posted
We have been using FDC imitation Leaf 004 Gold 3300/3350 for some small script lettering. We make dozens of the same item for sale in gift shops. The vinyl is very difficult to weed bcause it tears along the pattern in the vinyl.
The question, is there a better product that is comparable in price with the same/similar appearance?
Thanks John Grenier
-------------------- John and Diana Grenier Up North Studio Les Cheneaux Islands Art Gallery P.O. Box 83 Hessel, MI 49745 906-322-2886 www.lescheneauxislandsartgallery.com Posts: 50 | From: Hessel, MI (Eastern U.P.) | Registered: Apr 2003
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-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
I had a test sample of Oracal's simulated gold leaf vynull. It wasn't too shabby! SignGold looks the nicest tho, but I hate to weed it. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
obviously signgold is not gold leaf... but I do consider it the only "gold leaf vinyl"...
so as for "simulated gold leaf vinyl" I interpret that to be fake signgold (ie no real gold)
I have used a roll of Coburn imitation gold leaf that comes in a pattern similar to Signgolds florentine swirl. I used most of it for this same one client but they love it (& it does look a damn sight better then metallic gold IMO, so I kinda like it too when the color gold is requested, but no interest in the authenticity or price of genuine gold) I just brought in another roll because that one client keeps ordering more signs in there new Coburn gold look. It always weeds fine. I don't have it out on the street long enough to report on anything but weedability & looks though.
posted
Doug, Be careful with the Coburn Stuff.. They Say 5 year.. You will be lucky to get a year to a year and a half outdoors. I did a test on MY truck before I would offer it to clients and was very very Disappointed it started to delaminate and blister in less then a year. I love the look of it but for outdoor use its a no go
[ April 15, 2005, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: William DeBekker ]
thanks for the warning. I got a 2x8 MDO sign with the gold as a background (kept 1" back from the black oneshot basecoat to leave a border) then Black Gemini raised letters on top & a small black raised MDO panel for the secondary copy. This one hangs right above my own sign on my building, so I guess I'll be able to watch for when this ones going to come back & bite me. Just made them six 18x24 project signs. There are interior designers, that also sub-out kitchen & bath renovations after designing them, so they advertise on site.
posted
Gerber Deluxe Gold is great if a 'mirror' gold is needed. It's double sided so it can be used 'inside window' for glass. It looks and weeds like a dream, but it's expensive.
-------------------- Jen Goodwin Goodwin Glass & Graphics Hampden, Maine 04444 Posts: 44 | From: Hampden, Maine | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
A tip for those Graphtec users who cut a lot of thin / fine films...such as Ruby, metal-poly, SignGold, foils, etc (including Aluminum)...use the CB 15S blade. It's expensive, but you won't believe the time you save weeding...esp Ruby, if anyone still cuts that. Howard
-------------------- Howard Keiper Independent Contractor Benicia, Ca. thekeip@comcast.net
posted
I have never had to edge seal the Coburn or the Gerber Deluxe gold. Coburn has an outdoor durability of 6-12 mo. whereas Gerber Deluxe gold has an outdoor durability of 3 years.
-------------------- Jen Goodwin Goodwin Glass & Graphics Hampden, Maine 04444 Posts: 44 | From: Hampden, Maine | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Gotta say that for outdoor use I wouldn't use anything but SignGold.
Outdoor durability of 10-14 years with edge sealing. (I have sailboats with SignGold on them, unsealed, that still look as good as when it was applied, after 8 years).
It cuts very easily, weeds like a dream and looks about as good as you are going to get without hand gilding.
Just my personal preference.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
I hate to use this word after some thing that have been said around here lately, but AVERY has a pretty good imitation leaf in both silver and gold.
posted
Barry, you are right.. I put the Avery "gold" on my van windows and it looks great after 2 or 3 years. I've been using it for years and it's the best, never edge-sealed it either. Eventually it tarnishes. Not the easiest to cut & weed w/o ripping, but that's ok, it separates us pro's from the riff-raff.
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Don't know what brand it was, but I bought some from Denver Sign Supply. I lettered my shop window (south facing) a little over six years ago, and I noticed today that its starting to tarnish. I didn't really expect it to last past four.
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
The Avery leaf films are very durable, i agree. Safe bet for the truck market, tow folks,dumps,race car cats etc, 4-5 years maybe more in this region/ climate. Vinyl sign supplies,Avery Leaf A5863-S (Silver Leaf) & A5864-S ( Gold Leaf) 1-800-282-0245
-------------------- mark zilliox mark z signs 8425 pushaw station rd. owings md. 20736 301-855-5407 thezs@earthlink.net http://www.markzsigns.com Posts: 348 | From: maryland | Registered: May 2003
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posted
What kind of a tarnish are you guys referring to? I have signs that have been done for four or five years, or more that I did with it, and it still looks as good as the day we put it up....Of course the signs in question are under a thick coat of UV clear, too.
posted
1. I do both.(depneds on whether it's reg or thermal) 2. I have 3. I use the same blade that I use for regular vinyl (30degree Gerber) 4. Not really 5. No, it never fades (well maybe after 50 years) It does get duller, but thats' from the dirt in the air.
[ April 16, 2005, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Bill Lynch ]
posted
Sheila...Unless you use the "printable" SignGold, you will have real trouble on your hands if you try to completetly clearcoat regular SignGold.
It has a clear "Tedlar" (read teflon) coating. Think of trying to paint a teflon frying pan. The clear WILL flake off. Experience talking.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Another vote for the Avery gold and silver. I've had better luck with it than with SignGold.
Something I don't understand about SignGold and the "Tedlar" coating. If you can't coat it with a clear, how is edge sealing gonna work? Isn't the clear gonna have to lap over the very edge of the Tedlar in order to be effective? If clear doesn't stcik to Tedlar, isn't this all gonna break down after awhile?
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
The "gold" stuff I used on my front window has turned a copper-ish color in places. Actually has a kind of antiqued look. I do plan on replacing it though. All new signage for me this Spring! It is the Avery brand, A5864-S Gold Leaf.
-------------------- Tim Whitcher Adrian, MI Posts: 1546 | From: Adrian, MI | Registered: Mar 1999
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posted
Sheila...The edge sealing does just that..it seals the cut edge. As far as I understand it, Signgold consists of an adhesive layer, the gold layer and then the tedlar layer. Edge sealing stops moisture from creeping between the layers. Obviously, if you edge seal and "slop" some clear sealant on the surface of the tedlar in the process, that stuff will flake off.
I'm not a chemist but it seems obvious to me that the "under" surface of the tedlar/teflon must not resist coating like the "outer" surface does. Otherwise how does it stick to the aluminum of a frying pan or to the actual gold in SignGold?
[ April 17, 2005, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
posted
Good question George, I remember bringing that up a while back (during one of those raging disagreements with someone else) I never got a real answer to it. Roger
-------------------- Roger Bailey Rapid Tac Incorporated 186 Combs Dr. Merlin Oregon 97532 Posts: 3020 | From: Merlin Oregon | Registered: Dec 1998
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quote:Originally posted by Brian Briskie: OK Roger, you wanna take the gloves off? Here we go.
In regards to your first "untruth" we'll call it here, you did indeed tell people to ignore the installation directions included with both SignGold products, as well as a generic disregard for the dry application instructions that come with every brand of reflective vinyl I know of.
Even you can't deny, that you've said to "apply Signgold with RT products, and disregard the edge-sealing process"...anyone who can read, which seems to make up a fair share, but not all of the people that have gotten involved with these threads, can verify that. Then you described some non-descript product as being one that would "delaminate with or without the use of RT products"
Now on to the second part of the issue you're once again skirting.
In the edge-sealing process, a line, or bead of clear, (4005 is the recommended product) is drawn or painted around the perimeter of the letter, number or graphic. You're only carrying this clear up onto the tedlar by about 1/16" of an inch. The purpose here, is for the edge sealer to permiate the cut line, where the layers of tedlar, gold and adhesive are exposed. The clear edge-sealer is, while sticking to the sealed-to-surface, and the edge of the graphic, sticking to itself primarily on that small overlap area.
There is no spin to put on it. It's acting much like morter, which sticks to itself.
I'm not full of myself, I'm speaking the truth. The same truth that many, including you, fail to recognize or at least accept.
In addition to my having the responsability to try to make sure SignGold products are used and installed properly, I'm speaking from 25 years of experience in both the sign and paint trades.
What experience are you speaking from Roger? You've repeatedly failed to answer people's legitimate inquiries.
Let me know when you want to discuss the massive quantities of low flash-point ingredients you're loading up your products with. Maybe we can chew the fat about some test results that came from an old Stoney Point, NY associate of yours. Hey, maybe we can even bring up why I can't find any recommendation from most major vinyl manufacturers to endorse the use of your products.
[ April 18, 2005, 02:41 AM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
posted
Anytime someone credible and experienced tells me they have used a product with success by following the directions, and that the material performs beyond 10 years...well, I'm pretty much sold on the product and the process. . .
Also, here's a personal reply I got to some of my questions directly from the supplier:
"Here's why edge sealing the SignGold works: Even though your edge seal does indeed overlap up onto the tedlar surface, it's usually only going to be by a little bit. That little bit that is indeed not going to stick to the surface, will stay stuck to itself. Along the edges, where you have broken the edge of the tedlar, you've exposed three distinct layers of material: a top layer of Tedlar, a layer of 22 karat gold, and a bottom layer of an adhesive/metal mix. The reason we recommend 1Shot 4005 clear specifically, is because we know it will permiate that cut edge, and form a nice airtight seal. This seal will serve a couple of different purposes. First and foremost, it will prevent moisture, and the ambient contaminants contained within, from migrating in between those layers of material. An additional benefit of edge sealing, is that our adhesive is VERY aggressive, and it's a "cold flow" adhesive. It will always maintain some tack, even after many years outdoors...the edge sealing encapsulates that adhesive edge, and prevents it from attracting and sometimes even holding dust, dirt and debris.
Theorectically, any clears you apply to the Tedlar surface of regular (non-thermal printable) SignGold, will be shed by the Tedlar. Tedlar was designed to be self cleaning, and nothing stays stuck to it for very long. Some people have claimed to be successful in getting clear to stick to SignGold, by in every case that I've been able to inspect personally, it turned out that the clear WAS NOT sticking to the SignGold, but enough clear had been built up, that it had formed a sheet that was suspended over the Tedlar. I'd equate it to being similar to a fitted bedsheet over a mattress. It was actually "floating" over the surface of the SignGold.
Additionally, with Tedlar being about the finest, most dimensionally stable and UV resistant material available, it's actually a waste of time and resources clearing SignGold. That's actually part of the beauty of this product line...the clear is already built in."
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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