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» The Letterville BullBoard » Letterhead/Pinstriper Talk » OT - Can markets actually drop while rising? - apparently so.

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Author Topic: OT - Can markets actually drop while rising? - apparently so.
Mike O'Neill
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Member # 470

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As you may know I'm a big fan of Eric Sprott.

Here's his monthly newsletter. As always it's well worth the read. Vertigo

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Mike O'Neill


It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.
- Arthur C. Clarke


mike@copyshop.ca

Posts: 3094 | From: Labrador City, NF, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Myra Grozinger
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I printed the news letter out, thinking i would read it in the Hot Tub at the YW tonight, but got engrossed---

Yes the markets can drop while rising, because the fundamentals are not being reported and evaluated properly. And the markets right now are a perception based crapshoot. They may be rising in the same way a flood lifts something up before it drowns it.

It is only a matter of very little time, until the true erosion of financial power will surface and can no longer be distorted by propaganda. The buyer's market has started and foreclosures en masse are to come, the people who bought houses and are paying interest only loans will have to pay their mortgage money for gas to get to work. There are few alternatives to that.
The Pawn Shops are overrun at this time, first people empty out the houses, and then they lose them.

Unfortunately this spells financial trouble for the whole nation with it's middle class getting more impoverished and spread thin every day.

The newsletter confirms a lot of what ought to be obvious about what is going on around us. Unless we dont' want to see it.

The 25 year high in Gold is not only from the weak dollar, the high inflation in general and the high price of oil - it is also from just being plain scared.
I see this fear of the future as world wide.
==============
No fair Mike, you get to just post the link, and I'm going to have to take the heat for saying I read it.
I used as little words as possible

[Wink]

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Myra A. Grozinger
Signs Limited
Winston-Salem, NC

signslimited@triad.rr.com

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Glenn Taylor
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Mike,

He has some very intersting points. The only problem I have is his points about the housing boom. Talk about the how the bubble was about to burst was the samething being said a year ago in BusinessWeek and The Eonomist. How do we square what they said then and what he says now? Are we then simply creating a self-fulfilling prophesy?

And to his point about the core inflation, is it not possible that a combination of increased productivity and dramatic drops in the price of consumer electronics compensate for the inflationary pressures of energy costs? It seems to me that there have been enough offsets to account for it.

Take a look at the sign industry. In my area, the price for certain types of signage have dropped due to increased competition? A pair of magnetic signs cost less today than they did 20 years ago inspite of the fact the cost of doing business and the cost of goods have gone up.

I'm selling screen printed t-s for less than I did 15 years ago but I'm making a greater profit margin. This is due in part to a lower cost of goods and improved productivity.

What are your thoughts?

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

Posts: 10691 | From: Wilson, NC, USA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Mike O'Neill
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The prophesy is not self fulfilling, it's driven more by irresponsible lending policies of the banks and (now) rising interest rates.

In 2003/2004 one could have financed a home with interest rates as low as 4%, bankers introduced insanely long mortgages, combined with low payments for the first two years which essentially didn't even cover the interest charged, the logic being that in a hot real estate market the house could be refinanced for an even greater amount at a later date and the (equity ?) used to pay the increased payments. Even without the fancy footwork, people were buying houses with little or no down payment and counting on low interest payments to last forever. Others were borrowing against the newfound equity they found in their houses as prices went up and again counting on interest rates remaining low.

Look at this scenario: on a $225,000 mortgage at 4%, 30 yr, principal & interest would be roughly $1075 per month (+ mortgage insurance) were one have to renew that same mortgage two years later at 6.25% (balance $216,914, 28 years) the monthly payments would increase to around $1370 per month.

Many families will find that they just can't afford the increase and will be forced to sell (possibly at a loss) therefore putting a large number of houses on the market at a time that due to higher rates there are fewer buyers... Don't think the bubble will burst? - all the ingredients are there.

You can see historic US prime rates here

Eric has some strong opinions on the US governments policy of printing it's way out of financial crisis brought on by years of huge budget deficits combined with massive shortcomings in the balance of trade.
His point was that if the market was compared to commodity values instead of dollars you would see that the market essentially fell by roughly 10% in a one month period of time. By anyone's definition a calamity.

I'd hate to argue with Eric, his track record is just too strong. Sprott canadian equity has averaged over 30% annually since it's inception in 1997, his other funds are also stellar, he's obviously called the shots right up to now.

[ April 27, 2006, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Mike O'Neill ]

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Mike O'Neill


It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value.
- Arthur C. Clarke


mike@copyshop.ca

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Glenn Taylor
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I don't know if I would say that "the bubble has burst". It seems to me that in the past few months there has been more of a "slow down". The other thing I question is how regional these bubbles or slowdowns are. I'm doing some work for a developer and he's convinced that our area is at the beginnings of a major boom that is expected to last the next several years.

Also, interest rates are predicted to reach 6.5% by the end of this year. I just don't see that doing much of a "pop" when you combine the fact that the unemployment rate continues to drop.

.

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BlueDog Graphics
Wilson, NC

www.BlueDogUSA.com

Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.

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jack wills
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I'm seeing a lot of sadness out here in
the Sacramento,area where some folks who
were in the flipping game are now caught with
more than one property on thier hands.
My payments are low compared to those who fell
into the trap of equity exchange. Some of them
now are looking at mid $3K payments and
wondering if they will be the next one fired.
I have a good friend who is a broker that is
just about to lose a million dollar home that
he had built for resale and it is sitting along
with many many others empty and costing money
instead of making it.
The banks seem desperate for business with all
the come on ads that are popping up as well.
But eveeerything else seems to be on track
and I also do think Sprock, has a nose for
which he speaks.

CrazyJack

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Jack Wills
Studio Design Works
1465 E.Hidalgo Circle
Nye Beach / Newport, OR

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David Wright
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No new insights from this fellow. Too many to count that have been calling this outcome for years.
Heck, I have even seen it coming.

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan

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Si Allen
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Don't sweat it! As soon as all the "undocumented immigrants" are given complete amnesty...the housing market will boom! Lets face it, they will have to have a place to live, and when all their relativews sneak into the country, one room won't be big enough...they will need a new home of their own!

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

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Ron Helliar
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This coming market correction is financially, ethically & socially 10 to 15 years behind it's safe & sane controlled corrective date. The US is in an artificially motivated market based on home ownership that has exceeded it's usefullness nationally and now globally. Artifically low interest rates and people in houses that should be renters due to lifestyle choices must be paid for somewhere. I suspect the bill's in my increasing taxes on all levels and the poor smuck in China killing himself to supplying Walmart.
All in my humblest of opinions of course.

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Ron Helliar
Marysville Sign
11807 51st Ave. NE
Marysville, WA 98271
(360) 659-4856

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