posted
Glenn - that distributor's explanation would make sense to me, actually, as you describe it....except for this: When oil prices go up and gas takes a jump - it is immediate and large....when the price of oil goes down, gas prices go down slowly and a little at a time.
I guarantee you that if oil today was, say, $75 a barrel and it fell tomorrow to $67....the price wouldn't go down nearly as quickly or reflect as large a decrease as if the scenario was reversed.
Plus I would bet that your local distributor has a reasonably good pulse on market forcasting and he would buy cheap and fill his storage tanks to capacity when the price was low and hold out as long as he could as prices rise before replentishing his supply.
He knows how much fuel his storage tanks output in a given week/month. I don't believe they are quite as "at the mercy" of their suppliers as he might suggest.
It's a little like asking the Fox what happened in the henhouse....don't you think?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Sure is Todd...if you see Government as the fox and private enterprise as the chickens.
Actually Todd, I lived about 6 months without buying gas. I rode my bike or walked to work everyday. Granted, I didn't live but a mile from the shop. But you know, I live five miles from it now, and if gas gets too high I'll dust off the Cannondale and ride it again. Right now I'll pay the $3.00 a gallon convenience charge. If Exxon wants to make 8 cents profit per gallon off me being to lazy to ride my bike to work why should the government be there to stop them? I'm too lazy to haul my own garbage to the dump and I'm pretty sure the government isn't telling the dumpster company they have to lower their prices for it.
Gas is not life critical. Trust me, I've never run out of gas in my truck and thought "****, if I don't get to a gas station quick I'll die!" I have pushed it up the road and thought I'd die from embarassment, maybe that's what you meant.
By the way Todd, I'm pretty sure that the revolution won't be a North vs. South thing. I'm thinking a whole different kind of division...lol.
[ April 26, 2006, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by old paint: so this got nothing to do with either party....DUH!!!!!!! READ THIS AGAIN GLENN...... or get youre eyes examined ..old man....boy talk about hard headed people
OP,
I have read it and you have convinced me beyond a doubt of your economic illiteracy. Perhaps you can educate us on last year's energy bill; its connection to farmers; who authored it; and, who pushed it.
Next, who filibustered the bill in the Senate to open ANWR?
Who in Congress required the use of MTBE in gasoline and then who said Big Oil should be sued for using it?
Who required that different formulations of gasoline be used to help fight regional air polution even though doing so pushed up the price of gas with no evidence that the reformulations worked in the first place?
Here's a primer for you on why gasoline prices have jumped so high.
First, you must understand that oil is a product whose price is set by the global commodities market, and the price fluctuates every day. Worldwide demand for oil is skyrocketing due to increased economic growth in developing nations, particularly India and China. India’s annual growth rate is 7 percent; China is growing at 9 percent annually. Each country has over a billion people.
Secondly, U.S. oil refineries presently are not operating at full capacity. Not all of the Gulf Coast refineries damaged by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita are fully operational, but should be back online in a few more months. Also, many of refineries in the Gulf are undergoing routine maintenance that was either scheduled for this spring or put off following the hurricanes to keep the nation supplied with as much gas as possible during that critical time.
Third, contributing to increased oil and gas prices is market uncertainty, caused by the silly rhetoric from Iranian President Ahmadinejad and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Then there are the militant attacks by the Ijaw tribe in Niger.
Now, you tell me how you would fix these things since you know so much.
posted
You guys get to work now! Too much time spent here on nothin'. I'm gonna have to borrow some money for gas from ya later on. So get back to work an' quit jawwn'.
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3489 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Steve - you go through 20 boxes of cereal a week? Maybe Kennedy needs to rethink those offshore windmills....hehehehe.
I'll tell you what's life critical: Sex. If man cannot afford to drive to Walmart 20 miles from his house and buy condoms.....this country is going to have problems like we've never seen before.
Glenn - It's obvious you are more studied than most on such matters. And that I will concede. But if you think there isn't widespread corruption, greed, and gouging going on in the oil industry...you need to turn the page and keep reading.
It even goes on at the local level. There is a "club" here where I live that all the stations within a given area belong. They have banded together and they all raise their prices to the same amount on the same day each week (Thursday, because that's the day of and day before the State employees and GM employees get paid) and then lower it back down on Tuesday.
A few of the smaller outlying towns aren't in the "club" and they are often a nickel to sometimes 15 cents a gallon cheaper.
Although that is tightening up now too....they may be forming their own "club."
However, I have discovered a new source of energy that if exploitable and refined could solve our energy problems. I'm going to call it LBS....Letterville Bull $heet.
I alone contribute enough to help solve our energy woes....and with the 2 or 3 other windbags in this post - we could all become millionaires overnight.
what do you say? Let's see if this can be converted into a viable energy source.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
Glenn...I don't know what anything you've said means, but it sure is impressive.
One thing I don't understand is how this could be a political party issue when the problem is world wide. Surely, the democrats or the republicans don't control the whole world.
There is one thing that I DO know and that is...the problem is still going to be there no matter what I think about it.
-------------------- Chapman Sign Studio Temple, Texas chapmanstudio@sbcglobal.net Posts: 6306 | From: Temple, Texas, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Todd, I just remembered that Bullhead City comment. Give them another call and ask about gas prices now, you'll get a very different story. Through the winter the gas prices did stabilize but we're in boating season now so the prices will now jump 6 cents every Thursday or Friday, then drop 3 cents on Monday.
The gas prices certainly are not stopping people from bringing their boats out to play.. then again, when they all live in California, have a $300,000 summer home in the desert, drive a $70,000 SUV to tow a $400,000 powerboat which will consume $2,000 in fuel over the weekend, they're not worried about it.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
Todd....I hate to disillusion you, but....the guy in the gas station does not stock up anticipating a jump in price! The gasoline in his tanks is not his! (Unless he is an independant.)It belongs to the rfinery, and is there on consignment.
If he has the new pumps that take credit or debit cards, he doesn't even control the prices. It is all done by sattelite link, and controlled by the mainframe computer, at the oil company. The average gas tation is making a whopping 6¢ per gallon! Then figure in $3000 to $6000 per month rent, and all the other overhead...no one is getting rich.
How do I know all this? I have a cousin that runs one and many customers that I service.
[ April 26, 2006, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
-------------------- Si Allen #562 La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
si.allen on Skype
siallen@dslextreme.com
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"
Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!
Brushasaurus on Chat Posts: 8831 | From: La Mirada, CA, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Surely, the democrats or the republicans don't control the whole world.
Raymond, Raymond, Raymond...don't you know that the entire world is controlled by the Illuminati, who are in turn controlled by the shape-shifting lizard men. It's true, you can find out all about it on the same sites Todds been gathering the rest of his "facts" from.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
GLENN YOU STILL DIDNT READ IT RIGHT...1 more time..."this got nothing to do with either party"!!!!!! thats what i said....i dont know what the reason is for youre rant....youre confussed ...........as for someone bein not to intelligent here......it aint me.....but keep goin glenn....maybe you can take scott meclands place......hehehehehehehehehe
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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Raymond, Raymond, Raymond...don't you know that the entire world is controlled by the Illuminati, who are in turn controlled by the shape-shifting lizard men.
Oh no, not another one that believes Earth has a hollow core..
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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posted
So much for the post not turning political, huh?
Don, I'd like some more info on buying "Small Oil" too. That's the ticket! If enough people stop buying from Exxon/Mobile, their prices have to come down; it's a supply and demand thing.
Now what really bugs me is I just bought a 2002 Dodge Caravan that will run on ethanol which I think is really cool. The problem? No Ethanol! Not a drop to be found around these parts, at least not in California. I think there's one station in San Francisco and one in San Diego, only they don't sell to the public. What's up with that?
-------------------- Tracie Johnson Signovations Ventura, California Posts: 444 | From: Ventura, California | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
I didn't take the time to read every ones post. This is just to funny. We can bitch all we want. Blame this and blame them, but in the end your bitchin at the pump while you fuel up. If you really think you can make a difference, buy a horse and buggy. Or a bike. If not, you can bitch until your blue in the face and until the powers that be can't make money off of oil we are buying' for our rides, they aint gonna get back to what it was.
The world sucks, get used to it. Or become a world saver. Last one I heard of was Jesus....
-------------------- Snow's Sign Works 865-908-0076 snowman@planetc.com www.snowsigns.com
I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message... Posts: 1640 | From: Sevierville, TN | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
here's the way I figger' on this deal from all sides.......... If ya have to put a silk dress, some lace and a gob of eye shadow on a pig, at the end of the day this content is still a pig. Way too much info about nuthin' when it's simply about a case of counting the chickens before they hatch.
Futures Brokers, period........... The corp, sells to itself from initial purchase of oil at the crude end, the corp then refines, then sells itself the end product, the corp then puts it on the market, (futures) buyers go nuts and then corp sells to end user thru gas station. There is about 4 or more spikes before it hits the gas tank. It's still a Pig. You still pay, so shut up.
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: A few of the smaller outlying towns aren't in the "club" and they are often a nickel to sometimes 15 cents a gallon cheaper.
That's not a "club". It's attributable simply to the difference in local gas taxes. For example, Ft.Myers is ALWAYS 15¢ higher than St.Petersburg. Always. Because of a 15¢ difference in local gasoline tax.
posted
Ro, did you just call the Majik Man a bitch?!?!?! Now, THAT'S a bitch!
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6453 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
glenn...YOU ARE THE ONE BRINGING IN POLITICS..SO.. YOU BELIVE MR. 32% JOB APPROVAL IS doing a better job then all who opposed all the things you listed? hahahahahahahahahahaha yep youre ready to take scott meclanands job....defending total incompetence....i could list all the DUMB THINGS that SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN DONE...maybe we would be in a better place to deal with the ones we need to.....DUH!!!!!!!you voted for all hes done .....I DIDNT!!! iam done.
[ April 27, 2006, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
i think its like everything else in the us....corruption. someone is gettting their pockets fed. i think alot of people are getting their pockets fed. the world is going to hell in a ahand basket.
well thats my cheery thought for the day
-------------------- You ever notice how easily accessible people are when they are requiring your services but once they get invoice you can't reach them anymore
quote:Originally posted by old paint: glenn...YOU ARE THE ONE BRINGING IN POLITICS..SO.. YOU BELIVE MR. 32% JOB APPROVAL IS doing a better job then all who opposed all the things you listed? hahahahahahahahahahaha yep youre ready to take scott meclanands job....defending total incompetence....i could list all the DUMB THINGS that SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN DONE...maybe we would be in a better place to deal with the ones we need to.....DUH!!!!!!!you voted for all hes done .....I DIDNT!!! iam done.
OP,
There are two arena's at play where the price of fuel is concerned - Domestic and International.
There is little that we can do on the International level as long as oil prices continue to be subject to market forces which is as it should be.
On the Domestic level, there is a lot that can be done. Unfortunately, it has a lot more to do with politics than reality. Poll numbers are what they are. So are principles. What bothers me is the lack of people's knowledge of how things work. And unfortunately, we have politicians willing to take advantage of that.
Lets go back to Patrick's original comment about the CEO getting a $400m retirement package. An idiot (politician) from California suggested last night that a 50% windfall profits tax be imposed on him. Well, excuse me but the CEO is already going to be paying over 40% in taxes so what is the idiot whining about?
Anytime someone gets more than another person think he deserves there is always someone demanding something be done about it.
The reason why we are paying such high prices in gasoline is because we refuse to let capitalism and free enterprise reign. Sure, we pay lip service to it but we don't really mean it. If we did, we wouldn't begrudge the CEO for what he got.
Then we whine about how much profit the oil companies make. Have you or anyone else thought about the profit the government is making on oil? Government makes nearly 4 times as much profit! Why aren't we protesting about that?
posted
Here is a "visual" to grasp the enormity of the money that is being made and spent. It will help you wrap your brain around the figures for the quarterly profits about to be released today for the Oil companies.
Remember it also when you try to grasp how much of our money has gone and will go to the war in Iraq.
If a dollar were a second then 1 million would be 11.6 days 1 billion would be 31.7 years and one trillion 16.8 centuries.
Look at the national debt as of last night: $ 8 363 547 954 276,35 - that's 8 trillion, and it increases at 2.06 billion a day.
Sobering, and most definitely political, unless nobody we elected is watching or responsible for anything. =============================== I second Joe's motion for Glenn becoming the White House Press Secretary, I laughed out loud about it because it had occurred to me as well. No way, even with all the preparation and practice he had at Fox news, could Tony Snow do half the job that could be done by our own Glenn Taylor.
Maybe next time. We still have 1000 days til regime change, as of today. ==============================
(It's possible that I am a day, a dollar, a second or a million off in my figures. Everything is fluid. The meat of what I am saying is still rancid. So don't flame me over trivia or get persomal to make it smell better, it won't work)
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I admit to not reading the majority of this thread - hell, I know most of you well enough to know your POV, and most of this is just the same-old same-old.
Look. It's like this. If gas had risen 15 to 20 cents a year for the past ten years - a few cents a month - it would be four bucks a gallon by now with nobody hollering, because it's STILL cheaper than what most of the world pays.
That, and there's a big upside to this that no one ever mentions. When prices get this high, a lot of clever people start thinking about how to make a buck by coming up with alternate sources. Notice I didn't say "thinking about how to save humanity/the planet/etc", I said "make a buck". Because whether you and your political beliefs like it or not, the only way we are not dependent on petroleum is if somebody, somewhere, figures out how to make a profit on something other means of making things go.
Don't expect the corporate flacks at the oil companies or the guvmint slugwads to do it - the really bright, creative, risk-taking people it takes to change the world aren't working there, and never will. As soon as another source of motive power becomes cheaper and more reliable than petroleum, oil will be done for, and the only people looking back will be the dopes that didn't see it coming.
As for who is making obscene profits now, I could give a rat's a$$. Lot's of people might think making $1200 for four hours work (which I did yesterday - by hand lettering) is obscene profit, too. Come around and tell me I can't, and all you will get is a war.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
WHY HAVE YOU MORONS GOTTEN THIS SO FAR OFF TRACK YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE WHERE YOU STARTED?!
Come on, is there nothing out there that makes you happy Glenn? Why the hell are you in here preaching with four page long piles of crap that nobody is going to read? You want me to go copy and paste the Monroe Doctrine for you? OP I understand because I think half of what he posts is just poking at you with a stick to see what kind or rant you'll offer up next.
Then Myra, for some reason you felt the need to drag the defecit and the war in Iraq into what was started off as a discussion about whether a company should have the right to make a profit. And to bring up a comment about how much the war is costing but only offer up figures about something else entirely is ridiculous.
The very fact this thing has made it over 70 posts is bad enough, but hey, lets all turn it into a political football and see how high we can get! Ready, here we go...George Bush is actually shape shifting alien who's not a Christian, he's secretly the child of Muslim and Jewish parents, who firmly believes that we should be a socialist country and that it's his Buddah given right to lead the charge against the evil democrats all while raping us for all the tax dollars he can collect and funnel to Halliburton. There you go, have at it.
Amen.
Edited to say: Thanks Cam, that's what I hoped this was gonna be a discussion of.
[ April 27, 2006, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Myra - I agree about the War in Iraq costing too much.
Here's how it should have gone:
Day 1 of conflict - US drops 3 well placed hydrogen bombs on Iraq. No more Iraqi's. We take over their oil.
Day 2 of conflict - Iran, Syria, etc all call for Holy Jihad against the US and it's allies.
Day 3 of conflict - US drops 20 Hydrogen bombs on the rest of those Bastids. No more overseas whackos. Again, we take over their oil.
Day 4 of conflict - Whacko imigrants domestically begin ranting and raving and declare holy domestic terror.
Day 5 of conflict- Every red blooded american grabs their AR-15 off the rack above their fireplace and seek out the bastids. (you do have an AR_15 handy right? If not-shame on you.) The peaceful ones are sent to Mexico....the rest, well....you know the rest of the story.
Problem solved in less than one work week.
We have the oil, and I am pleased as punch to pay 28 cents per gallon of gas for the next 50 years.
If you reply to this in complete outrage - your chain has been effectively yanked. My job is done.
And let me call myself a Moron before you do....sorry to assurp your satisfaction.
What does this post have to do with making signs anyway? Now let's all get back to using our talents to make signs.
I've solved the oil/gas problem. No animals were hurt. We can all settle down and focus on that funny squeel our cheap plotters are making.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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I am of a mind to think that the war, (many think it was started to secure a source of oil for our dependency), the difficulty in paying for a tank of gas right now which prompted your post, and the deficit (partly made up of the two billion or so we spend a week on this war)
are related.
I'm sorry I did not make that clear.
And Todd: YO! I'm proud of you. You thought this thing through. Goforitalready.
-------------------- Myra A. Grozinger Signs Limited Winston-Salem, NC
signslimited@triad.rr.com Posts: 1244 | From: Winston-Salem, NC USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Patrick Whatley: WHY HAVE YOU MORONS GOTTEN THIS SO FAR OFF TRACK YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE WHERE YOU STARTED?!
You started the thread...so I guess you feel you're the only one who's allowed to stand on the soapbox? Everyone here has just as much right to express their thoughts and opinions.
Name calling ("morons") works great too...help others realize the level of education and professionalism the writer is working with.
Glenn- Keep posting those 4 page long piles... some of us do read them.
[ April 27, 2006, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
-------------------- Brian Snyder Sign Effectz Woodbridge, New Jersey Posts: 723 | From: Woodbridge, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
This is such a funny thread. In the time it took me to read it, I made a $hit load of money. I can pay for my gas even if it goes up to $10.00 gal.
Who gives a rats a$$ how much money everyone else makes. People should mind their own business when it comes to other peoples money. We live in the land of opportunity to make as much as we want. Im here for the money and little else. You're either in the top 20% with all the money or the bottom 80% wishing you had the 20% money. I plan to be in the 20% if I can help it. I'm no hipocryte nor do I care what anybody else really thinks.
You people get so bent out of shape pretty easy. What really amazes me is why Steve hasnt locked this puppy away. Its the same old rhetoric as before.
[ April 27, 2006, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Bob Stephens ]
-------------------- Bob Stephens Skywatch Signs Zephyrhills, FL
posted
You're right Brian, I probably shouldn't have said moron. I just get annoyed that the same 6 people turn everything they discuss into some political conspiracy/religious/****ing contest.
I did start a post about capitalism and free market economics. I also asked in the very first line to not discuss the political side of it. Anyone is welcome to stand on their soapbox as far as I'm concerned. This particular soapbox had PROFITS painted on the front of it.
Now I'm off to more important things...like my 11:30 tee time...err....sign installation I've gotta go do.
-------------------- Pat Whatley Montgomery, AL (334) 262-7446 office (334) 324-8465 cell Posts: 1306 | From: Wetumpka, AL USA | Registered: Mar 2001
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