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I've painted as cold as 20 Degrees. In the northeast there are quite afew days that go above 30 at some time during the day. If it's a small job I try to be on site, ready to go at about that time. The paint will dry as long as the room behind it is heated. I learned the hard way after painting a couple of false windows that were insulated from behind. The paint never set. The problem is the paint. It will freeze or at least get very thick and hard to use. I had a van so it could be heated there. I now have a pickup so the cargo area is not heated. The paint has to be brought into the shop or house at night. This at least lets you start at above freezing. I also take a bucket of warm water for brush cleaning etc. The water will stay warm for a couple of hours. All in all it is still very uncomfortable. You will probably get cold before your paint does. I wear several layer and alway wear a hat or hood. Thermal underwear is essential as well as warm boots. I found wool mittens that have a section I can pull back to expose my fingers. I hope there are a couple of good ideas here for you.
-------------------- John Browning JBG John Browning Graphics 439 East St Hebron CT Posts: 75 | From: Hebron Ct | Registered: May 2008
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There is 2 ways to do this besides freezing outside painting in above 23 degrees
Tyvak paint in shop apply double sided tape mail or install yourself .. water base paints work well'
Paint on Vinyl using Averys MPI 2121 transit white vinyl.... paint in shop have not tried this method understand it works many articles on it, myself waiting for a check so I can buy some, since I use other brands and paint outside warm here but would like to do this in shop and mail also.
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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41 degrees if it is windy and down to 26 with no wind. Oil based paints at least do not freeze, although they take a spell to set up on each layer. Surgical gloves under regular brown jerseys seem to be best for the fingers. The glass does stay warmer from the inside heat, but as John says, if the window has insulation inside on it, can take hours to set. Try white poster instead of latex for the base. Bring in the latex at night. A gasoline powered leaf blower is helpful. Lotsa of tricks, but if it is under 26, try banner paper or tyvek and hang from the inside with PREMIUM 3M packing tape. The less expensive kind will come off almost immediately.
The first half hour is the worst on the fingers. I carry an extra pair of jersey gloves and hang them on the turn signal and gear shift lever to run the heat thru the a/c ducts. When My finger start getting so cold they ache, I switch outer jerseys to the warm ones. Generally, by the time I get to the outline, I can take off the jersey glove on my right hand and with only the surgical glove, I can pull 30" lines and keep my fingers warm enough. Count how many times you 'strop' (or wipe the brush against the side of the jar/can) when starting am outline to avoid 'sagosis of the blohoe'. I strop three or four times and try to start my outlines on each letter at the left bottom and pull up, leaving an inch or so at the bottom, as the inevitable drip then becomes covered later. For long horizontal lines, I strop maybe five times and pull shorter strokes. Poster black or ultra blue seems to run much more against latex than oil color base. After each letter, double check for the sagosis of the blohoe. Some say try adding a little black lettering to the black poster for a better line pull...or even penetrol, but I rarely do. A fresh can of poster has better pulling control than an old one.
The cold weather definitely slows me down by a factor of at least 30% on a job. If it is windy, it is much worse as you have to pull shorter lines, and therefore think about elinimating so much outlining. I have tried masking tape for the bottoms of outlines before, but the cold weather always makes the tape hard to use as well. Remember to pull away from the painted area when removing the tape.
Paper and tyvek signs do take longer to make, plus the installation. I have one big Ford store I do four time a year on paper and done directly on the glass it takes me three hours, but 15-20 hours on paper. The install takes an hour for 24 pieces 54x27". Tyvek lasts longer, but with oil based enamels, the stuff crinkles and is a bear to paint. Since I use fluoro, I prefer oil based, so tyvek is always my last choice.
I have tried cling on polyethylene sheets that come on backing paper before. It is OK as far as price, but it too crinkles and sometimes takes forever to dry. A latex base is therefore essential. Done right, it looks the best and real easy to remove, but such a hassle. Bottom line is that when it is cold, I work on other stuff and tell my splash clients to simply wait.
I had a grocery store chain with 51 stores have me do a campaign several years back in the cold. They wanted it outside. I would drive to one, put on the latex base, drive to the next, put on the base and go back to the first to add color. That project took me days longer than I expected, but the giant dollars made it worth my while. You just have to think "OK. Get 'er done!" and blaze thru the cold.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1555 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm with Jane - my bones are too old to fight the cold. Besides, here in Texas, it rarely gets to those temperatures and even if it does, it's only for a few days.
You young whipper-snappers can have those jobs.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The only way to paint outside in the cold is to destroy your paint with lacquer thinner or japan dryer this can a will work down to about 23 degrees as stated above did this for years in Minnesota but you also will have runs that will be racing colder it gets... when I worked 10 mins out 10 mins inside when it got cold any colder the runs are too much and just not worth it at all.
Tyvak or transit vinyl or static cling all paint inside your shop and taken or mailed to job for install are the only ways to deal with the cold.
E-mail me if more questions about this be glad to answer
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Do not apply if temp is below 50. This is a"CROCK OF BULL"! Tim Barrow and I have painted billboards in temps as low as 9 degrees in the shade on I-95 not to mention having to scrape ice of it before we could even start painting. No..we didn't drink antifreez..we just had to complete the job cause payday was Friday and the big wheels at 3M didn't want any excuses. The poor guy who put the don't apply under 50 degrees,froze his a..off and wanted someone to read this temp crap so he wouldn't have to get out there and Freeze again.
The paint we applied that freezing cold day still looked good...3 yrs. later
-------------------- Bill Wood Bill Wood, Sign Artist 3628 Ogburn Ave., NE Winston-Salem, NC 27105-3752 336-682-5820 Posts: 397 | From: Winston-Salem, NC | Registered: May 2006
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Okay, yes, I admit on occasion, have painted in Ohio after living and painting in south Fla so then I saw snow on the brush and had to remember I was up north. Now, I am further up north, but cold is cold, I know.
I've painted with tarps around the truck, and with heaters on the windows, heat guns warming my hands...and yes, Joey, funny, it is kind of the impossible, but so what, I just had the itch to do some window splashes for the season...there really aren't any around here!
well, I am encouraged! yeah, I'm crazy but am inspired, that's makes crazy a good thing, and was thinking about 32 degrees.
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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I have no viable tips for you other than . . . wait 'til spring! lol
Ok. so . . . it's a CHRISTMAS window splash . . .
Which raises the question . . . why do some . . . ok several . . . a LOT of customers - always wait 'til the temps drop to have exterior work done? They could'a got this done a couple or 3 weeks ago . . .
ANYWAY . . . . Deb, why don'cha wanna do it from inside?
Brrrrrrrrrr - I hate it when my fingers turn black and fall off . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Put a small amount of dish soap in your water color. Expefriment first...
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I still love the rich art paint!!! thanks for the tips, it was an inspiration that I am just thinking of, not sure if I will have time, but oh well. Gearing up just in case!
(Sheila, my niece lives with her hubby and little girl in Bama!)
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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DO NOT heat up the window with a heater...unless you are looking to buy them a new window. That's one we learned by experience years ago!
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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i bring one of my shops heaters a portable kerosene 150,000 btu ready heaters , its like a little jet or big blow dryer on wheels. like the ones used sometimes at very cold football games for the players on the side lines it drys water base paints very fast in cold or damp weather without getting the window hot (i know all about breaking glass with a heat gun once)....you just dont leave it close to the glass and over heat it, keep it back 10' or more you only really need to warm the air around the glass no so much the glass its self and it will dry well and keep you the painter toasty warm also
here is a link to some of my windows from this year
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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Very Nice WORK! Love the light hearted look and the extra scenery look. Nice combination of very skiilled talent and illustrative skills, Aaron. Much impressed!
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1555 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Add a little 190 proof alcohol. Not rubbing alcohol. A capfull or two.
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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ya jack and a shot of lime and a beer chaser....lol
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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There's a big difference from a California winter to one in Illinois just outside Chicago,...if I had to do a splash outside first of all I would use oil based paints with hot thinners to combat the cold. The way a solvent evaporates affects the way the paint it is used in dries. First of all I used to use flat poster white for a base in December temps here below freezing.I would thin it with lacquer thinner and it dried quite fast,not like latex in 70 degree spring weather but fast as one could expect in 15 degree temps in Dec. and Jan. here in the Carolina hills. After a nice warm cup of coffee and a break to give the base paint time to dry I would put my oil based florescents down and then outline them. all these oilbased paints I thinned with lacquer thinner,toulene and or xylol if the temp was lower than freezing the idea being that the faster evaporating thinners made the paint dry and act like it was a cool spring day .Wear some gloves and dress up warm and don't be such a trooper take breaks and keep warm as much as possible,...when this is all said its alot easier to do the job inside on enamel receptive vinyl and spend thirty minutes putting the vinyl up in the cold instead of five or six hours in the freezing outdoors.I used to just paint the colors and leave the outline to be done after I installed the vinyl and trimmed away the shapes with an olfa knife,...it went quite fast compared to doing the whole job outside,..I remember once I did fifteen KFC stores in December in 7 days after I did all the base coats on vinyl and put the color up in vinyl and outlined them. It snowed that whole week but I got the job done by the deadline.
[ December 09, 2010, 05:45 AM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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thats true our weather is much milder here even when its bad its not all that bad. when i do my first windows of the season in mid nov. im still sporting t-shirts but now its a light jacket and only on somedays esp. if its raining I will bring my heater
-------------------- Aaron Haynes Aaron's Signs & Windows Napa Ca aa4signs@sbcglobal.net ------------ Important Rule For Life: "Look out for number one... Don't step in number two" ------------ If your never the lead dog on the sled...the scenery never changes. Posts: 241 | From: Napa Ca. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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I had 85 Hardees to do one fall. Some in Iowa. It was still warm and I was about done with the campaign in mid November. I got up to the last town up in northern central Iowa and despite the fact that it was still somewhat warm in the high 40s, there was four feet of wet snow piled up in front of the windows. Had to hit the HD and score a shovel. An hour later, I could get close enough to the glass to finish the dog. I had one more store to do. As I started, the weather turned and it started freezing rain and slush. It made the white almost impossible to do, much less, set up. I shivered and waited to second coat it (lots of those little fisheyes from the glass sweating) I went in for coffee and sat waiting. After four hours I wrapped it up. The earlier ones were taking me 40 minutes. Lesson learned: carry a shovel.
-------------------- Preston McCall 112 Rim Road Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501 text: 5056607370 Posts: 1555 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Nov 1998
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Deb - I wanted to remind you . . .you can paint the designs on vinyl - you could just use the 'temporary' paint-mask stuff. That way, you could do them in your warm shop and go apply them to the glass having much less on-site time.
In the case of regular vinyl, I lightly scuff mine, and also spray a automotive paint product called 'mid-coat adhesion promoter'. I paint whatever I want and let it dry. Then cut the peices out with a razor knife to 'weed' and then mask as usual.
I have permanent pieces up to 3ftx4ft on all the windows of restaurant - they have been there nearly 5 years and still look fine.
*If you wanna see 'em, go to page 10 of the portfolio page march 21, 2008. I had finally got pics of it and Judy posted them for me. everything is vinyl done in the shop - the small stuff was cut on the plotter and then air-brushed or spray-painted. All the large pieces were hand-painted on vinyl.
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