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Is anyone else having problems? We just had a pretty good customer in and his 4 year old sign has had the aluminum peel back, "start flapping in the wind" (his discription) and then the sign flew off the posts. We DID have some high winds but that shouldn't have caused the material to delaminate, right? What is going on with our materials!!! We trust our distributors to provide good stuff, they get it from where they think is a good source but WE are the ones who have to explain why our signs are falling apart!! We do a great job of sealing the edges with epoxy and paint, we do everything the right way! I know this cutomer would like us to replace this sign for him at no cost...well the sign IS 4 years old. I told him we could give him a discount on a new sign but even at that, it's not OUR fault. Why are WE the one who has to give the discount!?! Luckily he is a carpenter/builder and I used the old "Well, you know how YOUR wooden materials are changing and holding up" and he seemed to get that but still....
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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We DID seal the edges with EPOXY and then paint. We chose the material as we were assured it was stable! Why else would they sell it as an outdoor material? The catalog says "a sturdy exterior-grade plywood core"...sounds good to me. We have used it for years and now all of a sudden...! You can be assured we learned our lesson and will not use it again! My POINT is why do we as sign professionals have to be the testing ground. Why can't we get stable materials to sell to our customers and not have them fail and we are left with egg on OUR faces. Do you think if I call my distributor and complain they will give ME anything? I'm not mad at the distributors, I know they are in the middle too, it's just FRUSTRATING!! ...and I'm venting!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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I stopped using both plastic and aluminum clad plywood 10 years ago. I got excited about it when it was a new material, but it sure got old fast.
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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So much of 'today's hot setup' stuff is just crap. We've got to quit letting ourselves be victimized by these companies trying to reinvent the mousetrap.
I ran into it with Trovicel, a Sintra wannabe that faded out quickly; and with Scooterboard, a masonite product that doesn't hold up and has a coating that nothing sticks to.
I'm sticking with the tried and true products.
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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Not only did it delaminate, but we had signs that had spots on them that looked like rust holes. We only figured that the glue, or some other evil chemical, was eating the aluminum. Should we doubt the integrity of all Laminators products? Will the maddness ever end? I'm telling you,sell the sign insurance. I'm sure there is a disclaimer that let's us off the hook. If not, I can add one.
-------------------- Tom & Kathy Durham House Springs, MO Posts: 654 | From: House Springs, MO | Registered: Apr 1999
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But the sign insurance only guarantee that the sign is spelt correctly and the color is pretty close! NOW what!?!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Jane, I feel your pain. I had to eat a bunch of signs I made with pre-painted MDO that my supplier told me was "ready-to-letter".
Four of the signs were on top of a gas dock at the lake and when I went out to inspect my customer's complaints, we were showered with tiny white paint flakes blowing off the signs. It was like snow in July - very surreal. My supplier did give me a 100% rebate on all the sheets I had bought, but it still left me to replace the crap and try to regain credibility with anyone I had sold it to.
But what really ticked me off was the supplier kept selling this junk for several months after my fiasco. No telling how many others had the same problem - why do they do this to us?
Anybody know a good lawyer? I smell class-action lawsuits.......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4115 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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1. The reason these products are failing is because of the prep work
2. You are the only company that has reported any problmes with our materials ....that's what your gonna hear when you complain. If your distributor refuses to back you on this, DROP THEM!
Dont worry about suing, you don't have enough money or time. I would file a complaint with the distributor and if they don't help drop them. not another dime for the rest of your working days. Too many distributors are professional a$$kissers that dare scold their product manufacturers.
I don't use the stuff because i have seen it peel off sign like a banana along with omega board
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
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The real pizzer of the whole deal, is after all the hassle you have to go thru with the customer AND the company, they tell you "we'll replace the product".
Who's going to compensate me for all the time I had invested in the project?
Early December, I had a ballast go out in a lighted sign. Many of these are now cheaply made in China or Mexico, or the cheapo electronic ones, that don't hold up either. I had to get my helper, go out in the cold, take the old ballast out & send it back to the manufacturer ( my supplier no longer replaces them directly). Then, when the new ballast came in, had to repeat the process over again. That's 2 trips, over a week's delays, and all the time involved. No, they did not cover the labor involved!! What if I'd have had to rent a boom truck??? BULL!!!
-------------------- Dale Feicke Grafix 714 East St. Mendenhall, MS 39114
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me." Posts: 2963 | From: Mendenhall, MS | Registered: Apr 1999
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This talk about "Dibondlike" products delaminating has me concerned. I usually go with Dibond (which I’ve never had a problem with), but occasionally use a product called PolyMetal, a thermoplastic core with aluminum faces like Dibond. What is the best way to seal the edges of this type product to help deter delamination ? If epoxy, what kind ?
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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I needed to place an order today, so this post couldn't come at a better time. We would have used Lustreboard on this upcoming project, but after what Jane encountered and after Durham's story, I thought why would I need to be stupid.
So then I ordered a sheet of MDO, which I rarely use, and the supplier said he had a sheet, prepainted and ready for vinyl, so I said sounds good.
Then I read Sonny's post and got back on the phone and said I want to change that order opting for unpainted MDO. He said all he had was prepainted or preprimed. So is there a problem with preprimed, because that's what I ordered. Shoot what's a person to do. Frustrating.
-------------------- Bill Diaz Diaz Sign Art Pontiac IL www.diazsignart.com Posts: 2107 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Dec 2001
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pre-primed MDO still needs to be prepped. Use some PPG DX330 or equivalant wax and grease remover to wash any contaminates then scuff with a red scotchbrite pad to give the surface some 'tooth'
you should be ok after that.
I still prefer unpainted
[ March 10, 2011, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Jerry VanHorn ]
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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We've had more than one Lusterboard sign delaminate. One was a beautiful cutout sign with raised panels. We thought we were go beyond what was necessary by sealing all the cut edges with West Sytem Epoxy. Less than a year later they all came apart. We had signs with faces peeling off in full sheets. The distributor just said it wasn't his product and we must not have bought it from him. Well, we haven't bought anything from him since.
-------------------- Lou Pascuzzi www.economysigns.com Fine Hand Lettering since 1973 Danbury, Ct 203-748-4580 "IOAFS" Posts: 341 | From: Danbury, Ct | Registered: Feb 2000
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Lusterboard failure within a year here too. Aluminum sheet peeled almost completely off and was flapping in the wind. Total junk.
Also had a 10ft. sheet that we had to cut in half. The plys were not glued together and there was about a 4'x2' hole in the center. We glued in together ourselves. Neither the manufacturer or vendor helped in any way with either.
-------------------- Amy Brown Life Skills 101 Private Address Posts: 3502 | From: Lake Helen, FL, USA | Registered: Feb 2001
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-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Other than the DiBond like materials, I've had nothing but bad luck with aluminum or plastic over anything. Everything I did in NuAlum a few years back, I replaced at my own cost.
Did I seal the edges to their specifications? No ..... they had some sort of a cap that was fine n' dandy if you were trying to seal straight lines, but I seldom do anything square or rectangular. The one that failed the worst was a double sded sign for a bait shop with a bass coming out of the top. How do you seal that?
I've had relatively good luck with Olympic MDO, but it's difficult to get it raw. I don't trust either their primers or paints, so we just take it off & start over if we have to.
Vance, I've never seen DiBond, AluPanel, Alucobest or any of that type of material delaminate.
-------------------- Rodger MacMunn T.R. MacMunn & Sons C.P.207, Sharbot Lake, ON 613-279-1230 trmac@frontenac.net Posts: 472 | From: Sharbot Lake, Ontario | Registered: Nov 2003
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I think it's up to signmakers and business owners to do their own due diligence, research and exercise a little critical thinking when choosing what products they use in their shops.
You've got to test this stuff for yourself before letting run free in the wild.
Aluminum with a plywood core should send up red flags immediately, simply because of the difference of materials in the product and thermal expansion rates.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I'm with Rodger. If you want a product that will last, stick with good MDO. IMHO, anything else is just a crap-shoot.
I'm lucky enough to have a distributor that still stocks, cuts, routers and delivers Olypanel's Signal MDO.
Now I just need to find a quality paint that lasts as long as the MDO
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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I too went thru the "delamination blues". Had to replace signs that were a little over a year old. Luckily my customers were longtime/loyal and mellow. Arrrrgh!
-------------------- Rich Stebbing RichSigns Rohnert Park CA 707-795-5588 Posts: 755 | From: Rohnert Park, CA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I've always stuck with DiBond or Alumalite. The cheaper alternatives were tempting, but I decided they are cheaper for a reason. Never had any delamination with either one. After seeing this topic, I guess paying a little more was good insurance. Getting decent MDO here is also a problem.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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Ain't seen decent MDO down here since early 90s, I don't touch MDO with a 10' pole
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
posted
Several more customers have called complaining about this issue. These Signs were done in the late 06 - 07 time period. I called Laminators Inc and left a message hoping to get some answers. We will see if they call. One of these jobs, is a large account located all over the northern and central Illinois areas. This is really going to hurt our business if we are expected to repair these signs on our dollar.
Is anyone else having this issue with the Lusterboard products from 06 and 07? This could be another Avery like problem most of us went through.
[ March 24, 2011, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Joseph Diaz ]
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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