name: Rosy Beverley email: rnbeverley@aol.com phone: 336-527-1962 address: 122 Terrace Avenue city: Elkin 28621 state: North Carolina TellUsAboutYourTown: Elkin is a small town of a little under 5,000. We are in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains and in the center of the new, vibrant wine industry. As we see more tourist coming into our area it seems a great time to create something really special in our Historic Downtown Elkin. Thank you. Rosy Comments:
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Ben, do you respond to these or throw it out here to see if anyone's interested? My thinking is that if no one wants to take on the responsibility of a Walldog meet, the town might still be interested in hiring some dogs to paint a mural. There are some money/ethics issues here that might serve us well to clarify.......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4116 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Elkin is about 30 minutes west of here,..It would be a great place for a spring or even a late summer/early fall event,....it's smack dab in the middle of the famous "Tobacco Road" moonshine route,....The Famous Junior Johnson of Nascar fame lives nearby,....There's river that runs through the middle of town and separates Elkin from it's sister city Jonesville. The town sits at the foot of Fancy gap in the Blue Ridge Mtns.
Edited to add it would be very tempting to just go sell my personal services to this town but then Sonny has raised an excellent point. Where would one draw the line here??????
[ April 26, 2011, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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What we have been doing is contacting people in the area directly if we think they might be interested. Ben has a database of names from past meets and he just does a search of the area. If we don't have anyone close by, we throw it out on these boards to see if anyone wants to contact them. If there is any better way of doing this, we are all ears. We really don't want to be in charge of "passing out jobs" to people but I think if the locals contact them and see what the situation is, it would be a better option than having people 3 states away try to organize something. That is part of the problem...there really ARE no rules, we are just hoping that people do the right thing. Ideally, you would attempt to do a walldog event first if it was feasable but if the city only wants to spend a small amount, then maybe just a small crew of walldogs could do a mural or two for them and get paid for their efforts. I guess if we ever get word that people are taking advantage of this, we will have to rethink how we do it.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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That being the case I can offer up the effort to contact these individuals on the behalf of the Walldogs and let them decide what they want.I go up to Elkin about twice a month to play bluegrass with a couple of buddies there just across the river,....Its not really that far out of the way if they are actually ready to foot the bill for a meet,..ain't but one way to find out and that is to ask,....I might not be the one you guys want to represent the group as a whole but I'm here and willing if no one objects,.....
[ April 26, 2011, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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(edited to say I was responding to Jane's post and Timi slipped one in ahead of me)
Those were my thoughts exactly - anyone can call himself a Walldog and offer his services to a town, but if he's unscrupulous or incompetent, it can make the rest of us look bad. Additionally, any Walldog can claim some credibility by what's been accomplished by others, whether they participated or not. I used pictures of previous events to convince the city of Suwanee to contribute toward expenses at the Sign Circus meet, even though some of the projects I showed them I never hit a lick on. (hope that was OK - they ended up getting way more than they paid for)
Since the whole Walldog concept is always evolving (and getting better) the "rules" seem to evolve accordingly. Most of us enjoy the freedom from rigid structure - it's part of what is so compelling about this Letterhead movement. On the other hand, as hosts of the Walldog website, your butts are more or less on the line because you're a town's first contact.
And what about compensation? Let's say Timi and I run over to Elkin, nail down the gig and make a slew of money (ready, Timi?) Is it fair to the other people who coulda, woulda, shoulda gotten a piece of the action? Then again, if we keep it just in a giant Walldog format, somebody might miss a golden opportunity for a nice mural project.
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We totally agree Sonny! Because there are no rules, it makes it tough! I don't feel our "butts are on the line" as really we just forward info on to whoever is in the area. I'm sure there are some who might take advantage and try to scoop up what really isn't theirs. And I heard through the grapevine of one town who was "hoodwinked" by a guy who SAID he was a walldog, got paid, did some pretty sad murals, and skipped town. It's all out there...we try to keep everyone in the loop and keep 'em all happy but I am also sure there are some who will always be unhappy with the system. I just don't know what other way to handle it!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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edited to add Jane slipped in a post here before I responded to Sonny here,...
Sounds Like a plan Sonny,hehehehe we could showem all them fancy pictures of past meets and say we did them,...then offer them a price for what it'd cost to get just you and me there and compare it to the cost of sponsoring a meet,..this sounds like an easy sell,...hehehehehe
The above is a sarcastic sic joke for those who don't really know me,....all joking aside,... It would seem to be most practical to contact the above individual and then see if there is the possibility and or support from the town in order to actually footing the bill for an event and or as Sonny said the bill for a couple of individuals,..let the client decide and don't try for a hard sell here just some options,...by the way it would be nice if they ask about some potential numbers here to have some finite info from the folks who have hosted past meets, just in case,...
[ April 26, 2011, 05:45 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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For clarification, even though technically we do get the contact message first, really we aren't the first contact. Unless we are in the area, we forward it on. What Ben does is try to get a list of walldogs that have attended past meets by contacting past meet hosts, If the host kept a record of who showed up (and most do) we add it to our database. Then when someone contacts us through the site, the first thing he does, is look through that database for the closest walldogs, sometimes 1, sometimes 8, it depends on the area and how many dogs are close by. He then forwards that message on to those walldogs. He doesn't even respond to the city, he just forwards it on. Since it only gets forwarded to those on the database, people who have been at meets and are close by, are the first to know.
IF no one is close by or no one gets back with that inquiring town, we THEN post it on the forums. Now if someone has a way to improve that system or a better idea altogether, then that would be most welcomed.
We are totally cool with adopting a different system for forwarding on contacts from the site, as long as most agree it is a better way of doing it and also it doesn't put an additional burden on Ben as he has alot on his plate already. We feel the way it works now is fair and is also easy.
I'm sure someone could take advantage of the way this works, but personally, I am hoping that one or two bad apples won't force us as a group to create an environment where we have to turn into some super secret organization, where some appointed grand poobah delegates who can host what meet.
I always fear that because we do host and maintain the site, some might assume that we are trying to be that "poobah" and control who gets what message. We try be very open about what we are doing so hopefully everyone knows that this is far from the truth.
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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AND if anyone want to host a meet (or even do several murals) there are MANY past hosts who you can call and ask for info! I would be willing to bet that ANY of them would be a great resource for "Now what?"
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Well I just got off the phone with Rosy,...she was just by chance on her way out the door to a meeting at which she was going to propose the idea to the powers that be to host the event and was very thankful for the timing of my call. She seemed genuinely interested and thought the idea of hosting a meet was "wonderful" to quote her. Now we wait and see how actually interested the folks are once the concept of actually paying for and sponsoring an event sets in,...hopefully a "now what" Phone call is in my near future,...
hopefully to be continued,....
[ April 26, 2011, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I live a stones throw from Elkin, have customers in the Elkin, Jonesville area. I haven't slapped paint on a wall in years, but would welcome the chance to do so, should the occasion arise. Any way I can be of help, don't hesitate to call on me. Peace, Don
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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There's nothing wrong with contracting a mural having walldogs you've met at meets (ones you enjoy working with) outside of having a walldog festival. Consider having only a couple festivals a year and contract the rest. That's how I see it.
If you find a town who is not sure of having a festival, but do want 1, 2, 3 or so murals, jump on that puppy. Pass out some numbers to see where their thinking is. I tell folks I can do a mural for 10 large. The subject matter, details, height above ground level, surface and size dictate what you get for that amount. In the end if the factors are weighed and the result is a mural of 10' by 20' on brick with moderate detail 3 feet off the ground and they want it twice that size then the amount is now 20 large. I'm finding the quicker I can state a price the better.
If they agree to say 10 large and want to see what they get for that,then you need to get ernest money down before you embark on a sketch and then make it worth your while. A lot needs to be explained in regards to surface prep and wall selection. It should be noted that when a building is torn down and a brick wall is exposed that is somewhat ugly and crying for a mural -- this is a poor choice -- because interior parting walls where usually constructed of a poorer grade brick and not worthy of our efforts. That is the tip of the iceberg and there is much, much more to be learned about site selection, staging, prep and paint before you sell a mural job. The purpose of our involvement in the walldog movement is to prepare and inform our ranks so they can benefit by it all and gain good worthwhile and satisfying work.
It would be awesome to get a festival going in the southern U.S. states -- especially as you said, Tim -- in the spring or fall when us Yankees are throwin' quilts on our beds. I would recommend that if you're involved you research the annual weather patterns of the interested community and decide on some dates when it is least likely to rain. I would also make sure the community is equipped insurance wise. If the ingredients of it all are a go, make sure you get 10 - 15 large to coordinate it all.
And, and ... make sure if the town is right, they get in touch with the coordinator of the International Walldog Museum, Kristen Arbogast in Pontiac, IL as she is a sweety, smart and a wealth of information. She's there in our behalf and can sell any community that's on the fence that they better get in line. She has all the facts figures and what nots to seal the deal.
You can do this fellas. Hunker down and make it so.
[ April 27, 2011, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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Thanks for the info Bill,..I am going to pitch an event until it is evident that they can only afford something less,..that is what the contact asked for,...it may however have to be somewhat smaller than the ones I have read about and attended so i suggested a limit on registrations in case the budget is limited. It would really be nice to have the walldogs come down south here and get a true taste of our southern hospitality,..so lets bleed this cow for all it's worth before we decide to downgrade the venue,....
edited to add one of my first suggestions was to plan at least a year or more until the event when there will be an opening that won't conflict with an event that has already been scheduled
[ April 27, 2011, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The useage of the term 'Walldog' should be limited to organized meets . . . in my personal opinion.
Without rules, we (as a group) sure can't stop people from (perhaps) ruining the reputation that many of us have worked hard to earn. I see 'Walldogs' being used freely outside of organized meets now and I'm not sure that's proper since the phrase was first used to describe a meet . . .
This useage of the qword 'Walldog' doesn't benefit the VOLUNTEER GROUP . . . Soliciting walldog-type work is one thing if done for pay - but I'm a Walldog - and I don't see any pay headed my way - or any other Walldog, for that matter.
Let's say some divisive issue comes up and hard feelings occur between town and 'Vendor-Walldog' . . . Who wants to answer for that as it would hurt our work - present AND past????
But without rules . . . that can easily happen. I just wouldn't be the one to do it . . . doesn't feel right in my bones. It's riding the reputation of others . . . and that's no better than taking some other shop's work and putting it in your own portfolio. Again, in my opinion . . .
Take our Lincoln Highway project . . . That's being done for small towns by ShawCraft Sign Co. - and I'm also a Walldog. Would I be right in promoting it outside of a meet as a "Walldog" project.
Nope. Unethical . . . disrepectful of group-work.
Throw the daggers and shoot me against the wall . . . but that's how I feel.
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jay I'm not disputing what you say but as an old time free hand wall artist who was weaned off of swing stages for the first twenty or so years I practiced the sign trade on walls and billboards traveling from town to town across about 5 states I kinda have a different definition of the term wall dog. I always think back to the first article I read in the Smithsonian magazine back in the seventies about Harley Warrick and his definition of men who went from town to town painting walls for tobacco and beverage companies for a living.Thats what I did for RJR tobacco for over two decades at motorsports facilities across the southeast. It wasn't easy and paying the dues and by no means an easy task. I can honestly say I have been and will be a wall dog by trade and it is something I hold dearly. It is an aspect of the sign trade I have been practicing since my first week on the job as a sign painter and repeated hundreds of times over the years. It isn't something i went to a meet and or trade festival somewhere halfway across the country for a couple of weekends and decided I was member of some exclusive group. it doesn't bother me much one way or another what folks call themselves and or their group. I know down in my heart and have hung off enough parapets to realize this is something no group or individual can ever take away from me,no disrespect intended to the people who call themselves wall dogs intended here. As for unethical intentions I will continue to try and promote the group as a whole and reserve my own financial agenda for a last resort here. I'll git down off my stump here and let ya'll folks have at my opinion,...
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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You, my talented good friend, have earned that moniker . . . tenfold. I'm a 'poser' next to you . . .
I'm also saying YOU should take it as a personal job if you don't want to organize and run a meet . . . Your portfolio and experience would be enough to sell it for you.
I just cringe a little when I see walldogs working on projects sometimes promoted as 'The Walldogs' group efforts - and they aren't meet-related. I've been part of them - and I'm not sure I ever feel right about it.
But that's just me . . .
With that being the case, anybody can say they are part of the group and who'd stop them? That could hurt the lot of us by hurting our reputations for past successes. So what about when it IS members of 'The Walldogs' doing non-meet projects? Like I said, I've done some and I still don't feel right about that - and that's hypocritical on my part.
That's why 'rules' work . . . and why 'no rules' can be touchy.
I'm a member of "The Walldogs" . . . but each of us might define that differently. Good conversation as always . . .
-------------------- Jay Allen ShawCraft Sign Co. Machesney Park, IL jallen222@aol.com http://www.shawcraft.com/
"The object of the superior man is truth." -Confucius Posts: 1285 | From: Machesney Park, IL, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The client was from my understanding wanting to inquire about possibly hosting a meet and until I find out otherwise thats the way I intend to present myself as a representative of the group,...who knows it might just happen,...lets hope I don't have to resort to selling my personal services until there is no other option,..anything else I would consider as unethical
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'll agree with what you say, Jay. I like the idea of an organized meet complete with veteran walldogs such as Tim and rookies who haven't been told how to dunk a brush and tap it along the inside of their bucket. They've never been taught that you need to use all sides of the brush, etc., etc. Most importantly is the interaction with the "the Walldogs" and the community -- that's the magic.
But it's not always possible to have a meet. Some communities don't understand all that's involved. We don't even understand all that's involved. With no rules or guidelines the whole thing is in constant flux. It just keeps evolving mostly for the better.
By also having an organized meet, participants become familiar with other participants, friendships start and before long you realize there's a pool of walldogs who can join in on occasional jobs that might come along. So if a community isn't up for a full tilt meet, let's not shut the door on them, unless they're jerks. Instead let's get a walldog we're familiar with to see the thing through.
[ April 29, 2011, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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