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» The Letterville BullBoard » Letterhead/Pinstriper Talk » Wheres the beef? (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Wheres the beef?
John Deaton
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Ive been watching the ongoing situation in louisiana and mississippi, people dying as we speak, and still no help to speak of. A country as great and powerful as the United States, and still we cant get it together and help these people out. I know there are problems with snipers and such, but those people have been there for five or six days now and begging for food, water and a way out. I cant even watch it anymore. Little babies crying with no food to eat, one mother even gave her baby to someone that got on one of the buses to make sure it got to safety, and I saw one school bus a young boy had gotten to get people out. Im not gonna point fingers, but Id say after this is all over, which will be a long time, some reorganization will be in order. I pray for em every day.

[ September 02, 2005, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]

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Maker of fine signs and
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Todd Gill
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John - take heart. The Government is, in fact doing a lot to help. You have to remember that in addition to rescuing people and delivering food,they have to plug all the breaches in the levies that collapsed, try and drain several square miles of flooded land, repair the damaged power infrastructure, get fuel flowing to the rest of the country...and on and on and on.

It's not like this happened to small ol' Potterville, Michigan. This is an enormous undertaking that none of us can probably even comprehend unless we were physically there and involved.

Here is another big reason why they can't help out people as expeditiously as they'd like: There are armed gangs of thugs shooting at the rescue helicopters....and the rescue folks have been chased away...so we have armed, military experienced National Guardsmen going there with "shoot-to-kill" orders - - apparantly it's *that* bad of a problem.

Read this Yahoo news link and you'll see the problems they are facing from these low-life, opportunistic thugs:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050902/ts_nm/weather_katrina_wrap_dc


I hate to say it...but a bullet between their eyes is the quickest way to move that obstical out of the way to help people that truly want to be rescued. [Frown]

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Kissymatina
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Rescue workers put their own lives on the line & face a lot of dangers when they try to help others, part of that should NOT be being shot at by those they are trying to help.

The loudmouth newscasters are complaining that there are bodies everywhere and no one is doing anything about it. Sending in rescue workers while these slugs are shooting at them would only create more bodies for the newscasters to bitch about and less rescue workers to help.

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Chris Welker
Wildfire Signs
Indiana, Pa

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Barry Branscum
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I can't quit either John (lol)

As to the situation...I hate that the time has come for such abrupt measures...but it is alos appropriate. The innocent, the sick and the helpless cannot be sacrificed because we are afraid to deal with thugs that are in effect trying to thwart rescue efforts and hold the city, (or its remains) hostage.

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Barry Branscum

Master's Touch
DESIGNS
www.masterstouchsigns.com

no, my signshop website is not finished....still.

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Todd Gill
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More evidence of roadblocks by armed thugs - - these guys are like Sudan Warlords:

http://cnn.worldnews.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=CNN.com+-+Gunmen+target+medical+convoy+-+Sep+1%2C+2005&expire=-1&urlID=15383133&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com %2F2005%2FWEATHER%2F09%2F01%2Fkatrina.impact%2Findex.html&partnerID=2006

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Mark Perkins
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Todd,
FEMA spent a week down here last fall developing a plan for just such a disaster. Despite that they were terribly prepared, no single person seems to be in charge, our governor is crying on tv, that's real leadership [Roll Eyes]

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Mark Perkins
Performance Signs &
Graphics
Eunice, Louisiana
"The heart of Cajun
Country"

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Todd Gill
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I'm sorry to hear that Mark...

I just watched Pres Bush being briefed by the governors from Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana...and they all made a point about how great the response from FEMA has been in light of the extent of the devastation.

But I don't know...cause I'm not there and haven't been affected...could be political bluster.

But it does appear watching live news that there is a lot of effort being put forth.

Hope things kick in to everyone's satisfaction soon.

I'd still like to see a couple of the armed thugs get cut down...sorry, but those people are of the worst calibre of human beings in my book.

Edit: I should add that Bush did say that there are some problems that haven't been acceptable and that they are being addressed....hopefully they will. It's a massive operation to supervise.

[ September 02, 2005, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Tony Vickio
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If what we have been watching is our country's Disaster Plan........We ARE F***ed! This is most disgraceful, sickening disaster I have ever see. Not the hurricae, but the response!

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Tony Vickio
The World Famous Vickio Signs
3364 Rt.329
Watkins Glen, NY 14891
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John Deaton
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Todd, you must be watching different news than I am. Like Tony said, the response has been horrible. ALot of the people have just started walking out on their own. They need to deal with the thugs and thieves with quick judgement. People are the most important thing here. Nothing else. Human lives are top priority. If they cant deal with the gangs of thugs, they need to get someone who can. Those people have to be helped. And Kissy, if it wasnt for the newspeople that are there, we wouldnt know anything that was going on. They could be biased in their reporting, I dont know. I probably would be too, if I saw what was going on down there.

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Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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old paint
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12:20 pm friday. #1. the stories of helicopters geing shot at...has been nothing more THEN JUST THAT...A STORY that blown outa porportion(reported on CNN). the thugs shooting at cops IS FACT!!!
the mayor of NO. was just on tv...READING THE RIOT ACT...to end all the PRESS BRIEFINGS ...AND FOR THE FED GOVT TO GET OFF THEIR A.S.S.E.S. and get some relief to these people...NOW!!!!!!
i can speak from experiance(sept 14, 2004)of the wide spread devastation that happened in my own small spot in this world. the day after IVAN....power trucks, trailers with ice, distrbution centers, blue roof managment, and FEMA....WHERE ALL IN PLACE WITHIN 48 HOURS!!!!
again i say to those of you who HAVENT BEEN HERE....stop defending P.I.S.S. poor govt intervention......yes this is 10 greater then IVAN, but to each comunity its very small, as they see it.......most have no idea how wide spread the devastation is. but are concerenred with SURVIVAL......of themself and family and freinds.
within 2 hours after IVAN was done, we on the street where we lived was all tryin to help our neighbors clear drive ways, give imeadiate relief, food, water, shelter and showers.......so WE WHO HAVE BEEN EXPOSED to this sort of radical change of lifestyle can attest to how things where handled when WE WHERE THE SUBJECTS of SURVIVAL MODE LIVING.
iam sure don, cheryl, and the rest who have had to live thru these conditions can attest to what iam saying......and i will say the govt can drop food to IRAQS, mobilize a war 6000 miles away, kepp it suppied with troops, food, water, medicine, machinery....AND CANT GET THEIR S.H.I.T. together in their own backyard.....INDEFENCABLE is the word of the day!!!!!!!!

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
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BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

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Don Coplen
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Shortreed:

What the hell is going on with all of you? Instead of using this forum as a tool to help our friends in trouble, the same old gang is playing politics once again.

There are at least 2 dear friends we have not heard from at this point. I'm worried about Kathy, RT and all the others that need help. Can't we concentrate on using our energies to suggest ideas that fix the problem instead of the blame?

I suggest each of us all think about doing something. I for one am sick and tired of seeing this crap. Take your political and religious rantings somewhere else.

Sure looks to me like Steve posted that in English. Why do so many seem to not understand a word of it?

So far as I can see, Steve locked this post thread before it was even started. He has plenty on his plate, between his son, his heart and things we don't even know, without having to babysit this board.

[ September 02, 2005, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]

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...

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John Deaton
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I didnt start anything political here Don.
OP might be ranting a little, but thats about it.
This is something affecting alot of people. If Steve dont like this post, he can lock it too.
We all got alot on our plates.

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Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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Todd Gill
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The great and powerful OZ has spoken...

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Mark Perkins
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It's the largest disaster to ever hit this country, we should be able to talk about it and keep politics out of it, I don't care who is the president or what party is in office it wouldn't have made any difference in the response, they just weren't as prepared as they should have been.
We had an evacuated person arrested in my lil town last night, he was caught breaking into the office of the church that was giving him shelter...two truck stop casinos here in Eunice have closed because most law enforcement is in New Orleans and the truck stops don't want all the video poker money to be an attraction as they now have no security except rent a cops. They have a police officer at out Wal Mart 24 hrs a day...kinda scary situation

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Mark Perkins
Performance Signs &
Graphics
Eunice, Louisiana
"The heart of Cajun
Country"

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Todd Gill
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http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

Why didn't the mayor deploy these buses...knowing full well what was coming..and knowing people needed transportation to evacuate?

He's doing a lot of complaining...but it looks like HE HIMSELF could have done more before it hit???

Just askin.

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Bobbie Rochow
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I was thinking of that, too, Todd. Too bad he didn't think to get a bunch of buses in his city before it hit, to get the people out.

But it doesn't help to keep thinking of what COULD have been done, does it?

I just cannot keep myself from thinking about all this. I found that even tho I prefer FOX news, I get a better view of what is going on by switching to different stations.

When I saw those people being interviewed & SAW & FELT what they were going through, then my heart was overcome. The public NEEDS to see this, & to hear it from their mouths.

PLEASE, whatever you guys do, please do not get nasty with each other, ok? It is so that good we can come here to share our thoughts & opinions & news with each other, but let's not turn on each other! I mean, this is HORRENDOUS, how can we avoid talking about it? But let's stay peaceful with each other & respect each other's opinions, ok?

I think Steve only locks these posts when we get nasty & hurl direct insults at each other.

As someone else says on this site,..... Peace out...

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The Word in Signs
Bobbie Rochow
Jamestown, PA 16134

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Cheryl Lucas
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quote:
It's the largest disaster to ever hit this country, we should be able to talk about it and keep politics out of it,
I agree!

This situation, isn't going to go away anytime soon. Add to that, some of our own 'Letterville family' live and work in this zone! Their homes and livelihoods have been destroyed. Their lives turned upside-down. 'They', (and we) have family and friends who are also sharing this experience.

We NEED to talk about it. WE CARE!

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Co-Host:
SANDCASTLE Panel Jam
'a Dixie Letterhead Reunion'
Fort Myers, Florida

Cheryl Lucas a/k/a "Shag" on mIRC
Vital Signs & Graphics, Etc.
Cape Coral, Florida
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VSignsNgraphics@aol.com

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Si Allen
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Hey! Let's get real!

11million bottles of water and MREs, 20,000 cots and blankets, 130 million pounds of ice, medical supplies, etc. DON'T magically appear!

All that stuff had to be collected, put on trucks and driven into New Orleans from other states...over roads that are almost impassable!

The local Office of Emergency Preparedness did NOTHING. The Mayor did nothing! The Governor did nothing! All they have done so far is pose before TV cameras and bitch about the federal government! We are shown pictures of hundreds of school busses sitting in place flooded out! Why weren't they activated as soon as the levy was breached? Why didn't the Governor call out the National Guard, as she could have done herself?


I tried to stay out of this...BUT... when you start blaming people....at least place the blame on those who deserve it...the complete failure of local and state officials!

Just my 2˘

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

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John Deaton
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The blame lays solely on our leaders and emergency organizations. They've done nothing until today, just stood by and wished it would go away. If ever something like this happens again, they now know what NOT to do.
But god forbid we put any blame on our government. [Roll Eyes]

[ September 02, 2005, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]

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Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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Bruce Williams
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What John Deaton has pointed out has already become an international scandal. Somebody here said yesterday that more helicopters and National Guardsmen might be available, if so many weren't in Iraq. Dispute it all you want in USA, but lots of folks in the rest of the world are thinking the same thing.

As yall may know, levees along navigable waterways are the responsibility of the Army Corps of Engineers. That branch has been complaining for a couple years that money they need is being diverted to you-know-where.

It was embarrassing to hear, along with the rest of the world, that Bushie II had to cut short his vacation to deal with Katrina -- after she had landed. Presidente Chávez of Venezuela called him "the king of vacations," and then offered assistance! Chávez, of course, is guessing that the rest of the world has forgot that flooded parts of Venezuela are still disasters after 5 years. But you see what happens in a world that pays more attention to appearance than to substance, when you do something that "looks bad."

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Bruce Williams
Lexington KY

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Myra Grozinger
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Our Secretary of State, (I see what Bruce just wrote) actually took those two days of Mr. Bushes, where he cut back on his five weeks, as her own.
On Tuesday night she went to a comedy on Broadway, and on Wed some woman screamed at her in a department store about being selfish, as she was buying $ 3000 worth of shoes. Condoleeza, who seemed not to be needed in this National Emergency, had the woman arrested.

Now to something else:

Since we all are "jus askin" to quote Todd,

Does anyone have any idea why the aid that was offered in the last 3 days from
Canada/Sweden/France/Russia/Germany/Venezuela/China and more has been either summarily rejected or some countries are still waiting for answers from President GWBush?

"The Military Leaders of the United States have declined, and for this reason: “The United States Government and its People Respectfully Decline your offer of assistance and refer you to our previous State Department Bulletin (NCO:13788) in which we had stated that this remains an internal action.”

Which of the "United States and it's people" were they speaking for?
You and me and all of the miserable wretches suffering and waiting for a split screen of a smiling President and more than late aid and troops?

Venezuela has offered their Medical Airlift Command for the evacuation of peoples trapped in these devastated regions; Holland has offered the resources of their Public Works Ministry (and who are the acknowledged World Experts for below sea level water evacuation procedures); Russia has offered over 100,000 temporary living structures, along with Military Personal to assist their American counterparts; Iran has offered 1 Billion US Dollars in immediate assistance and guaranteed 5,000,000 barrels of oil at $35.00 US Dollars; China has offered their Military Rescue Forces (Who are acknowledged as one of the best in the world for rescuing peoples in flood ravaged areas.)
And this is only some of what I could find.

So, I'm "jus askin".
Anyone know the answer? Rejecting that help in our names looks to me even more loony a decision as to shoot at rescue helicopters.

Now :
Either you're gonna be shocked because you did not know, and want proof so you can attack the source, and are freed up to continue to defend the incompetent.

Or you bypass reality and just attack me, which is simpler.

Or you look into it, and find out that this really happened.

[ September 02, 2005, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Myra Grozinger ]

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Myra A. Grozinger
Signs Limited
Winston-Salem, NC

signslimited@triad.rr.com

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Don Coplen
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quote:
Originally posted by John Deaton III:
I didnt start anything political here Don.

Oh, we all can certainly see that, John.
[Rolling On The Floor]

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...

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Todd Gill
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I'm for simple....c'mon Gavin...it's time for an appearance - - kick some a$$.

[ September 02, 2005, 04:54 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Harris Kohen
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What a joke you people are!


like I said, a bunch of armchair quarterbacks!!!!!!

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!!

I volunteered to go there and help for a 30 day shift, what did you do?

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Harris Kohen
K-Man Pinstriping
and Graphix
Trenton, NJ
"Showing the world that even
I can strategically place the
pigment where its got to
go."

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Todd Gill
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One, two, three, four.....I hear it coming....

"CLICK"

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Myra Grozinger
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Since I wrote my little piece above, Ms Rice is nowon TV thanking over 60 nations for their help, and saying:

"No offer of help has been rejected".
the flipside was "No offer of help has been accepted".

Some man has been appointed to look over the offers and see how they would match with the needs.

Nations I found that Have Offered Katrina Hurricane Aid:

Russia
Japan
Canada
France
Honduras
Germany
Venezuela
Jamaica
Australia
UK/Northern Ireland
Netherlands
Switzerland
Greece
Hungary
Colombia
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Mexico
China
South Korea
Israel
United Arab Emirates
Taiwan
Sri Lanka
Singapore

I suppose, as this is in flux, time will tell what that man who was appointed will decide, and what the answer will be to the people at the ready to help.

I hope when they get the final answer they're still willing. If I were in charge, they would be here already, I can look at my TV and see just where they could be of use.

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Myra A. Grozinger
Signs Limited
Winston-Salem, NC

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Bobbie Rochow
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No, No, No!!!!!! Be nice, PLEASE!!!!!!

Some of us really do want to talk about this, ok? I know you guys are kidding around, but PLEASE don't let it get mean & messy & nasty & all that again, ok?

THINK before you post. Please do not ruin what could be a GOOD post by attacking each other. I was really hoping that someone would start another one so we could try to be civilized about it & talk decently.

Just because you don't like what someone says, .... ok, so you don't like it! Don't retaliate, ok?

I am just saying this so maybe the poo-poo will not hit the fan. We seem to be ok so far....

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The Word in Signs
Bobbie Rochow
Jamestown, PA 16134

724-927-6471

thewordinsigns@alltel.net

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Steve Shortreed
Deceased Mayor


Member # 436

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Hey Gang... Letterville is a community. It really don't matter where our Family lives. When one of us is in trouble, the whole Community is involved.

Barb and I are very concerned about those who need help. Bickering and pointing fingers does nothing constructive. At times like this the last thing I want to hear is more Conservative vs Liberal junk.

Mark Smith has offered to match financial donations to the Red Cross. That's something we can all do that may make a difference right now. There's another idea we have been talking about.

There is a benefit to losing everything material. Many are now free to begin a new life. If there is a Letterhead out there that would like to start over here in Ontario, we would consider helping your Family get that start.

At this point we are just tossing out an idea. If each of us could help just one person, it could make a big difference. Any other ideas?

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Steve Shortreed
144 Hill St., E.
Fergus, Ontario
Canada N1M 1G9
519-787-2673

steve@letterville.com

www.letterville.com/profiles/shortreed/

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Bruce Williams
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Bobbie said
'No, No, No!!!!!! Be nice, PLEASE!!!!!!. . .I am just saying this so maybe the poo-poo will not hit the fan. We seem to be ok so far...."
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Don't worry. John Deaton said it all the first time: It is a national disaster, the US gov't has done a shameful job of responding (late) so far, and this shouldn't happen again.

New Orleans, the birthplace of Jazz and a lot more American culture, may be lost to the world. Its heritage may go in 2 directions: A backwater refuge for beggars and thieves, and a scattered, permanent refugee population.

You know, on the 8th of January 1815, Andy Jackson and a bunch of hillbilly sharpshooter saved that place from capture by the British. It would have been a different world if that assault had succeded, and it will be a different world after Ms Kat nearly 200 years later.

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Bruce Williams
Lexington KY

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Bruce Williams
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Steve said
"At this point we are just tossing out an idea. If each of us could help just one person, it could make a big difference. Any other ideas?"
-------------------

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Bruce Williams
Lexington KY

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Bruce Williams
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At this point we are just tossing out an idea. If each of us could help just one person, it could make a big difference. Any other ideas?

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Bruce Williams
Lexington KY

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Bruce Williams
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Steve said
"At this point we are just tossing out an idea. If each of us could help just one person, it could make a big difference. Any other ideas?"
---------------
Best idea so far. Can we be reasonably sure that we're getting the help to the right people?

(This note tried to send itself a couple times before it was finished, so sorry about that.)

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Bruce Williams
Lexington KY

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Bobbie Rochow
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You know what, I think that if we will just wait & see what happens down the line, we will find out exactly what happened & the reasons certain decisions were made. It is utter chaos right now, & we are all hearing so many different things. We do not know what the real truth is, but our own preferances get us to lean the way we want to believe. Let's give it some time & see what happens.

And prayer may sound lame, but it is NOT. Those people need our prayers & any other way we can help them.

Steve, that is a very generous offer. I like hearing that.

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The Word in Signs
Bobbie Rochow
Jamestown, PA 16134

724-927-6471

thewordinsigns@alltel.net

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John Deaton
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I dont give a damn if anyone believes that I didnt start this thread to be political. I said I didnt, and if that aint good enough, suck air.
Now we got TOdd wanting Gavin to come on here and "kick ass". Todd, I do believe you spend most of your time on here surfing threads, just looking for a fight, or looking for someone to say something about you know who. Ive stayed off of that out of respect for the board, and still will, but I could say plenty. I started this thread out of desperation and worry for some of our fellow americans who are suffering horribly in louisiana. Its absolutely disgusting that until today, nothing was done. Si argues that they basically should take care of themselves. Not! They are citizens of this country, and they are in need of help, and we have the money and resources to do that. Those people should have been cleared out of that area days ago.
Oh yeah Harris, Id be glad to go down there, but in the meantime, I made a donation to the red cross and have called on friends and family to do the same. Im pretty sure they'll do their best to help out. Hey Barry, scoot over, I might need a place to sit.

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Maker of fine signs and
other creative stuff.
Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave.
Harlan, Ky. 40831
606-837-0242

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Mikes Mischeif
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So the real question in the end will be: Do you rebuild a city that sits below sea level and is surrounded by water, and risks even greater damage in the future by a direct hit?

What landfill do you "put" a ruined city in?

The ecologocal damage to the ocean is yet to be seen when they pump all that crap into the sea.

It aint over till it's over.

Get past the current situation, and think about the future. It's gonna be a hard long road.

[ September 02, 2005, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Mikes Mischeif ]

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Mike Duncan
Lettercraft Signs

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Todd Gill
Resident


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John...I'm not looking for a fight! You wanna make something of it?! Hehehehehe...dude...the sarcasm of that last post obviously isn't making it through the keyboards.

Everybody cares John...have a good one. [Smile]

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Todd Gill
Outside The Lines
Potterville, MI

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Si Allen
Resident


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quote:

Si argues that they basically should take care of themselves.

John ... that is a complete misstatement!

What I said was that the Local & State Governments did nothing while waiting for the Federal Government to gather supplies and reach New Orleans!!!!!


With flooded airfields and destroyed roads.. it takes time to get help on site!
Obviously most people have absolutely no comprehension of the time and effort required to accomplish this type of task!

Myra ... taking cheap potshots at Pres Bush and Sec Rice does not help the situation! Your acid tongue is not appreciated!

[ September 02, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA

(714) 521-4810

si.allen on Skype

siallen@dslextreme.com

"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Never mess with your profile while in a drunken stupor!!!

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Bobbie Rochow
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I'm really glad you started the thread John. How can we not all be thinking about this stuff?

I think it can be a good one, too, if we just be careful of what we post & how we say things. Sometimes the comments we post are offending others & are not meant to, just to express our opinions. The sometimes they are posted to offend on purpose. That is when tempers get hot & it gets nasty & the thread is locked.

Let's not get this one locked.

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The Word in Signs
Bobbie Rochow
Jamestown, PA 16134

724-927-6471

thewordinsigns@alltel.net

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Mike Pipes
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Si is completely right.

This is a catastrophic event, it's going to take time to organize aid efforts. The gangs and people looting TV's and tennis shoes and shooting rescuers are not helping the situation any.

I know plenty of people that are part of Rescue teams, and one thing you have to realize about rescue is:

They are NOT going to send rescuers into unsecured areas where they have no protection or police coverage to ensure their own safety. The gangs and all that are hurting everyone else.

They've got hundreds of thousands of able-bodied people at their disposal who have no jobs and no other time committments at this point. They could be put to work, cleaning up and helping rebuild, so they have some pride in their own community.

They COULD turn this around into a positive situation and help each other, and help themselves. But no, they're going to sit there on their roof, or in some sports arena, crying into their cheerios while waiting for the handouts to come.
They could become survivors through this, but it looks like most are content being cysts.

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"If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."

Mike Pipes
stickerpimp.com
Lake Havasu, AZ
mike@stickerpimp.com

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Jeff Ogden
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I am with Steve in his offer to help ....I too would like to offer a place to stay and a job to any signmakers displaced by Katrina, who might be looking for a new start.

It's hard to imagine being an overnight refugee in your own country..if I can help one person get through something like that, then I'll feel good.

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Jeff Ogden
8727 NE 68 Terr.
Gainesville FL, 32609

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