posted
Yes it will but scuff first. (scuff between all coats) I would use a high build primer in the letters first to fill those big pores in the black walnut.
Before I gild, I use a flat hand sander over the mask to break the bond between the mask and letters.......otherwise, when you remove the mask you just might pull up some of the urethan in the letters along with the gold......not pretty.
Joe,
Makin Chip$ and Havin Fun!
-------------------- Joe Cieslowski Connecticut Woodcarvers Gallery P.O.Box 368 East Canaan CT 06024 jcieslowski@snet.net 860-824-0883 Posts: 2345 | From: East Canaan CT 06024 | Registered: Nov 2001
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posted
I'd recommend not using a really pointy cutter, like 45 or even 90 degrees, but a flatter one, like 120 degrees total angle. The flatter it is, the easier it is to get the gold right down into the Vee, and also the flatter it is, the better it reflects the light back out and the nicer and lighter the letters look.
I've seen, and done gilded vee letters where a 90 degree (or some call it 45 deg) cutter is used, and the shadowing effect from the angle & depth is a bit too prominent for my liking, aside from being a bit harder to gild.
Hope that helps-or did you know that already?
-------------------- "Stewey" on chat
"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Size, remove mask and then gild This of course requiers that the paint/clear is nonstick, either fully hardned, matte paint or buffed. Clearing gold schould be done with shell-lack
posted
I'll second, or third, or wherever I am in the queue on using real size. I've experimented with taking the shortcut of using the varnish and it's just not worth it. The window is unpredictable and short and adhesion isn't assured.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Im gonna disagree on LeFranc..just my opinion I like Rolco............ I have ordered routed signs from wholesaler and gilded them myself...
they finish a blank then mask and route then spray routed letters with 2 part primer... leave the mask on till letters are sized.... peel mask as soon as sizing is done then wait till proper tack is achieved finally..gild it works great
[ December 08, 2012, 12:25 AM: Message edited by: Michael Boone ]
posted
Another option regarding size is Luco. It's available in 4 oz containers so you won't have it sitting on your shelf if you don't do much gold. I've used it for years, works great. In a recent discussion on a pinstripers board, Luco was suprisingly the favored size over Rolco and LeFranc ( which never seemed to work correctly for me ). Oh, and I agree with everybody else, use the real size, shortcuts never seem to work.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
"Yes it will but scuff first. (scuff between all coats) I would use a high build primer in the letters first to fill those big pores in the black walnut. Before I gild, I use a flat hand sander over the mask to break the bond between the mask and letters.......otherwise, when you remove the mask you just might pull up some of the urethan in the letters along with the gold......not pretty. Joe," TNX, Ill try THAT!
-------------------- Stein Saether GullSkilt AS Trondheim Posts: 1183 | From: Trondheim Norway | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
The only substitute for size that has worked for me so far is PB resin epoxy, but it will work in only a couple ways and v-groove letters is not one of them. I've had great success with using an air brush to apply size.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
So what's gonna prevent the gold from sticking to the background after the mask is pulled? I guess I'm still stuck in doing it the way I learned. After it's all cleared and dry, I dust the background with talcum powder and blow it off. Then size with oil using a clean quill and gild when squeeky. I like the Rolco better than the LeFranc
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Ian and Vance got it right. All the incised letters on Roman buildings are very shallow. The flatter to flat you can make them the better. Otherwise the light will reflect In to the V cut, instead of Out to the reader. If the were just painted a color it would not be such a big deal. But gold does need to reflect the light to the reader. Hope all works well for you.
-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
That should do it! And yes, much easier to gild.
-------------------- Bill'n'Annie Davidson Heathcote, NSW, Aus. my Aussie wife, a Toohey's Old, my Holden Ute, Retired from the rat race! Posts: 309 | From: Heathcote, NSW, Australia | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Wayne, hope you have a 6mm chuck for that bit. Personally, I can't imagine a bit of sufficient quality to risk chucking up into my spindle at a $12.00 cost. Spindle bearings are too expensive to risk on a unbalanced bit of that size. There are several red flags on that deal. Rarely would you find a quality bit of solid carbide in that size. It would be much too brittle. (I'm thinking that description is wrong) I would venture to say that it isn't balanced, and besides that, it's a metric shaft. That bit will require you to really crank down the collet to get it tight, not good for a quality collet. You can buy a quality Onsrud 140 degree bit for $36.00 plus shipping with a half inch shaft that you can rely on to be balanced, sharp, quality material, and safe to use.
Please wear eye protection while using that the one you ordered. I would be surprised if that thing flew apart.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Ive used dozens of those 12 buck bits. they last and cut well. There is no imbalance in them. Those bits are being ground on the same machines used to make bits in the USA.
In fact that is where many of those machines came from. Our used machine tools went over there during the past 3 years of our economic destruction. I know this because I make graphics for a company that sends used machine tools over there.
The cutter shown the above link is not fully solid carbide. Only the cut edge is solid carbide. The rest is steel. I have a cutter of about that size used in my router bench.. It runs fine thankfully.
Also, a cutter that size would not be run at high speeds. Running in the low 4 figures will be plenty.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5274 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Thanks Joe This is one I used the Helmsman Spar Urethane on, circa 1987, laminated from western cedar 2x4's. They installed it with the log chains, which wouldn't have been my first choice. But then, today I would do the layout/copy differently too.
[ December 29, 2012, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
The metric shaft is still an issue. I wouldn't have a problem using one of those bits in a standard router, but I wouldn't think of chucking one up into my spindle without a metric collet. Even a range collet is risky. Broke several bits using a range collet.
I agree too, 120°
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I can testify about the 150 degree Gerber bit - I've used one on several v carved signs and really like it. Can't really comment on the 120 versus 150, all I can say is the 150 worked fine for me. I would suggest checking the angle though, as mine was about half a degree off, leaving ridges as the tool stepped down into the material.
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
I can testify about the 150 degree Gerber bit - I've used one on several v carved signs and really like it. Can't really comment on the 120 versus 150, all I can say is the 150 worked fine for me. I would suggest checking the angle though, as mine was about half a degree off, leaving ridges as the tool stepped down into the material.
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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posted
Thanks Graham. You're right, Dave. I checked it with a set of digital calipers; .236" for the Chinese metric one .248" for a standard one; a noticeable difference. Hand tightening would not hold the bit in place enough to let go and put a wrench on it. like it does normally, then I had to crank the collet down an extra turn or so to get it tight. Won't be getting anymore metric ones, although the listing DID say "1/4"". I'll get a 120° standard one next time.
The collet I use for 1/4" is from my 2.5hp PorterCable plunge router but it fits perfectly on the 3.25 hp PorterCable router on the ShopBot.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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