The "State of the Industry Report" published in Sign Media magazine's December issue refers to digital signage as a "particularly high-growth sector of the [sign] industry", citing a reports that:
433,000 video displays were sold in North America over the past year specifically for signage purposes, representing approximately $800 million US in sales
The sign market for large, flat-panel video displays will top $3.5 biliion US by 2011
I don't think any of us would find any of that surprising. After all, digital signage is becoming increasingly widespread: in big-box retailers, airports, hotels, fast-food drive-thrus, gas stations, convenience stores, etc., etc.
We also see digital signage receiving regular coverage in our trade magazines. All very sexy to report on...but what does it mean to the average signshop owner? I don't see much of an editorial effort to explain how digital signage is expected to impact the average signshop's business... or any how-to articles for capitalizing on what is (without question) a trend that will continue.
I'm very curious to hear from anyone who might care to comment on the subject...
Have you given any thought to the subject?
What impact is digital signage having on your business today?
What impact do you expect it to have, in future?
What are you doing about it?
How do you see the technology fitting into your business?
Thanks for your comments - and a belated "Happy New Year!" to all. Hope you have plans to make 2007 your most succesful year yet!
[ January 05, 2007, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: Jon Aston ]
-------------------- Jon Aston MARKETING PARTNERS "Strategy, Marketing and Business Development" Tel 705-719-9209 Posts: 1724 | From: Barrie, ON, CANADA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Jon Aston: Hello folks.
I'm very curious to hear from anyone who might care to comment on the subject...
Have you given any thought to the subject? yes
What impact is digital signage having on your business today? None
What impact do you expect it to have, in future? None
What are you doing about it? Not very much
How do you see the technology fitting into your business? too big...won't fit
Not being a smart ass. Really. I think that some of us don't see this as a threat simply because that is not the area that we make our most money. Its not our "thing". It's great stuff and I do think that it is a good thing, but I for one will leave it to a company that "likes" technology. I personally don't.
You asked....
-------------------- Snow's Sign Works 865-908-0076 snowman@planetc.com www.snowsigns.com
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message... Posts: 1640 | From: Sevierville, TN | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Right now it's only the larger corporate companies utilizing the digital stuff - casinos and hotels in Vegas and indian reservations, sports arenas, big box retailers, advertisers in Times Square, Powerball Lottery, etc.. and I would venture to say that 90% of the sign shops out there don't service those types of customers because the majority of businesses out there are smaller and don't have the immediate needs nor the budget for that type of product. That's not to say they'll never have the need or budget, surely the costs will come down and it will infiltrate more of our daily lives.
As far as how it affects my business:
There will be more opportunity for the media content generation.
I'm already positioned to provide the product, or at least the content production aspect of it. The past 20 years I've spent fine-tuning skills in photography, videography, 2D design, 3D Modeling and Animation, and post-production in all of the above.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
They are not just for casinos in LasVegas........
10 years ago I sold my first LED message center. Things chilled out for a while for them. I have sold many of them recently. I quoted on 9 of them last week alone.
This is how I do it:
Most local businesses don't have $15,000 - $40,000 in their front pocket to spend for a cool message center. I offer them leasing options that allow them to make payments. I find out what their budget will allow for a payment and go backwards from there to see what kind and size of sign will fit their budget.
One customer was interested in a $3000 illuminated cabinet last year. She didn't do it because she didn't want to write a check for that amount. I went in to her office last month and pitched an illuminated cabinet along with a message center incorporated in the same sign. It came to over $17000 and she signed the contract. She will make a $300 payment for 5 years. That is less than she was paying per month for a billboard beside the highway.
Message centers start with solid red, green, amber or blue. They then go to shaded versions of those colors. Shaded Tri-color gives you red and green LED's that blend to give the third color of amber. Then we get to the BIG BUCKS Full Color - RED/BLUE/GREEN. When you get a video Full color message center you need a stand alone computer to stream the video.
Now you get to figure out what matrix size you need. It usually takes 8 pixels high to make a character. So if you want a 3 line board you will need at least a 24 matrix high panel.
Next to consider is the Pixel pitch. a 12mm Pixel pitch means there is 12mm of distance from the center of one pixel to the next. The cabinet of a 96x24 matrix 11mm pixel pitch sign will be smaller than a 96x24 matrix 25mm pixel pitch.
We also install a wireless transmitter to eliminate burying data cables. They can sit in their warm office and send messages to the board from their desktop computer.
Many boards are programable to schedule messages a year in advance. Time and temp is usually standard also. Double sided signs come as a Primary/secondary - meaning whatever you program on side A is played on side B. Double Primarys which have their own processors can display different messages at the same time.
They are fun to play with after they are installed and are very profitable. They are pretty heavy so expect to use a crane or a bucket truck for installs. A good knowledge of wiring, welding, ect. is needed also.
Edited to add: Most boards cost the same as they did 10 years ago. Technology is driving the price down slow, but inflation brings it back up to the same level. LED's have improved greatly. Most can be rated for 100,000 - 150,000 hours of use and the brightness is much more intense than they used to be.
Good luck
[ January 05, 2007, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Jerry VanHorn ]
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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We are on track to make 2007 our most succesful and profitable year yet.
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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posted
Jerry, thanks for the information. I've had people asking me about them. Since the hurricanes and since a lot of new signs have gone up in our area, electronic message signs are going in EVERYWHERE. Churches, schools, businesses, car lots, restaurants and motels...
The more that are installed, the more interest there is... Businesses feel like they need to keep up with their competition...
ANYWAY... my question was: do you provide the financing options? If you use a leasing company, do you mind letting me know who it is? Or at least if it is a local bank, or a someone who specializes in signage leasing... Also, do you handle the application and everything, or just put the customer in touch with the leasing company?
Sorry for all the questions, but this would be ideal for some of my customers who are very interested in this type of signage, but don't want to shell out the money up front for it.
THANKS!
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
The use of all digital graphics will continue to increase at an increasing rate and it often does replace traditional signage.
I don't think the digital graphics on vehicles, etc. are that far off either. We've seen flexible, digital graphics as thin as heavy paper. We've seen them contour cut. Why can't we apply them to vehicles?
I knew we were very close when I saw a thread on this board where someone recommended an LCD panel for their sign shop showroom. I don't think they saw the irony. I realize it makes more sense for my showroom than the constantly changing digital prints I keep creating to display. I have digital photos of our work. Why turn them into prints and mount them when I want them to change constantly? The only reason I don't do it is because I don't want to show my customers how obsolete some of our product line really is.
From the day graphic production went digital, it only made sense to skip the analog step altogether. Why create content digitally, produce it digitally and end up with analog output (paper, vinyl, etc.)?
Cost has kept the threshold relatively high, but it continues to come down. As the prices continue to drop and the flexibility and variety of the output continues to improve,digital signage will be used in more and more places.
The overall effect on the graphic output industry has been masked by the trend to larger and more unique digital prints; building wraps, full stadium packages, etc. this has kept digitally produced, analog output growing despite the improvements in all digital signage. But like all trends, this one really bares watching.
I moved away from large format digital printing because I was not as well capitalized as the photo studios that I had to compete with. Although unfamiliar with exterior sign materials, durability and installation, they had a large competitive advantage in full color, large format output.
I think sign shops are even less well suited to provide content and technological solutions for all digital signage.
It's still too early for a "traditional" sign shop such as mine, and most of yours, to really worry about this trend but I would love to learn it and understand it so we know how to embrace it or compete against it when the time comes.
-------------------- Paul Luszcz Zebra Visuals 27 Water Street Plymouth, MA 02360 508 746-9200 paul@zebravisuals.com Posts: 483 | From: 27 Water Street, Plymouth, MA 02360 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
I am not any type of expert what so-ever, but back just a few years ago, this thing called vinyl came out. And let me tell you, I hated it. Design a sign on a computer, are you kidding me. Vinyl was SIN, there was nothing more for me to say, until I got hungry and had to find a way to stay in the door.
Today it is different, I still have my brushes, and even though I have been forced to use this machine to earn a living from time to time, I still have my brushes, and I have even had to replace a few, and thats a good SIGN.
I dont believe the digital movement will replace the necessity of a signwriter. It does pose a threat I would think to the already electric sign business, channel letters have already gone to LED instead of the old faithful neon. But the digital offers a choice of what is to be said and when for how long.
But a name, their company name, church name, that will remain a sign, and not just lit up with a bright LED bulb, it will be a "handmade" sign, by a person. BOLD AND BRIGHT, firm, solid and faithful, everyday in the same place, like a great friend always there ready for battle. It is there mark (the customers), it is an identity, it is who they are.
I believe this for one reason and here it is...
The people who buy our signs (everyones), they have worked very hard to build the business they have today, they have worked by hand, at night, on holidays and weekends, missed birthday parties and summer vacations..... it is is their business and they are proud of it.
I make a sign for them, guess what, I am proud of it, not just cause I made it, but because I was given the honor to do so for them.
The people I am grateful to, the ones who have helped me pursue this passion and allow me to make them "THEIR" sign, they can feel this, usually from the time they walk in the door or the first phone call.
This is not a slamm to any aspect of the industry as all has its place, but I am convinced, that the signwriter, the signwriter will not be replaced.
And that is all I have to say about that right now.
God Bless each one of you!!
-------------------- Sharing the WORD one sign at a time!! Joe Golden Signage 721 Oak ST, Madisonville KY, 42431 270-871-0454 Posts: 270 | From: Madisonville, Kentucky | Registered: Oct 2006
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posted
Come on, guys. I can hardly get $350.00 for lettering 2 sides of a van (so I don't even bother doing them). I don't think any of my customer's will be standing in line to spend thousands for a "digital" paint job (not to mention it's not even feasible yet). I'll almost be 60 in ten years, and I'll bet that this technology will STILL not impact what my shop does on a daily basis; and by then I'll be heading to Florida or Arizona to p*ss off the natives!
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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Digital signs may well be included in some of my future projects, but I probbly would subcontract that part out.
I'm one to embrace technology if it helps me produce the type of work I enjoy... and that''s outrageous 3D projects. The more we go down the techno road the more valuable my hand produced (with techno help) work becomes.
The work I produce today is priced much higher than what I did 10 years ago. And while I used a dozen or more folks to help me 10 years ago I can do the same type of work today with 2. Its not just because of the technology like the router, but also because we have better materials, a proper workshop, other wonderful tools and are also working much, much smarter.
I'm not afraid of what the future brings.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Vegas is full of them...I call it Visual Noise. But I am sure that in 20 years, some people will even have digital coroplast signs. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Interesting, here we are just starting to get digital billboards...and the city council is already talking about banning them as a distraction to drivers because the brightly lit, moving images draw your attention too much.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Hi Jon! That's a good question. We should keep abreast of what's going on in the big spectrum of things.
I still find that there are niches to fit into if one is flexible in the vinyl and paint arenas and agree there are still many, many businesses that don't want to invest that kind of money;
In my case I find it particularly successful to know how to manage jobs from beginning to end for mid to small businesses and just those types of jobs do continue to demand quite a few of us small sign businesses busy.
And, with that in mind, I think just being accessible and a bit flexible in service and product knowledge along with a personable disposition goes far. But, if the jobs called for digital imaging, I would feel the best way to go is to call a fellow letterhead in the digital business and farm it out. I don't live in a huge city, but, it may be different if I lived in the greater Chicago area, perhaps. The gap between the very rich and the very poor is huge and continues to be so, therefore I feel pretty secure our type of signage can and still will be invaluable for those who want individualized signage for there businesses (at a reasonable cost, especially those new in business that don't want a huge investment until they see the business grow).
Nonetheless, demand can create supply so it may be just a matter of time that small businesses wish to buy from digital companies directly if they find a cheap enough price. Some of the large companies can bring that price down just to attract more of a comprehensive clientele if they wish to do so. They just may hire very cheap labor and then things may change dramatically. How these small businesses are going to survive is always an interest to me, and as us baby boomers get older (or are getting older) we think about pensions and health and wellness. I know it's harder to think about what our kids are going to have to go through. I will find plenty of work in my time that is still in that niche of smaller signs, and maybe it will continue, but, I didn't even fathom what has happened with digital technology when I started into the sign biz in 1981, nor even ten years ago!
I really would like to also have the knowledge of which letterheads do digital printing and keep abreast of that too. It's always good to be versatile and keep up with the times while keeping the letterhead spirit alive.
[ January 07, 2007, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
-------------------- Deb Fowler
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney (1901-1966) Posts: 5373 | From: Loves Park, Illinois | Registered: Aug 1999
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posted
Personally, I think digital displays are pretty ugly outside of a corporate setting, and I wouldn't want to see them going up all over the place in my community. I'm sure they are a profitable business, but I have no interest in signing on for it.
I have an acquaintance who sells them. I see him almost every Christmas at an annual party given by mutual friends. We usually ask each other "how's biz"? My standard answer is "business is good, staying steady" and leave it at that.
My eyes immediately start glazing over when he starts talking about his. I always make sure my glass is getting empty before I go up to talk to him, so I can escape to go for another drink.
Given the choice, I'd rather make good money at something I enjoy and find beauty in, than to sell stuff I have no interest in perpetuating.
To each their own. ~nettie
-------------------- "When Love and Skill Work Together ... Expect a Masterpiece"
posted
"Video Billboards" are sprouting up like weeds here. And just like when vinyl and digiprint technolgies were introduced, there are some pretty ugly/illegible designs going up on these things. I don't like them either, but that doesn't mean I won't sell them. When I was at the Atlantic City Sign Show I did spend a fair amount of time studying them and had a helluva lot of reading info sent to me. So much that I'll be studying them for the next couple of months. I'm also learning a lot about the video (LCD/Plasma) technologies, plus the "electronic paper" that Paul mentioned. Simply put, they will impact our bottom line, either in a positive way as Jerry mentioned, or in a negative way when we start too loose out on the traditional sign work they will replace. So, like it or not, you'll need to embrace the technology or develop a kick a$$ marketing plan that will keep you ahead of the competition that chooses not to pursue this work either.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
-------------------- a.k.a. Brian Born www.CheckersCustom.com Harrisburg, Pa Work Smart, Play Hard Posts: 3775 | From: Harrisburg, Pa. U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Those who mention how unattractive digital signs are don't see how attractive some of them are and many of them can be.
Most of us have seen a digital ad at a convenience or grocery store. The paper sign has been replaced by an LCD display at the checkout. They are starting to appear on the carts themselves. And don't forget my showroom example.
Sometimes you see a billboard and only realize it's digital when the image changes.
I don't see them replacing carved signs anytime soon, but they can still impact our business. As I've mentioned, I started doing carved signs a few years ago in part to avoid competing with larger digital print providers. New entrants in the market may indirectly effect you. What was once a very nice niche may become more and more crowded over time as those companies that used to print posters get squeezed between Kinkos and Staples at one end and digital providers at the other.
I mean, these things are, after all, still signs.
-------------------- Paul Luszcz Zebra Visuals 27 Water Street Plymouth, MA 02360 508 746-9200 paul@zebravisuals.com Posts: 483 | From: 27 Water Street, Plymouth, MA 02360 | Registered: Jul 2003
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you're welcome anytime. I have an RV you could 'shack' up in for a while.
Jon - We have used TigerLeasing.com in the past. They do Commercial leasing. Your clients need to have a pretty clean credit rating to be able to work with them. They have a leasing calculator on the website to help with some of your quick quotes.
[ January 08, 2007, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Jerry VanHorn ]
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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posted
I'm afraid i'm with Jerry on this one...to give an example I just sold a pair of message centers that are 5'x28' with 2 5'x20' cans, nice steel frame, 35' tall, almost everything from the electrical to the welding to the crane to the concrete and digging is subbed out, pretty much what we will do is supervise over the project and letter the polycarb faces. So for atotal investment of about 2 weeks of our time we will net approx 50K.
And its not a casino or high end place, just a local guy that sees a growing market...
Jerry, I would also like to know who you're using as your finance source, local or national???
posted
There is a dork around here that has three LCD TV's strapped to the top of his Scion. I got within about 75' of it and still couldn't read a thing. I could recognize the ReMax logo and there was a picture of a woman on it but that's the extent of the "advertising". I think somebody didn't do a business plan on that idea.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Digital/LCD/scrolling message boards are certainly impressive, but there are still many town and ordinances prohibiting their use for various reasons. Hard to market what can't be used.
Paul brings up the real point....they are still signs. Like flat, dimensional, digitally printed, painted or vinyl signage, there are still going to be good ones and bad ones out there based on design.
Let's just hope the bad ones are few and far between. Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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