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Just found this while reading the news this afternoon,...brings back memories when corel was on 3 512k disks and signlab came on a single 5 and 1/2" 512k disk.,,,both programs needed all of 640k memory which was quite a bit back then,..I can remember having to rewrite my boot sequence to switch from windows 1 and corel ver. 1.1 to signlab by editing my config.sys and autoexec.bat files in order to use these programs. in todays terms that amounts to less than 1/10 of one percent of the memory needed to run the current versions of the same programs. My cell phone has more processing power than the $2000 intel 286 processor based pc I started with and the tiny 8 gb thumbdrive in my pocket has almost 9000 more megabytes than my first 20mb mfm hardrive which was about the size of a brick. Gerber 4b's were going for 10k back then and each font cost well over $500,...That first scanner cost me over $1500 and you damn near needed to know how to program in dos just to be able to use it in the first version of windows shown in the link above,....they called it windows 1 back in 1988 or 89 when I got my first pc and plotter
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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In 1988, we started out with $3000 for an Everex XT. A blazing 4.9hz, a 10mb hard-drive and a huge 13" monochrome-orange monitor. Dad bought it along with Peachtree Accounting for Mom to use for bookkeeping. She turned it on once. Turned it off and that was it. Presto! A $3000 paperweight.
We paid something like $2500 for a 300dpi b/w scanner and another $2000 for a b/w laser printer.
At the same time, we got 2 Everex 286 with 2mgs of ram and a 40mg hard-drive. It had Windows 2.1.
Dad shelled out another $1000 for a DOS program that could do text distortions. The only problem was you could only input coordinates. There was no WYSIWYG. It took the 286 about 20 to 30 minutes to crunch the numbers before the image would print out on the laser printer. And if it didn't look right, we had to do it all over again.
Right after that, we got Micrografx Designer and Corel Draw 1.1. MD was a waste but Corel really got things turned around for us. Watching the video tape that came with the disc was mesmerizing.
When we upgraded to a 386sx and Windows 3.1, I thought we were really cookin'.
Then there was the "hot-tip" plotter......
[ May 21, 2012, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
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The first "computer-aided design" course I took was a workshop at Memphis College of Art in 1988- they had a state of the art computer lab- Comadore Amiga computers, with updated graphic cards that would display an amazing 16 colors on the monitor instead of the standard 8 - the only way to "output" your creation was to "print" to a polaroid instamatic film- the print unit was roughly the size of a standard television set of the day with a small slot like the front of an instamatic camera-- the bad thing was, the printer was callobrated to 8 colors, you would get weird pictures if you tried to print out a design that used 16-- they also had a big computer that was used for animating, it would render 1 frame per hour (do the math, it takes 24 to 30 individual frames for each second of film)
-------------------- Michael Clanton Clanton Graphics/ Blackberry 19 Studio 1933 Blackberry Conway AR 72034 501-505-6794 clantongraphics@yahoo.com Posts: 1735 | From: Conway Arkansas | Registered: Oct 2001
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I bought my first 286 in 1986 to do the accounting for my Antique Automobile Restoration shop. I had some integrated software package like Lotus 123 that made my financials look pretty snappy. The bank was impressed. It really helped doing weekly payroll. The machine and black and white printer set me back $3650. It had a 20k hard drive and used the big floppys. The word processor was great. It sure beat the electric typwriter. Then I hired a woman to enter all of the data from the previous three years, but she made me take her to Vegas, before we began as a bonus. She had never been and I thought it was going to turn into some romance...not. We stayed at the Bourbon street for one night and played black jack all night. I came home with about $600 more than I had before I left with all expenses paid in cash. She worked for about a month after and did a super job with the books and as I recall, I paid her an additional $10 an hour. We had a fun time with all of the data. No romance, but she made it all worth it with her work. She finally finished grad school and married a friend of mine.
I kept the machine for years and just used it as a wordprocessor and payment calculator. Someone loaded some better math in it when I ran the Chevy store and it was a whiz at nailing payments and printing out various forms, when finance was too busy. It sat on my desk there for a couple of years. I probably retired it in 2002 and finally parked it out at the street. It was gone in ten minutes. Some kid probably thought he hit the jackpot. Naturally, I wiped the tiny hard drive clean.
I saw a gerber in about 1980 or so? I remember they were ridiculously expensive. I wanted one so bad, but never could scare up the gitas. A friend of mine a couple years ago tried to sell me his for $300, but I figured if I made it this far without having a vinyl cutter, then I was meant to not own one. Easier to just sub out any, rarely. no need for the space to have it or the inventory of vinyl.
I still have all of the data from all of the years I have owned a computer, here on this machine with the various hardrives and back ups. I probably can't access much of the real old stuff, but I never need to anyway. I did recently run a search for someone I sent a letter to years ago and the files came up. Amazing, how they have managed to evolve. I wonder what is next in 30 years? Probably no monitors and just some 3D field in front of us with a little computer you run with your mind. We live in a wild time. My dad, who died in 84 would be so amazed. I can just hear him asking why would we ever need something like this.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1552 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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$3000 for my first DOS system...soon after upgraded to Windows 3.11. That 14.4 dial up modem and a whopper of a bill from Compuserve for going WAY past the free hours.
Frankly, I miss those old systems. You got more done because you built them do do one thing well. These days a cell phone has more power but, as it was when Win 95 came out, there's all kinds of distractions at your disposal. Before solitare there was productivity.
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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1972 i re-enlisted in the air force. instead of them putting me back into the job i had when i enlisted in 65-69, they sent me to school in denver for 6 weeks to learn COMPUTERS!!!! yea 1972!!!! seems these things was big with the military in more ways then one. the computer had to be in a 1000 sq ft climate controlled space. to work in that room you had to wear silly white suits. communications with this computer was not direct. we had what they called "remotes". this was a IBM big arse typewriter with which we wrote requests from the computer. these went to the next room which was DATA KEY PUNCH. people sat there and made those 80 column punch cards. from there this card was sent to the card reader. you see em in carnivals now, they use as fortune telling game. then that info was relayed to the computer.........WHICH WAS a 64k memory that was stored on ISA DRUMS.........these they changed em out with a CRANE!!!! thats how big they were. this was the IBM 1050-2.
[ May 21, 2012, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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In 1972 I was offered school in computers ( punch cards ) was told this is the newest storage system they typed out all of our names in the group gave us each a card said that is what your name is in 1-s & 0-s punched out.
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I went to electronic technician Vocational school in 1965-66 and we spent a year on computer repair. We had a rudimentary computer on a 4x8 ft upright board with tubes. The instructor would insert bad components and you would have to be able to trouble- shoot it without actually touching or using test equipment- only by programing input. I then went to school for programing for a year- for-tran and bi-tran... then my life spun off in a different direction- till 20 years ago. It's a great life if you don't weaken. Gene
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I took Fortran IV programming in college in 1969 and wrote some programs on punch cards that went into IBM 360 and Xerox Sigma 7 computers at the college. I came close to buying a personal computer in 1979 when they were just coming out but couldn't imagine a scenario where it would actually help the sign business. About 1985, I bought an Apple IIe and GDS to go with the Signmaker IVA I purchased in 1984.
Twenty years ago, I was eyeballing a $100,000 design station my brother in law had at his slide design and duplicating company and he handed me a box with Corel 3 and told me it would do everything that fancy station would. I plunked down four grand for a 286 and loaded Corel. At the time, I couldn't interface with the Signmaker so I designed in Corel using the twenty two fonts I had in the Signmaker and then duplicated them on the Gerber machine for production.
Not long after that, I thought I'd hit the big time on the ability to make presentations because I did a rendering for a customer by using a B&W hand scanner on a color Polaroid and then dropping the sign design on top of that.
A while back, as I gazed at my shelves loaded with computer manuals and equipment, I mused, "I just want to build signs. Where did all this come from?" I've gone from not imagining a scenario to how a computer could be used in the sign business to likely purchasing a new computer this summer.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I worked at a wrap shop some 15 years ago where we sent the file to the printer at night, occasionally when I came to work in the morning, it was still spooling... no thank you... I will occasionally look at my Quadra 950 and chuckle at the little key that is still stuck in the slot, like it was a souped up hot rod that needed to be started with an ignition switch.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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i BOUGHT A gOOBER 4b IN '85 out of necessity. I had to find a way to feed my family using only one hand following surgery. The machine was $10,000 and the fonts were $285 each. I still don't know that I've seen a plotter that makes pounce patterns as nice and as fast as that old Goober. Their wheel was much nicer than the bounce up and down devices.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6713 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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From 1970 to 1989 I worked in the sales area of some big computer manufacturers. First mainframes (mostly 8 big machines but Honeywell had a weird 7 bit architecture) then minimcomputers (16 & 32 bit designs). I have lots of $$ tag stories. The one that comes to mind first is selling 1MB of memory to a major insurance company in 1981. They already had the minicomputer (size of a fridge) but there group life insurance business had grown like wildfire and they needed more memory to process claims faster and hang a few more terminals off of the mini. That 1MB of memory came on 8 boards (each about 20"x20") and a invoice for $41,000 (plus tax). Today a mega of memory on a thumb drive is worth less than a Washington (or a loonie here in the Great White North).
Seliing minis with terminals attached was a great field to be in in the 80's but when they started networking PCs together in the late 80's the business disappeared over a two year periord. I decided there was no future in selling iron and decided to retire in 89 at age 41. I lasted less than a month before the urge to start something got me off of the couch. Formed It's A Good Sign in late 89, bought a Anagraph system (for about $40,000) and started cranking out vinyl letters and logos. Still do it everyday but a lot of other methods are also used regularly. Routers, lasers and wide format printers handle about 1/2 of the projects that go through our shop now.
Now I tell stories about making signs to my old computer friends.
-------------------- Chuck Churchill, It's A Good Sign Inc. 3245 Harvester Rd, U-12 Burlington, Ont. Phone: 905-681-8775 Fax: 905-681-8945 Posts: 633 | From: Burlington, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have no "long time ago" tales about computers nor their use for making signs.
In grade 13, in high school, I did have a buddy who's older brother worked for IBM. His brother had a black Chevy convertible and would let him take it out for a spin, if we agreed to hand wash it for him for free!!! (Buddy and I figured that it was a pretty good deal!!)
I think I bought my first Commodore 64 around 1985?
BUT... in 1966, teaching in grade school to grade 6 kids, I was teaching them the binary numbering system, as a way to improve their understanding of arithmetic in the decimal numbering system we all know.
Little did I know that the binary numbering system would be or is the way computers work.
Little did I know I would be sitting here, typing on a wireless keyboard, with wireless mouse, looking at a 28" monitor and sending/receiving messages on a wireless network and wireless internet that can reach around the world!!!
Hell...little did I know that I would need to learn how to type!!! That was "girl's" work!
Sorry to hijack the post a bit...I love computers, try to keep up-to-date, and love remeniscing!!!
I'll tell ya'll about my first love, and my first car, some time in the future!!!
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
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I think the most useful course I took in high school 45 years ago was typing. My father did quite a bit of writing and I enjoyed it too, so I thought it would be good to learn to type. I had no idea how much typing I would do in life. I was ill the week we learned to touch type numbers and to this day, I have to glance at the keyboard when I enter numerals.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm in the same world as Harding. The most practical course I've ever taken was typing, but I missed the section on numbers also...probably taking a nap.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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i also took typing in 10th grade, 1960!!!!! our high school course choices was screwy. was 3 way to go. ACADEMIC, BUSINESS & GENERAL. never understood why TYPING was only for the BUSINESS course. when i finally went to college(1976) TYPING.......was how they wanted ALL THE WRITTEN reports and papers that you had to hand in. i remember how big time i was in 1960......mom bought me a ROYAL PORTABLE TYPEWRITER when i told her i was taking typing class.
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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youz forgets, i went ta hi skool in burgettstown PA........whatayaexpect?????????????????
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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My shop sits on the very spot where I hoed, pulled weeds, dug potatoes, cut okra, pulled corn chopped corn and picked peas and beans as a kid. Back then while I was sweating with a sore back and wearing blisters on my hands I would have never dreamed I would be operating a shop full of woodworking and metalworking tools, "Windows 7", CAD software, a plotter, a CNC router, emailing vector files and talking to people on an internet forum from thousands of miles away.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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ANNNND considering where you live..........THAT STUFF IS AMAZING))))))) they have internet there???? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA had to wayne, my across the street friend johnny shoup(ROOT-A-SEWER PLUMBING)has a farm in chipply. my sister-in-law and her cousins all live "down by the river" in SCOTTS FERRY!!!!! been there couple times, its like living the movie DELIVERANCE!!!!!!!
[ May 27, 2012, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I had to take typing in high shrewel; it was a requirement....either that, or home ec....can you imagine the "abuse" I would've had to endure back then? Nowadays,well, never mind........ I am surely glad I took typing though.
Spent a good many years in the sign business, doing hand lettering, before the first 4B came out. We figured we couldn't afford one, so after looking around, we came upon the 'Arty'. They told us it was the same as the 4B, but the outside case was different. It was made by Compugraphic, the company that made the font cartridges for the 4B. They had some kind of reciprocal agreement, where they sold Gerber the fonts, in exchange for them being able to sell the machines under their name. It used the same fonts, but held 21 instead of the 6 or 8 the Gerber held....and was somewhat cheaper to lease/buy; so that's what we did.
It was a real workhorse, and never really gave us any problems, and like said above made great pounce patterns. Or, if you had MANY of one thing to cut......We had a job one time, doing a bunch of graph boards for a hospital. They needed about 4,000(!) 3/4" red dots to use on these graphs; so we just programmed a bunch of stuff and hit the Start button, when we went home that nite. Next morning, there was a big pile of red dots on the floor, all neatly cut.
I still have that thing, packed away, and I'll betcha it still works. But man, have things evolved since then!!
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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What David, said with the punch cards. We were doing it in 67-68 at RCA Victor engineering and building compressed air computers as well. Oh' well..?
During my tool maker days...
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Made me think. I upgraded my MacBook pro this week to a 500gb hard drive and to 8 gigs of ram from 4. Cost me about 350 dollars incl installation. Back in about 1996 . I bought 4 MB ram and it cost me nearly as much then. I wonder what size computers will our descendents be using in twenty years.
-------------------- Kevin Gaffney Artistik Signs Kinnegad County Westmeath Ireland 044-75187 kevingaffney@eircom.net Posts: 628 | From: Ireland | Registered: Oct 2003
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