posted
I have to attache some Gemini letters to a cinder block and/or brick wall. The Gemini letters have "set off" pegs on the back so that they stand away from the wall about 5/8".
I have to drill holes through the pattern and into the wall - the pattern being supplied by Gemini. But am wondering if I will need a 'hammer drill' for cinder block and/or brick or if some sort of bit for a standard drill motor will work?
Your experience and advice is greatly appreciated! I'll be posting the outcome of this sign which includes a digital print applied to a custom cut shape of PVC (also standing off the wall) along with the Gemini letters pretty soon.
Thanks.
EDIT: I should have mentioned - my fear with the 'hammer drill' is that I don't want to crack out any sections of a cinder block wall as you know there are thin-walled areas and hollow centers...same for bricks.
posted
What would you use to adhere the letters? I think Gemini said Silicone Caulk....will that hold up ok? Or would you use a more aggressive construction adhesive or something that gets harder than silicone caulk?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hammedrill Baby!!! Just like I did on the rock. Hammer This
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3845 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
We use a hammer drill & silicone. If the letters are in danger of theft we use construction adhesive. Take some canned air to blow the holes clean.
posted
Todd, if you have a Dewalt cordless hammer drill, it will go a lot easier and faster. Have done lots on brick and block and never had a problem with chipping. For adhesive, I've always used silicone as well, and never had one fall off.
Like Mr. Bill said, it's nice to have some air to blow the holes clean...
Biggest thing to watch for when going into brick or block... (for me anyway) is to make SURE you start your hole in the middle of the hole in the template. If it's on the edge of a brick/block, your bit may try to walk on you a little and will rip the template a bit... try to prevent that as much as possible. Once the template is wallered out (do they use that term up north?) you're just guessing as to where the hole should be. It's hard to increase the size of your hole in the brick/block, and if it's off just a little, it'll give you a headache.
Similarly, make sure all your holes are perfectly straight. If you get one on an angle, it really pulls on the letter..... to the point of even showing on the face if it's too bad....
You probably know all that, but it's just something I try to concentrate on when installing these things....
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Sweet! Thanks one and all for the advice!! I feel a lot better about doing this now... it'll be my first Gemini install. I'll post it when completed.
Thanks too for the canned air/drill motor air blowout suggestion! Never would have thought about that until I was on the job. I'll take a can of air with me.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I agree with Si. I have a Black and Decker Firestorm 18v, and it drills great in cinderblock with a masonry bit. Cinderblock is much easier to drill than going through brick. Then, Id use a hammerdrill unless I was drilling in the mortar. But I have used my regular drill on brick too. I buy a couple bits when Im going out to drill for letters, or mounting a sign on brick. I went through four bits on one job, yeeesh.
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Todd, even with keeping the drill straight, you'll be off just enough that the holes will grab the studs for a nice secure fit. I used to squeeze silicone in the hole, but I've changed my method. How do you know how much you're putting in and I feel that the studs might just push the glob of silicone out the back side if you've drilled into a cavity. Now I stick the stud right in the tube of silicone and squeeze lightly as I pull the tube away from the stud. You can see how much silicone you are applying. This method leaves a nice layer all the way around the stud, and I know there is going to be enough silicone in the hole near the surface to seal off the hole from the elements.
I don't think a hammer drill is overkill. It's going to make the drilling part go faster. I just bought a Ryobi hammer drill for $69. (I already had several batteries, that's just the drill cost.) It has three settings, hammer, regular drilling, and screws. Handy to have a second drill in the shop.
edit: Si, I don't know what kind of bricks they have in sunny California, but here in Michigan the bricks are about the same as rock. I've given up trying to drill into brick whenever possible and aim for the mortar. Even our mortar is hard here. And I'm talking a Milwaukee 120 volt hammer drill. My 18 V works well though. I was surprised at the power and longevity of the batteries.
[ August 27, 2009, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5403 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
In total agreement on the hammer drill & clear silicone.
I usually make my own pattern, letters pen plotted on roll paper, roll paper on top of styrofoam. I shorten some studs, grind points on them, then align the letters and press thru the pattern. Sounds like extra effort but sometimes I haven't been happy with Gemini's letter spacing.
-------------------- Eric Elmgren ericsignguy@comcast.net A & E Graphic Signs Park Ridge, IL "The future isn't what it used to be" -Yogi Berra Posts: 192 | From: PARK RIDGE, ILLINOIS | Registered: Aug 2009
| IP: Logged |
Jon, you're right - our summer WAS on July 28th... it's only supposed to be about 68 today and 50's the rest of the weekend. THAT IS INSANE!! This is AUGUST for crying out loud - it's supposed to be the hot dog days of summer! What's going on??
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Todd, You didn't mention how large the letters are, but if they are over 10-12" tall, I always over size the holes. It makes the install MUCH easier, and with more than 4 studs on a letter, you'll get plenty of tension to hold the letters up. I also agree with Bill & Eric about gemini's patterns and letter spacing. Gemini charges $3.00+ per letter, so making your own pattern is worth it to get proper spacing and an accurate pattern.
-------------------- Tom & Sharon Giampia Creative Image Design Port Chester, NY Posts: 285 | From: Port Chester | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks Tom - the letters are 4" tall, but I may do my own template next time... I didn't realize it because I thought it was part of buying the letters... but I think they tacked on another $50 or so.... good info. Thanks!
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Todd, I would definitely make my own pattern. I don't know if anyone has mentioned it already but, you can download the font for whatever Gemini letters you are installing, from their website.
What I do is carefully measure a couple of letters, then size them exactly in the computer, kern them like I want, and plot my pattern.
You can make some short stud markers out of a few nails, or unthreaded studs. sharpen the ends.
Lay the pattern out flat on a workbench
Push the short stud marker/pins into the stud mounts on the letters.
Press each letter to the pattern, puncturing a hole exactly where the stud should be.
Tape your pattern to the wall and drill through the pattern.
Use a hammer drill and the job will go fast.
Use a turkey baster or small air compressor to clean out the holes.
Use 100% silicone to mount
[ September 04, 2009, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7404 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Here's the way I've made my own patterns.....
Carefully lay out the lettering on design program... sized and kerned correctly...
Load some crappy vinyl in my cutter... I use some old color I've had here for the last five years... like turquoise blue or calf scours yellow... cut the lettering, reverse weed, pulling the letters out, leaving only the wax paper where the letters were...
Put some cardboard down on the work table, use a few shortened and sharpened studs as was mentioned, take the letters and punch the holes through the backing.
What I like better about it is the vinyl remaining on the rest of the pattern makes it a lot stronger and more tear resistant than the paper patterns from Gemini.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
except to add; if ya don't get a can of air or don't wanna fool with having yet another item to deal with, just hold the drill motor up to the hole sideways and blow the dust out with that . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
| IP: Logged |
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
Printer-friendly view of this topic