I was wondering, with the current topic about escalating gas prices, what your thoughts were as to how North American vehicles ended up as "gas guzzlers" (I know that's not strictly true nowdays, but bear with me) compared to, say, European vehicles, where a 2 litre engine is considered a "large" motor. Is it the fact that gasoline has always been much more expensive in Europe, and thus the need for thriftier vehicles, or is it the wide open spaces in North America necessitating big 'ol engines?
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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The overwhelming attitude in America is BIGGER, BIGGER, BIGGER, MORE, MORE, MORE.
Doesn't matter one bit if it's better for you, the environment, gas prices.
-------------------- Kimberly Zanetti Purcell www.amethystProductivity.com Folsom, CA email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com
“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne Posts: 3722 | From: Folsom, CA | Registered: Dec 2001
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WE(the people of the united states)are a people of EXCESS & WASTE!!!!!! their is youre answer. we create more garbage then any other nation, we have more RENTAL STORAGE BUSINESSES then any other nation. what does that tell you? we COLLECT & DISGUARD more crap then any other nation. WHY? because we have this hedonistic desire to out garbage and out possess everybody else..... WHO NEEDS A HUMVEE? EXCURSION? 7 PASSENGER SUVS? when most of the time we see these vehicles runnin down the road....WITH 1 PERSON IN THEM!!!! iam gettin a MOPED!!!!!!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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22 miles pergallon in these isn't exactly "thrifty" either.....barely better than a full size truck.
My old Chevy Venture got 24 mpg STRICTLY on the highway if I didn't drive too fast. They're handy - but if you own one of these, you cannot exactly call yourself environmentally conscious either.
Most multipassenger vehicles drive around with 1 to 2 people.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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It's funny here in TEXAS where there are probably 90% SUV's and large trucks...and yes, there is usually only one person in them...usually with one hand putting on makeup and the other on the cell phone...no offense ladies.
-------------------- Kelsey Dum Dum Designs Sherwood, AR 72120 501.765.2166 kelsey@dumdesigns.com Posts: 827 | From: Sherwood, AR | Registered: Oct 2005
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This struck me as something my fiance, Bernard, would have unique insight on, having been raised in Europe and now in the classic car business. I sent him a copy of the post for his response. Here it is:
Having lived in many European countries until 1986, let me assure you that nowhere in the civilized world is automotive fuel (not only "gasoline") as cheap as over here in the new world. It is cheap here because of the low taxation. Add $3 per gallon of fuel in taxes and you will have European and Japanese fuel prices. Drive a vehicle that needs premium unleaded in Europe and you're facing up to $9 per gallon now.
Fuel prices have always been high in Europe, and combined with a government system that taxes the SIZE of the engine and an insurance system that bases rates on the HORSEPOWER output of them, and you'll understand why the entire world--except us--has small, peppy, fuel efficient vehicles. The thriftiest passenger car sold here--no, it's not the Prius--is the Volkswagen Golf/Jetta, reaching close to 50mpg in real life tests. That's mid-of-the-border in Europe. For example, the Volkswagen Polo with the turbocharged 3-cylinder Diesel gets up to 70mpg. And, yes, it can cruise at 90mph all day long without breaking a sweat. In fact, I used to cruise with my 1963 Beetle, having only 50 horsepower, at 75mph, easily. How many of the Northstar-powered Cadillac's 300 horses do you think do you need to drive at at 75mph? I'll tell ya: 68; the rest is wasted, just fed like parasites.
Things will change soon, however, as consumers' purchase behavior will change as fuel prices will continue to rise, and they will, you can bet the farm on it. China has 75,000,000 people waiting to buy--and fuel--cars, India is not far behind! I predict $4 per gallon by early 2007, and that's a conservative guess I would bet on. What can YOU do? Buy a fuel efficient vehicle as soon as possible. Gas guzzling SUVs will be saleproof very soon; you won't even find them in Europe. A new wave of the 3rd generation (common rail injection) Diesels will make it to our shores for the 2007 model year. You won't know it's a Diesel unless you open the hood. Just my 2 cents.
-------------------- Tracie Johnson Signovations Ventura, California Posts: 444 | From: Ventura, California | Registered: Nov 2005
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Excellent post, Tracie, and in line with my thoughts. As an ex-pat from the UK, I can agree that what passes for economical here would be laughable in Europe. I guess what really brought it home to me was when I first came across the North American habit of leaving the engine running whilst in the store or wherever. Very unlikely to happen in the UK - heck, most people turn off the engine at a railroad crossing (I know technically that may not be efficient, but it shows the mind set)
-------------------- Graham Parsons Signs 'n Such Ltd Swift Current Saskatchewan Canada. www.signsnsuch.com
"Saskatchewan - hard to pronounce, easy to draw" Posts: 710 | From: Saskatchewan, Canada | Registered: Oct 1999
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Americans like their comfort and performance, plain and simple, but they equate performance with big numbers of horsepower and torque and a big heavy vehicle they assume is safer because there's more to it.
These days using a small "economy" car on the road with the trucks and SUV's is just taking your life into your own hands. Not to mention Americans see small cars more as "cute" or "dorky" in design and nobody wants to drive something like that.
Look what's happened since the fuel crisis in the 70's.. The Japanese automakers capitalized on the crisis by having the only fuel efficient options available. Now some 30 years later even the Japanese cars have gotten bigger, heavier, larger more powerful and thirstier engines to meet the demands of the buyers.
I guess we just need another fuel crisis.. a BIG one.. for people to get the hint.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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Doesnt' exactly explain why you can buy a Jeep grand cherokee in Europe with an efficient 2.4l diesel engine. That engine isn't even offered in North america. Same car, same comfort, same safety, (actually european model is safer, side curtain airbags mandatory) ...
Uk Ford ranger offered with this engine 2.5l turbo diesel Why isn't that offered in North America?
[ April 27, 2006, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Mike O'Neill ]
-------------------- Mike O'Neill
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke
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Mike, I think the euro jeep has a Mercedes diesel, it's set up for the low sulpher diesel used in Europe. I read the other day that Shell Oil has developed a new type of diesel derived from natural gas...doesn't smell, doesn't smoke and makes more power and better milage. Thats what Audi uses in their new prototype endurance racer, it won it's first race at the 12 hours of Sebring.
-------------------- Mark Perkins Performance Signs & Graphics Eunice, Louisiana "The heart of Cajun Country" Posts: 506 | From: Eunice Louisiana 70535 | Registered: Nov 1998
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here ya go mr berry....and yes that is SNOW on the ground, pic was taken in 1966 just noRth of ya....CARIBOU, MAINE!!!!!!!aint a moped its a BULTACO 250CC. smallestr bike i ever rode.
[ April 28, 2006, 03:21 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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The American perception of diesel is negative. People hear "diesel" and they think of the semis on the highway billowing black soot, yet they don't think about all the diesel Rams and Ford trucks that don't puff out the black stuff at all. They think about loud and obnoxious engines like the Fords and Rams but not the small quiet VW's that have been on the road for years here.
Hmm imagine if more Americans used diesel and started making their own biodiesel from recycled fast food fryer oil. That could drive some of us into binge eating always smelling the aroma of french fries in the air no matter where you go.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I dunno, but that is ONE COOL PICTURE OP! Seriously. Cool fashion, neat cars in background, good colors and arrangement of subject. OK so I'm not a pro photographer, but the picture is cool.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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Mike O : my grandson was here for Easter week and after a few days of finding my glasses, picking up stuff I dropped, and other old age related indignities he looked at me and said: "I'm going to really worry about you without me." I worry about me, too, because I can't even answer your question.
On the gas subject, I was in Germany last year and one of my brothers drove me from one city to the next. I gave him 50 Euros for gas (about 60 bucks) and said I wanted to buy the next tank full. He looked at me with the look of: Where's the rest? Turned out it was NOT NEARLY enough.He called me a spoiled American.
As others have said there are a number of things people do in Europe to conserve gas (i.e. money). They bicycle, they walk a lot. They drive their car to the street car or bus to use those conveyances and leave their car parked. They don't idle if possible. They avoid driving at times of predictable high traffic. They carpool. They schedule trips very carefully, and take as few as possible. Nothing really new, but it's a well ingrained way of life.
I believe we will have to learn this as well. Our waistlines will thank us as well as our pocketbooks .
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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to mike pipes...OK MEATLOAF!!!!!!!...ill go with al franken...but give me a break gilbert godfry..NO WAY YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKIN BOUT!!!
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Yea, and Toad rode a Vespa As far as the nerd with the hot chick, I believe the Richard Dryfuss character had a line in the movie along the lines of "Nerds get all the chicks"
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
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