quote:Originally posted by David Wright: Sorry Stephen, we don't get a feel good rush helping out people like you. Did the Mayor get his yet?
Did someone mention Oprah's school as a good example? Check out in the news how that is going.
wadda ya mean people like me?? I don't have air con in my house, there are no cup holders in my car (can't afford an SUV) and we have no McDonalds near us (thank ****) OK my opinion is similar to Dave's yup lets all pat ourselves on the back shall we?? possibly these kids that are supposedly going to get these computers would be better off if our governments stopped sending their governments armaments?? then instead of running around with an assault rifle at the age of 10 they'd out playing with their friends, if you think paying a couple of hundred dollars abdicates you from responsibility for the scores of dead children throughout the 3rd world then you are very much mistaken!
-------------------- Steve Broughton Alpha Grafix Signs Lowfields Road Benington, Boston Lincolnshire, England Posts: 315 | From: Boston, Lincolnshire, England | Registered: Aug 2001
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Again, Why not send both forms of aid??? I understand all points here. But some are only seeing the problem in black and white? We either help by doing this…. Or help by doing that…. Helping by doing that is wrong…. Who are any of us to tell anyone else how they should help? When do we decide which person we should help first? The starving kid in Africa? The displaced families in Callifornia? The solders around the globe? The Under educated children around the world? I think as long as we pick something and try to help any of our fellow man, it shouldn’t matter. It should only matter that we try to help in some way.
quote:I'm just saying that the companies supplying the computers would have more impact by donating the cost of the computers in the form of food and water.
Actually that’s not 100% true. The value of a sign that I donate (or even donate part of in this case) is greater then the amount of food I can purchase with that same amount of money. That’s because I make the sign and don’t charge for all my resources. I might charge for materials, but donate my time and labor.
There is also another positive part of this cause and a point that was made earlier backs this up:
quote:I'm saying that in the big picture, priorities are screwed up. And this could probably be said of us all. We stress out and fret over whether to get a new PT Cruiser or a HHR and the thought of getting either without a sunroof and chrome wheels leaves us in great dispair and feeling cheated.
By giving the potential donator something in return, in this case a second computer, it help persuade that potential donator to get involved. And it does work. Let’s face it, it’s human nature to be selfish. So really if you stop and think about it this is actually a good idea. It would be nice if we could donate just to donate, but the fact is gimmicks like this work.
Really, the only reason why I’m even still trying to stay involved in this debate and one positive aspect of this post is that because this post has stayed alive for this long and because so many people have at least glanced over this post, we know that a bunch of us are at least thinking about how we should donate our money, time, and resources.
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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I understand your point Joe...and I don't totally disagree with it....
My thought is that dual donation strategies as you suggest can be a good idea - at the point where there are NO people dying of starvation and at least getting some form of regular nutrition.
I just hate the thought of knowing there are people dying in location A while people are getting laptops in location B.
I'd [personally] rather see people in location A getting some life sustaining food first before dual donating food/computers.
But I do understand your point.
It's a little frustrating to me as I occasionally think about this while eating a Wendy's hamburger at will....and you are of course, completely right about the human nature of people being basically selfish.
The fact is I give several thousand dollars a year to charities, etc through my church. Not patting myself on the back, but I feel compelled to do this for religious, moral, and personal reasons....but my point is that even as I do that, I couldn't honestly tell you where 100% of that money goes as I'm basically trusting that it is dispersed and sent to worthy areas.
I guess it makes me feel good (which is kind of selfish too) and I know it's the right thing I'm called to do....to do this...even though it means I am sacrificing another new car, or toys that I might have wanted or makes college tuition difficult. Well, sacrifice might be a laughable way of describing it - - it's not really a sacrifice I guess unless it hurts.
But I am sure that it doesn't all fully go to fund just the starving or sick. I know some goes to missions/missionary support, some goes directly to food aid programs dispersed through our denomination and some goes to support the costs of operating a church: salaries, utilities, etc.
So, as I think about that - - your point makes more sense. So, either I need to rethink my position to a degree or I need to pull my charitable donation and see that it is focused in specific areas of concern to me.
This has been a very good discussion. Thanks for your input Joe...you're a very likable, and diplomatic young man.
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For the most part this thread has stayed remarkably civil. Good for us.
I'm with Joe in that a good deed is such, whether their are "more worthy" causes or not. I think that decision is up to the donor and should not be ridiculed. I personally focus the majority of my charitable donations in the mental health system as it is close to my heart and I believe any answers that research will bring, may help the thousands of homeless in our own country. There is much suffering in the world...do what you can where you will, and take pride in it, if it is something that makes you feel good, you will be more likely to do more. Guilt tactics don't leave you with a good feeling and I question that type of marketing. We tend to push the unpleasant things in life to the back of the closet.
There were two things that made me want to post this. One was the marketing ploy and how I believe it would bring help from an entirely different part of society. The other was the fact that some new technology was developed specifically to fill the needs of this program. I was intrigued by both of those ideas.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Send them books and clothes if they are above third world status but poverty stricken. Oh wait, that's already being done by hundreds of organizations and churches, some of which I do contribute to.
Laptops? My grown kids don't even have one. How do they survive?
-------------------- Wright Signs Wyandotte, Michigan Posts: 2785 | From: Wyandotte, MI USA | Registered: Jan 1999
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By the way, while we are on the off topic of charitable acts, I highly encourage anyone who wears eyeglasses to donate their old pairs to be distributed in needy areas. I believe the Lions Club is one collection outlet. How wonderful, the gift of sight, and the worse your own eyes, the greater the gift. This one doesn't cost a cent, and is environmentally friendly!
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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quote: Laptops? My grown kids don't even have one. How do they survive?
It’s not just a laptop. I think all of us take technology like this for granted. Assuming your kids go to school, they are getting an education. They most likely have internet access, teachers, and a full library of knowledge. If you look closer, a laptop isn’t just a play thing for your kid, it can be a full education for a community that can’t afford a school, full of teachers and books.
Also, I just wanted to say that guilt tripping people to donate the money isn’t always the best thing to do, A person should feel good about helping. Making them feel bad about not isn’t always an effective means. A positive thing about this post is that I’ve been thinking about this all day, actually for the past few days. And I have recently donated money not $400.00 for two laptops but an amount that I can afford. And I know it’s not really anyone’s business, but I felt great about doing it. If anyone else wants to donate I would suggest also checking out the American Red Cross website. There is a donate button and then a box you can check next to “Where our need is greatest” Like Todd and his church I too like to let much better people then myself choose where they think the money should go, but you can also select individual causes that feel strongly towards on their site. And… It’s easy.
-------------------- Joe Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, IL 61764 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 538 | From: Pontiac, IL | Registered: Aug 2005
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I have recently done just that, another thing I feel a desire to get back to is mission trips right here in our own country. There are so many that live right here as if they WERE in a 3rd world country. There are so many right here that can only dream of a computer. I don't condemn helping other countries, but let's not neglect our own. or your own, seeing as you ARE in another country lol.
Sometimes we focus so much on things so far away and not even see what is right in front of us.
I think this post has produced some positive results.
I can convince myself of that bowl of ice cream now
[ October 25, 2007, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Well I decided this was something I wanted to do. It actually saved me money because the other day I put something I was going to buy for more back on the shelf so I could do this instead, I didn't really need it. Jim and I are going halvsies on this one. Feels good. Now I challenge all you guys that figured the money should go elsewhere to put YOUR money where your mouth is (whatever you feel you can afford) and make a donation to wherever you feel it is needed most.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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Well Darcy, right now if you buy one you can get one for yourself for an extra $200.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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I think the politics of a thread like this goes nowhere. Except that one could hope and pray for good to come from it. Good hearts may not win out completely and others may not be able to exert thier will as well. most important is that both pro and con are in a talking phase. Now how does (1) one of these computers reach a child somewhere that it is needed. I think the real task would be to actually track a shipment of these goods to see where they really end up. We know that not all meds or foods are placed in the right hands. A factor of responsibility is important to our way of thinking and backing away from charitable acts because of former bad press about thievery in places we know little about or sidetracked delays like the New Orleans,people in this here country are still experiencing. Basically,the thought and discussion is good but broken hearts at both ends lead to dead ends. THAT's what needs to be fixed, and if we all holler together at church or in the street it may result in something.
Just a thought....
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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The One Laptop per Child organization seems to be keeping pretty good track of their computers so far. Some of the same people have apparently been working on this idea since at least 1982 when Apple II microcomputers were distributed in Senegal. The history of the organization can be found here.
These computers have not and are not going to waste. They've been working long and hard on all this and I have enough faith in their competence to put up my own hard-earned money. Their extensive website answers all the questions any rational and compassionate and helpful soul could ask.
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I have not been around much, but I look and see how everyone is faring at times, and low and behold late on this Friday night after a long hard week I find this post and am very happy to see how it is being handled and responded to, and how very seriously it is being treated.
I want to add a little information about what I have found true in observing life around me, concerning all people in all life situations. It's "The Hierarchy of Human Need" by Abraham Maslow. I went and clicked on a Google link and am adding it here. There are many, and this may not be the best description, but if you take a look at it, you'll get the idea even maybe it's not the best presentation of the concept.
I'm no longer young by any stretch, and I am a keen observer of people and my own life, and I have over time found this to be a universal truth about human needs. So I thought I would share:http://changingminds.org/explanations/needs/maslow.htm
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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(I don't have the time or energy to read every reply on this subject.)
Did anyone read any of the Terms and Conditions?
These laptops are going to be given to children in the "least developed countries in the developing world," following the UN's definition of least developed countries. These include Ethiopia, Somalia and Mozambique. see http://www.un.org/special-rep/ohrlls/ldc/list.htm
I could be wrong but in Mozambique I think you're more likely to die (at the life expectantcy of 33) before you find a good wireless hot spot.
If I ever decide to not help the people of my own country but rather send my money abroad I'd hope it was appropriated to more important things like food and medicine.
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I realize that this is a concept that seems foolish to a lot, but it doesn't really matter much to me if others think it is a stupid move, The $200 was my money, spent in a way that I wanted to. It won't go to give 100 people one more meal, it will go to one child and hopefully give him/her a brighter future. If it doesn't end up working that way.....well, I have spent that much money before on far lesser things. I'm really not a materialistic person, if you come to my home I hope you will excuse the fact that my towels don't match or that my furniture is tired. Those things are not important to me, what is important is my family, friends and world. Having lived in India for six years, I know first hand the face of extreme poverty as well as the face of corruption. Neither of them will be eliminated in my lifetime. It isn't important to me how you help.....that's your choice. Christmas is coming, designate a portion of your gift budget to the needy, give your family a foster child for a year (they will probably get far more satisfaction from it than an e-pet) bake cookies for a soup kitchen, adopt a pet from the humane society...whatever makes your heart warm. Do your thing..I did mine.
-------------------- “Did you ever stop to think, and forget to start again?” -Winnie the Pooh & A.A. Milne
Kelly Thorson Kel-T-Grafix 801 Main St. Holdfast, SK S0G 2H0 ktg@sasktel.net Posts: 5496 | From: Penzance, Saskatchewan | Registered: May 2002
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wadda ya mean people like me?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
I don't have air con in my house, there are no cup holders in my car (can't afford an SUV) and we have no McDonalds near us (thank ****) 
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Thanks for your input Joe...you're a very likable, and diplomatic young man.
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