posted
Placed order with Gemini the other day, order came in and I went thru the task of getting letters loose from their tightly sucked plastic coffin. I unrolled the pattern and laid it out and noticed it looked different, was not clean and the points where I drill for studs was barely visible but to help me they took a sharpie and hand drew sight lines around these drill holes. the pattern was also not even on the paper.
after drilling out all the holes i did notice the letters were not as good and straight as they could have been but it worked. paint quality was also inferior as it seemed to not have a good coat on it.
I reached down to throw away all bubble wrap and on the box was stamped MADE IN MEXICO...AWESOME!
Has anyone else noticed this. I have never in all my years ever seen such on a Gemini box.
[ March 17, 2011, 05:29 AM: Message edited by: bruce ward ]
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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I had a $7k order with them in Nov...came in painted wrong..and paint quality sucked, some flaking off at the intersection of colors! some letters were warped and a few broken...I wasn't impressed at all. It was my clients decision to use them. I drove by the main sign I did with them and noticed the logo is cracked....of course I'm sure some punkass kid thru an iceball at it when it was 20 below but still...not impressed with gemini letters.
-------------------- Karyn Bush Simply Not Ordinary, LLC Bartlett, NH 603-383-9955 www.snosigns.com info@snosigns.com Posts: 3516 | From: Bartlett, NH USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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The last order from Gemini came thru looking like this, check out the tops of the E's and T's. Complaint never went any where.
Recent Gemini propaganda mailing spoke about their opening a plant in Mexico and thier quality! Bring back Spanjer Bros.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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It's not like there are hundreds of companies out there making formed letters to force them to cut prices to be competitive.
They're a main player, just cutting costs at the expense of quality.
It's just greed.
-------------------- Eric Elmgren ericsignguy@comcast.net A & E Graphic Signs Park Ridge, IL "The future isn't what it used to be" -Yogi Berra Posts: 192 | From: PARK RIDGE, ILLINOIS | Registered: Aug 2009
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Very Sad State of Affairs.. I would have refused those Letters Mort. I hate to say this but if Gemini Insists on Out sourcing I may have to find a New Supplier.
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DeBekker Would have refused the letters but customer was in a hurry and said use them any way.
Out source and I will not deal with them, Support American workers.
-------------------- Len Mort Signmaker1.com 11 Juniper Drive Millbury, MA 508-865-2382 "A Good Business Sign, is A Sign of Good Business"(1957) Posts: 811 | From: Millbury, Ma | Registered: Dec 2006
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Ditto on what everyone else has said. I have a job lined up, but not from Gemini. My customer will be mad as a hatter will I tell him this. Maybe our old friend Karma will pay the folks at Gemini a visit.
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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Wow, so sad. Gemini headquarters is only 45 minutes south of me, and I've watched them grow from a small business to what it is now. I know they put a lot of money into some high priced, high tech machinery to grow their company. And they just purchased a foundry a year or two ago. It may be that they bit off more than they could chew, as far as overhead. It happens. I can't believe Gemini is letting bad product go out to customers. That's a bad sign. No pun intended!
-------------------- Kathy Weeks Weeks-End Signs & Graphics Lake Elmo, Minnesota Posts: 248 | From: Lake Elmo, Minnesota | Registered: Mar 2009
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Perhaps they need to think about how much they are spending on mailing surveys every time you turn around, then sending 2nd & 3rd copies if you don't respond in the timeframe they think you should.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
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Mort those are crap, this is first time I've gotten a bad product from them, that I can recall. I'm very disappointed and would like to see a rep come on here and tell us whats up and try not to add any fluff to it.
Gemini rocks! theres no one to compare them too....except now I'm beginning to wonder. what other companies are out there?
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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My last order didn't appear to be any different than normal. After seeing Lenny's letters I may just do a drive by and gander a second look. BTW I can say the sign Lenny's posting about doesn't show that at the normal viewing distance. It doesn't excuse that quality either.
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I just want to say that I recently ordered some cut out 1/4" painted acrylic letters from Gemini and they came in perfect. The pattern was a little off on a word in script and the thin stroke cracked when we tried to remove it to straighten it out. I called the order desk and they replaced the letters immediately at no charge. I never knew it but even if you break them during installation they are covered by the warranty. They also got the paint color match identical on the replacement letters. If not the letters would have stuck out like a sore thumb. We have dealt with Gemini for 30 years and I honestly have to say they have always gone above and beyond in quality and service. I hope that never changes.
-------------------- Lou Pascuzzi www.economysigns.com Fine Hand Lettering since 1973 Danbury, Ct 203-748-4580 "IOAFS" Posts: 341 | From: Danbury, Ct | Registered: Feb 2000
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They're still great at casting bronze and aluminum plaques. They've always laser cut everything perfectly. As I become familiar with their products and practices I grow increasingly impressed.
Their annual mailing says the Mexican operation is the best they can do to keep from manufacturing in China like their competition and it helps shorten shipping time.
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yesterday when I was ordering some letters, I inquired about the outsourcing to Mexico. I was told that the only thing done there is making metal letters involving welding.
-------------------- The SignShop Mendocino, California
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus Posts: 6712 | From: Mendocino, CA. USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I hope that Bruce's experience is an aberration rather than a new company trend for Gemini.
I have been buying from them for over 30 years and have been happy 99% of the time. On the few occasions they messed up (no one bats a thousand) they fixed the problem.
I think one of the marks of a well-run company is not whether mistakes happen, but whether they are properly addressed when they do. If there is, somewhere in Gemini's system, an unqualified production employee, or a badly placed production supervisor, or a quality assurance inspector who has reached his 'level of incompetence' (The Peter Principle), enough complaints and returns may smoke them out.
Something I have learned from the companies I have worked for in the past ten years is that if substandard work goes out the door, and there is no negative feedback from the customer, a shop owner or supervisor will assume that the level of quality of the product was acceptable. And the person making the call to let the product go out will be more likely to let inferior product go out again. By rejecting bad goods and demanding replacement, I believe we can play a part in keeping standards high.
.........
Many Americans believe that out-sourcing and off-shoring are bad for the American economy. Is this really true? I honestly don't know. I have heard arguments on both sides of this issue that seem to make sense. Economics is not my strong suite. (Many of the ideas in The World Is Flat: A Brief History of the Twenty-first Century by Thomas Friedman seem to make sense. But again, I am no economist. Often, I am just happy I can spell correctly most of the time).
One thing is clear to me, though: If it's stamped "Made in USA" it is not a guarantee of high quality any more than "Made in China" is a guarantee of poor quality. When Chinese manufacturers produce goods for American companies, where do they get their specs? If the specs given to them are demanding, or lax, the product will reflect this, will it not? In the end, who is responsible for high or low quality?
The company I work for produces a lot of ADA signage. In many cases, specs from the architect are very demanding. They insist on certain materials, paint, manufacturing processes, etc. In addition they ask for prototypes. If we follow the specs closely, we generally give them the product, at the quality level, that they require. On occasion our stuff gets rejected and we have to do it over. This is an incentive to not make the same mistake twice.
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've also used them forever, and there has been a time or two when the quality was less than expected. I was usually able to get away with it as is, but didn't like it. The problems were usually what Mort showed. 90% of the time they been great. But I've never been real happy with their patterns (they just don't seem to have the eye for spacing) and often make my own. I will say that on the last job I did I got some Old English formed letters and when the letters came the "T" did not match the downloadable font that I had used to sell the job, and the customer almost refused the job because of it. The "T" that was actually sent was actually appropriate to the font and I convinced the customer that it was OK, but what a pain. I called Gemini and that afternoon they called back, sent me the corrected font and said it would be changed on the download too. They better stay on top of it, with all the routers out their doing your own dimensional letters is a viable option, even if they're not formed plastic but painted PVC or HDU.
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I think I will forego gemini on any more fabricated metal and just use ussign. The quality was just not there I was not impressed. After installing the letters and looking down the perspective of them they were all cocked and jumbled, this will not been seen by anyone else but a sign guy would notice
I as well as anyone wish that quality would return to America as it once was. Thats when everyone was busy and had a job. I'm sick and tired of cheap products EVERYWHERE! Cheap products patch quality fixes. I have found myself actually breaking hand tools like vise grips and the handles of screwdrivers actually letting go of the screwdriver part, it's ridiculous.
We have become a disposable nation. I blame this in part on the strain of the employer and company owner having to dish out taxes, insurance and other annoying chunks of money to get things going. I also blame greed for money.
This walmart attitude has to stop
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
I've always made my own patterns for letters, never trusted anyone elses. It's pretty easy, pen plot it on paper, make up a batch of short studs with points ground on one end, place paper over pink styrofoam (the harder the styro the cleaner the hole), guide the letters above the outline using a carpenters square aligned with the bottom edge, and press in. I do at least 3 letters at a time, sometimes their alphabet doesn't quite match mine, T's A's S's esp.
-------------------- Eric Elmgren ericsignguy@comcast.net A & E Graphic Signs Park Ridge, IL "The future isn't what it used to be" -Yogi Berra Posts: 192 | From: PARK RIDGE, ILLINOIS | Registered: Aug 2009
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PS. don't drill so many holes. If a 15" aluminum letter only needs 3 or 4 studs, a much lighter formed plastic letter sure don't need 6 or more.
-------------------- Eric Elmgren ericsignguy@comcast.net A & E Graphic Signs Park Ridge, IL "The future isn't what it used to be" -Yogi Berra Posts: 192 | From: PARK RIDGE, ILLINOIS | Registered: Aug 2009
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I prefer to make my own drilling patterns, too.
I do it the old way. Lay them out on blank paper with the 3-inch studs in the back, then mark around each stud with a pencil. I line up the bottoms of the straight letters with the bottom of the paper. Sometimes I have used a square like Eric suggests, but usually I just sight along the letters from both ends to make sure the bottoms are on a straight line. This method allows me to screw studs in just once and I have been able to make patterns in the field, if necessary, on a sidewalk or in a hallway. I have done so many patterns this way over the past 30 years that it goes very fast.
Everyone has their method for this, of course. I agree that Gemini patterns are low quality. When I'm given one I usually throw it away. I used to try to cut them apart and tape them back together. But after doing that so many times I decided they not worth the hassle of trying to fix.
-------------------- Brad Ferguson See More Signs 7931 Wornall Rd Kansas City, MO 64111 signbrad@yahoo.com 816-739-7316 Posts: 1230 | From: Kansas City, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Even when ordering "standard" letters from Gemini, I always send over MY pattern for mounting.That way all of the letters are kerned correctly etc. I don't have to waste an hour making a pattern etc. Still costs the same.
-------------------- Nikki Goral Image Advantage Signs 4050 Champeau Road New Franken, WI 54229 920-465-4500 "Finish every day and be done with it. Tomorrow is a new day."-Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 928 | From: New Franken, WI (East Green Bay) | Registered: Jun 2007
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