posted
I finally raised my price for 2 truck doors (in 2 colors of HP vynull) to $195.
This particular job required 2 additional small bits of different colored vynull, and the guy is getting another truck done next week. So I really only have to buy the vynull once for 2 jobs, and there will be enough left over to do a small church van that is on the menu next week.
Got the supplies in today...$177.
I feel like I am making signs just to buy vynull. On the other hand, if I raise my prices again, I know my clients will go out to licky-sticky shops where they can get the same thing for $125.
Something's gotta give here. Unfortunately I'm beginning to think it's my sanity. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Not to add insult to injury....but then there's Uncle Sam's cut out of the profit....
I wish I would have bought a gas station years ago - - liquid gold.
Just think though...the next truck and church van is *almost* pure profit....that's where it's nice, when you can do a few jobs out of stock materials that have already been paid for....
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
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Jill, good price though . . .I'm lucky to get $160 for such a job . . .
But in all actuality . . .can't you turn out more work faster with the vinyl than the hand-lettering?
I'm saying, virtually zero materials hand-lettering, but how long to have 2 trucks and a van completely ready to go??
Know you could do all 3 in a day with the vinyl . . .
It seems like it kind'a works out to the same income . . .one is a lot of time, but almost zero materials - One is more materials, but almost no time . . .
but no matter how you figgure it...
time IS money . . .
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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posted
Jill, Lotti and Sheila both make excellent points...
I started out using nothing but 2 mil Hi preformance vinyl, and still do the majority of my work with it. As the years went by and cusatomers began to question why my prices were higher than "So and So's", I started offering the option of going with imtermediate vinyl. I explained that it was not going to last as long but most who questioned price were more than happy to know that the intermediate vinyl would probably last them 5 years instead of 9 years for Hi performance.
Regarding Sheila's comments...
Today I lettered 6 new Freightliners with Hi performance vinyl. I charged $200 each. The job involved two sets of 2 color door lettering, two 2 color unit numbers and two blocks of DOT numbers in one color. The job required less than 2 yards of 24" vinyl per truck and took me 1/2 hr. to cut, weed and mask the lettering for each truck and another 1/2 hr. to prep and install the lettering.
My material costs were around $15/truck and I spent an hour on each one. That gave me $185 per truck before taxes. I was supposed to do 9 trucks this today, but the last 3 hadn't arrived by the time I was ready to leave.
Had they all been there I would have cleared $1665 for a day's work. THAT is why I LOVE this business!!
(I have to add that, of course, days like this don't come along every day. If they did, I would have been retired several years ago!!! )
I haven't mentioned "design" time because I do between 75 and 100 of these trucks annually and they are all the same, only the colors and unit numbers change. Besides, design time is the same for vinyl or paint.
-------------------- Dave Grundy retired in Chelem,Yucatan,Mexico/Hensall,Ontario,Canada 1-519-262-3651 Canada 011-52-1-999-102-2923 Mexico cell 1-226-785-8957 Canada/Mexico home
quote:Originally posted by Sheila Ferrell: But in all actuality . . .can't you turn out more work faster with the vinyl than the hand-lettering?
but no matter how you figgure it...
time IS money . . .
In most cases NO, at least not with the type of work we do. One color jobs are one thing I never did much of. The typical truck door done in three or four colors with some shading /outlines is usually done quicker with paint. I guess I'm just super slow when it comes to weeding or whatever, but most vinyl jobs end up taking waaaaaayyyyy longer. I can render a casual on a truck door quicker than the plotter can cut it, never mind weeding and premasking. Case in point, yesterday I hand lettered a race car. Your typical dirt track stock car, a Monte Carlo from the mid eighties. Door numbers and roof numbers and the usual assortment of ads. The numbers were a two color fade with an outline in one color and a drop shadow in another. Drivers name in two colors. Single color ad on the trunk. Each quarter had an ad on it in three different colors, the top line had a shadow. The ads were different on each side.. The doors in front of the numbers also had ads, each side was different, again four color ads four lines of copy, the top line had a shadow plus an inline. The car also had pinstriping on it in about a dozen places. The car took a little over 3 1/2 hours. If I were to have done this in vinyl the total time would have been damn near doubled. Yes, vinyl is quicker on the real simple jobs, like three lines of Helvetica, but to get vinyl to produce what I produce in paint, nope it's slower...sometimes waaaaaayyyyyy slower.
Jobs like Dave mentions are done quicker with vinyl, I've got one like that to do tomorrow, but most of what we do are more one offs than anything else.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
posted
Jill, you are only about 2 hrs. from me, & that price sounds good, to me. I usually do 2 doors, one color, HP vinyl for around $100, & $150 for 2 colors, but it is really hard to get what you are worth up here in "Vacationland".
I have had customers who have come & are only going to use their vehicle for a couple of years, & I have told them about the intermediate vinyl, & we used it.
By the way, to all of you who regularly paint truck doors & signs, do you charge extra for painting them vs. vinyl? The more vinyl is being used, the harder to find someone good with a brush, & I would think painting should bring in more $!!!!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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Price seems ok for 2 doors. At first I was doing the same and buying material for the ongoing jobs only. It was always looking as if I was not making that much money per job.When I started buying full role of vinyl, that is when I really started making money. First job paid for all the material, then the next 10 -12 jobs on those rolls is basically labour and profit!
The way I see it, the first two weeks of the month are to pay overhead and material, 3rd week for labour then the last week is the profit for the month. this as been working good for me for the last two years. And I'm enjoying life and making planes for the future also.
posted
I got underbid on a two-color set of doors on a half-ton truck last week. $189 (Canadian) was my price if done in my yard.
The low bid came in at $89.95, done at the customers location and the quote said 2mil vinyl would be used. I doubt he'll be using anything more than cheap vinyl on it.
posted
Yeh but Bobbie, but with regards to someone's comercial work vehicle, which is probably over 80% of my vehicle work, you got that person's truck in 'down time' . . .
If like George said, it's a knock-out job, yeh I hand-letter it....but not for more money necessarily. . .but I automatically make more money on it because of zero materials and gettin' faster at hand-letterin',
I hand-letter all the taxi cabs (this means something on every door and fender, and the trunk) and keep it in the shop less than 4 hours . . .I probably could'nt even lay it all out, cut 2 or 3 different colours and weed it and mask it in that time . . .again, like George said...
But when you get into someone's 2 -3 or more specific colour logo, and type, etc. etc. ...most people don't want their commercial vehicle tied up 2 or 3 days waitin' for paint to dry . . .just like I don't want MY work truck tied up in a mechanics shop somewhere . . . On the other hand, if it IS a real custom-design job like that and they get it hand-lettered, they are willin' to wait on it ever how many days AND spend more . . .
That's when you know yer stuff and can work wet-on-wet and use the right paints & hardners, masks, etc. that will speed the job along...
I wish I could GET more custom stuff like that . . . sure enough is more money in it than the regular commercial vehicle...
I have to ask...what kind of vinyl are you using that your material costs add up to $177 for four doors? That seems very high to me. I can get A8 for about $6/yd in 24" from a local supplier. I know your "miles from anywhere" as far as suppliers are concerned but shipping can't be that much, can it?
Mark
-------------------- Mark Sheflo Renton, Washington A-Squared Signs, LLC Posts: 145 | From: Renton, Washington | Registered: Feb 2003
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No, I have N. Glantz delivering four days a week and Pioneer Supply delivering two. I am afraid to buy Avery now. This was 4 rolls of 15" x 10yd Calon II High-Performance @ $33.87 to $37.85 per roll and a quart of Rapid Tac at $8.05 plus tax. I will use the same vynull for two other jobs, so I guess it's not so bad. Love....Jill
Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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I honestly feel that you can Avery without any qualms. I do and I feel comfortable with my decision to keep using it.
-------------------- Bruce Bowers
DrCAS Custom Lettering and Design Saint Cloud, Minnesota
"Things work out best for the people who make the best of the way things work out." - Art Linkletter Posts: 6451 | From: Saint Cloud, Minnesota | Registered: Jun 1999
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I do not call it doors. I call it sides.... Not that a definition is necessary but the language sounds different. So I would usually say to a customer " that will run you $210 for the whole truck (both side doors) one color. Then I would break out the photo's show examples of nice 2 and three color jobs to add extra $$$ to the project. No more than 10 minutes to make my case and collect a deposit or send em' down the road. Out here you gotta sling bacon, before it gets comin' at ya. Or you can quote per door...$120 first door and $90 for the other. Be creative.
CrazyJack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
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well down here in the "everybody has a plotter" south.....i got idiots doin 2 doors for $45!!!!!!!! single color calendered. i try to keep that type of job in the $60-75 same as a pair of magnetics. aditional colors, graphic, and now we are into $125 with intermediate, add HP and iam getting $150-175. i just did since the hurricane for i company, 20-25 pickups, 2 doors, tailgate, and phone numbers above the rear wheel on the bed...all one color in a graphic i designed...for $125 a pop. so 20 x 125=$2500 so i aint complainin.
[ March 18, 2005, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
-------------------- joe pribish-A SIGN MINT 2811 longleaf Dr. pensacola, fl 32526 850-637-1519 BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND Posts: 11582 | From: pensacola, fl. usa | Registered: Nov 1998
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I'm gonna be blunt, I get $170,00 for a HP vinyl truck lettering job. Fast clean layout, two maybe three colors. And always one color on the US DOT etc. numbers stuff.Also,I use fonts that are easy to weed. If the job starts to get complicated or if the customer gets all weird about what he wants, then the price goes up. At that point, I get ****ed, and just come up with a number or price that compairs with the time I had to spend talking to this As------le. I've got better things to do.
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3820 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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Here I get 160.00 for two doors one color. Two colors, 225.00 More than two colors, 300.00
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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There's a high end restaurant here in town where you can't have a meal under $75. It is open for 15 years. within 4 miles there's a McDonalds and 2 hot-dog shacks.
Never heard that high end restaurant say: "I can't get that much for a meal in this area!"
If you guys are basing your price on the cost of the material and your time involved rather than selling it as an advertising value, you're missing the point.
Keep in mind that the same customer that pays $120 for 2 truck doors is paying more than that each month for his yellow page ad.
Always compare the value of a sign with any other kind of advertising on the market, and then you'll get what you want for, and maybe even more!
I don't do coroplast signs often but I had a good customer yesterday who asked for something promotional to put on his pylone sign. I sold two 4' by 6' coroplast for $440. I am sure that if you ask sign shops in my area everybody will say they can't get more than $100 for a 4' by 6'. Maybe they did'nt try.
I am not a salesman, but I took a few lesson and always watch those salesman, how they do their job and I have learned a lot from that.
Get out and take some selling lesson or stop complaining about the price you get, please.
Anyway, your customer will always make more money with the sign you did for them than you'll make doing that sign!
Life is so good!
-------------------- Pierre Tardif P. Tardif Inc. 1006 boul. PIE-XI sud Val-Belair QC. Canada G3K 1L2 418-847-4089 pierre@ptardif.com Posts: 800 | From: Quebec city | Registered: Aug 2002
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I get $150 a door, painted and airbrushed or 3 color vinyl, gold leaf about 2-225 a door. That's for pick up truck doors, anything on the beds or side of a van price goes up.
MC
-------------------- Mike Clayton M C Grafix Custom Lettering New Jersey (again) Posts: 508 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Apr 1999
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I charged $150. for 2 truck doors in 1986. Now I charge $200- $250 for paint, vinyl or mags.
-------------------- Terry Baird Baird Signs 3484 West Lake Rd. Canandaigua, NY 14424 Posts: 790 | From: Canandaigua, New York | Registered: Dec 2002
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No jobs are the same. Hard to say what I charge, cause it's never the same twice. Just did two sides which included some edge, and the top of the bed sides, (over the rear wheel). I got $425 installed with HP.. Did I make money? Of coarse I did, but, perceved value, what the client got, was of much greater value. His grin said it was worth a thousand dollars.
Good comments Pierre! If you skipped his reply, go back and read it. It makes sense.
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3487 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Keep losing all those free squeeges vinyl salesmen give out, so I'm forced to do all this by hand w/paint.....oh woe is me...
-------------------- Frank Magoo, Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com "the only easy day was yesterday" Posts: 2365 | From: Las Vegas, Nv. | Registered: Jun 2003
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