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» The Letterville BullBoard » Letterhead/Pinstriper Talk » "with a brush?"

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Author Topic: "with a brush?"
John Lennig
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Ya, that's what he said!

I was at a supplier today, talked with another customer, young guy. Got his card, vinyl shop, gave him mine, explained, "no computer, all hand drawn and painted"

he was like??? uh, i said, with a brush,..."you dip it into paint too?" Ya! He was non-plussed, to say the least. I told him he was probably to young to remember the old days.

you see some funny signts when you haven't got your gun.

--------------------
John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts
5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby,
British Columbia, Canada
bigtopya@hotmail.com
604.451.0006

Posts: 2184 | From: Burnaby, British Columbia,Canada | Registered: Nov 2001  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
John Lennig
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That's sights, pal.

--------------------
John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts
5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby,
British Columbia, Canada
bigtopya@hotmail.com
604.451.0006

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Kimberly Zanetti
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Hahahaha John...There are times I listen to everyone freaking out about their computer problems and their vectors and nodes and kernals and this that and weeding and cutting and the only thing I can think of is - GO BUY A PAINTBRUSH AND A CAN OF 1-SHOT! LOL.

(only kidding folks - don't blast me)

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Kimberly Zanetti Purcell
www.amethystProductivity.com
Folsom, CA
email: Kimberly@AmethystProductivity.com

“Organizing is what you do before you do something, so that when you do it, it is not all mixed up.” AA Milne

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John Largent
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Yeah, whatever happened to THAT old fashioned Skill?

--------------------
everybody dances different!

large-hotrodart

1022Palmer
Pueblo, CO 81004
719/543-7440
large44@comcast.net

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Bob Stephens
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Hey I still use my brushes just not as often but there are a few things that a brush can do better than a puter....Its all about using the right tool for the job.

--------------------
Bob Stephens
Skywatch Signs
Zephyrhills, FL

www.skywatchsigns.com
www.skywatchgallery.com

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Dan Streicher
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I think that it should be a requirment, (well if it can't be a requirment it is definately a benefit, to spend some time doing things in the traditional manners) it will only enhance your skills, good grief what would some do if their plotter was down for a week or two and there was no loaner machine? Project that artwork and get going....to some customers it is worth more done in paint than vinyl, You are The Man John

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Dan Streicher
Slidell, LA

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Jon Butterworth
Deceased


Member # 227

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I should have had a gun yesterday !!!!

Painting 5ft letters on a 40ft stucco wall.

Passer-by commented "I thought it was all that computer sticky stuff nowdays"

[Bash]

--------------------
Bushie^
aka Jon Butterworth

Executive Director
HARDLY NORMAL
SIGN COMPANY

http://www.icr.com.au/~jonsigns

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Rick Sacks
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John,
Many years back I went down south to a suppliers place and they had just moved and a guy put what we know as application tape on a stucco wall and pounced his pattern on and hand cut and peeled the letters. Not sure what kind of brush he burnished it down with, but he rolled the letters and peeled the stuff and I was nearly speachless. It was so clean. I'd never seen that tape before and I'd never heard of the 4A yet either.

--------------------
The SignShop
Mendocino, California

http://www.mendosign.com

Making the simple complicated is commonplace;
making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. — Charles Mingus

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Wayne Osborne
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Hi John, Ya should have told him.." Oh yeah vinyl, I remember that stuff,...So yesterday!"

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Wayne Osborne signs
Midhurst W.Sussex U.K
www.osbornesigns.co.uk

"When happiness shows up always give it a comfortable seat"

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Sheila Ferrell
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I'm not sure which of these I like to hear better . . .but I hear each of them frequently from customers. . .typically, before I can evenrespond . . .


~"I'd rather not have it painted . . .do you have those stickers?...I just think they look better."

~"I'd rather not have those letters that you stick on . . .I want it HAND-lettered...I just think it looks better."

~"What are you going to do? Use the stick-on's or paint?? I don't care, use either one."


[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

--------------------
Signs
Sweet Home Alabama


oneshot on chat


"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog"

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Dale Feicke
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Blows me away sometimes how some have chosen to take what we considered a craft that became a livelihood, and turn it into a quick way to make a buck. Write a check..buy the stuff..spit 'em out.

Many years ago, a local 'entreprenooer' was looking for a second income, and stopped into our shop. He was intrigued by the sign business. Came back several times over the next months,just watching. One day, he blew me away. Said " Hey man, I'm going to have a couple days off next week. If I can get a couple hours free to come by, will you show me how the letter?" !!
Like that's all it takes, right?

I use them both, like Bob said, but I really do still enjoy hand lettering. I know there are a lot of pluses to vinyl, but it's so wasteful. It's alot like doing paint and bodywork. 90% of all your materials to do a job winds up on the floor or in the trash can.

--------------------
Dale Feicke Grafix
714 East St.
Mendenhall, MS 39114

"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."

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Debb Bates
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It sure is nice reading all these stories about you fellow signpainters still handlettering.In my area there may be just a couple of us here, including myself. I find it very calming, especially in this fast pace world we live in.
Something Ive always wanted to do is make up some type of T-shirt that would say-YES I DO HAVE A STEADY HAND-NO I DID NOT HAVE A SINGLE DRINK LAST NIGHT-YES-I CAN DRAW A STRAIGHT LINE WITH A RULER and so on , and so on ,etc. I,m sure alot of you folks have other comments to add to my list-go for it!!!

--------------------
Debb Bates
Feminine Touch Signs
840 McLeod Hill Rd.,
Fredericton, N.B.Canada
506-452-7884

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John Lennig
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Ha Ha, Debb, and don't want to forget..."and , no, I won't be "disappearing for a couple weeks, on a Binge!", after I finish this job.

and most important, it's F R E E H A N D, even if I DO use a mahlstick and a pattern. LOL

--------------------
John Lennig / Big Top Sign Arts
5668 Ewart Street, Burnaby,
British Columbia, Canada
bigtopya@hotmail.com
604.451.0006

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Debb Bates
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John-also-Oh-you DO have lines on the truck door-Your cheatin" then--Bla Bla Bla -HeHe

--------------------
Debb Bates
Feminine Touch Signs
840 McLeod Hill Rd.,
Fredericton, N.B.Canada
506-452-7884

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Mark Stokes
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What will it be like in 20 plus years there aint going to be many hand letterers around if any at all.

--------------------
Mark Stokes
Mark Stokes Signs
Mount Barker South Australia

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Myra Grozinger
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Oh my, so much that makes me want to say something:

Mark S: I'm afraid the "if any" is where it's at for a 20 year outlook. For many reasons.

Debb:
please show up often, you are funny

Dale: No wonder your local 'entreprenooer' needed a second income, dense & unobservant wannabe that he was.

Dan Streicher/Striker: What I would to if my plotter went down is move in the replacement from my storage room. Been there, had that problem. Won't happen to me again.

In general: I so remember the day the Tubelite rep, in 1985, brought me my first 4B (which I sold a couple of weeks ago for even less than peanuts to a very happy start up person) - and I was physically shaking because changing over to computers was so scary and WEIRD.
I specifically remember asking: How do I deal with customer resistance to stuck on vinyl letters?

Now, of course, the beauty of it is that there is the multi-faceted ability to make judgments and to use all the ways we know how to do it.
I can't count the times I have said to a potential customer, mostly this happens on the phone, that it is not really possible to tell how a job would be executed.
The method chosen would be the one to best fit the need of the customer's purpose for the end result. And that all of the methods are available, and that once we know what is needed and intended we will recommend the best way to achieve it.
That's what they called us for.
Right?

--------------------
Myra A. Grozinger
Signs Limited
Winston-Salem, NC

signslimited@triad.rr.com

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Rovelle W. Gratz
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Like Charlie Jones used to tell the ones who asked when he was hand lettering something, "How long did it take you to learn to do that"?

He would say, "About six or eight hours..............


.............every day...............


.............for ten years".


The only experience some of the folks have these years at start-up, is the time spent on the computer ordering their "complete sign system".

I went in to one of those shops once looking to buy a piece of banner material I needed in a hurry...after listening to the guy talking to a customer...knowing he didn't have a clue what he was talking about, I left without even asking about the banner material.

Some of those have gone on to have enough curiosity to find a Gold Mine of Help on this forum. These are the ones that probably will make it.

Some have started out not satisfied with just punching out words and sticking them to something, but have educated themselves in the techniques and skills required in marrying the proper shapes, fonts and graphics to turn out some fabulous work that even an old brush man could look at and admire.

--------------------
Rove Gratz
Gratz Signs
342 Walden Station Drive
Macon, GA 31216
rovegratz@aol.com
Home Page: http://rove-342.tripod.com

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Joey Madden
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Mark Stokes quote> What will it be like in 20 plus years there aint going to be many hand letterers around if any at all.

Answer> There are probably more workshops in hand painting around the globe at this moment then classes in vinyl or digital.

--------------------
HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952
'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'




http://members.tripod.com/Inflite
http://www.pinheadlounge.com/hotlinesjoeymadden

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Jeff Ogden
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John

When I went into business for myself again in '98, I felt I had to have computer and plotter to compete. I bought 3 rolls of each color, dark,medium, and light, and although I have used alot of certain colors, there are some of those original rolls still sitting here, and I'm leary about using them because they're 7 years old.

Today I would say 95% of my work is painted and dimensional, and except for a rare vinyl job, the main thing I use my plotter for is pattern-making.

It looks like the more time goes by, the more some customers seem to appreciate a good painted job. I for one have grown tired of vinyl and all the stuff you have to throw away.

Life seems so much easier with a well stocked paint bench.

--------------------
Jeff Ogden
8727 NE 68 Terr.
Gainesville FL, 32609

Posts: 2138 | From: 8827 NE 68 Terr Gainesville Fl 32609 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Doug Fielder
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Bein' from Jersey where truck lettering is mandatory for commercial businesses, I find lots of my friends still do lots of "handlettering" because the vinyl proved to be too flat, not unique and not as durable. Guys like Alan Johnson and Glen Weisgerber both bought computer systems and have either thrown them through the window (Alan) or just use it for putting out patterns. Others in the Garden State mix the mediums to speed up their jobs and for paintmask.
I have been hand lettering for 8 years and teach who ever I can and tell people of the downfalls of vinyl/people who are just out to make a buck and have no ability.
Education is the key.
Up here in VT, I have lots of time and I do all my stuff by hand and once in a while I will use my computer to make a pattern.

--------------------
Doug Fielder
Fallout Grafix
Port St. Lucie, FL

16 years with a brush in my hand...

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PKing
Deceased


Member # 337

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Someone should write a BOOK!
Grew up with brushes,use vinyl when needed.
Can't beat the "pattern" making uses &special effects!

--------------------
PKing is
Pat King
The Professor of
SIGNOLOGY

Posts: 3113 | From: Pompano Beach, FL. USA | Registered: Nov 1998  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Ray Rheaume
Resident


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Got 2 for you, John.

A weekender from Massachusetts caught me grabbing a coffee and, once he'd see my truck outside, asked if I actually painted signs.

"Sure."

He then mentioned he'd been looking for a painter to redo some signs for almost 2 years, but could only find sticker shops.

Job got picked up Friday and off to Cape Cod they went...go fig?


Last week, the local hospital needed a couple of small signs in a rush...black on white, pretty straight forward. Seems that they'd ordered them from another shop months before, but I got the call because "the other guy's computer crashed and hadn't been fixed yet".
Weird thing is...
I know the other guy...he's long been an excellent hand letterer and pinstriper.

Sure hope I never get that dependant on my 'puter.

Rapid

--------------------
Ray Rheaume
Rapidfire Design
543 Brushwood Road
North Haverhill, NH 03774
rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com
603-787-6803

I like my paint shaken, not stirred.

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John Largent
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Years ago, when I was just learning to Letter (correctly) I worked for a Neon Sign Company. One of my "Apprentice" jobs was to re-letter and re-paint the Signs hanging on the Street. My boss would "ladder me up" in the early A.M. and then come back about 10 or so. In the meaqntime you almost always got an old guy who'd stand on the walk below and Kibbitz. Nearly always, one of the first comments would be . . "My Uncle (or whoever) was a Sign Painter . . . He was a Drunk, y'know" . . .

Sometimes I miss those old days . . but not often . . Heh, heh . . .

--------------------
everybody dances different!

large-hotrodart

1022Palmer
Pueblo, CO 81004
719/543-7440
large44@comcast.net

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David Fisher
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I've been fixing/building/maintaining computers from my shop since April last year.
Prior to that I have made my living by the brush, gun or computer as a sub-contractor so I am well aware of both sides of the coin.
Now that those of you who don't know me are aware of my background I'll tell a story of a guy I met last Saturday.
He does not know about my industry background.
He's moved to a northern regional centre in my state as of Sunday to take over a vinyl based sign business that he has bought.
He was happily telling me about the ins and outs of the business and the profits to be made.
I had a quiet chuckle to myself to hear his complete dismissal of the any local competition because of his superior CNC hardware and self professed management skills.
His industry knowledge is zero and has no idea of colour, layout or production and seems to be buying into a business with a similar culture.
I know he has at least one competitor that is a tradesman signwriter of the highest calibre.
I look forward to relieving him of more cash in a year or so and hearing his tale of woe.
The shame is, in the initial frenzy he will probably take food from the mouths of people that could better use it while he tries to make a go of things.

--------------------
David Fisher
D.A. & P.M. Fisher Services
Brisbane Australia
da_pmf@yahoo.com
Trying out a new tag:
"Parents are the bones on which children cut their teeth
Peter Ustinov

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Jillbeans
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I am so glad that I started out with a brush.
I recall a job, after getting a sign system in '98.

I had cut a computer mask for the sides of a dumptruck. I arrived on site with my paint kit and the masking. While I was filling in the design, the garage manager approached me and asked if I would also letter a small pickup.
I nervously told him that I had only cut masking for the big truck. He told me I could do the little truck however I wanted.

I got out my wooden yardstick and Stabilo, laid it out and painted it before the big truck had set up for outlining. It looked 100% better than the computer layout too!

It is nice to have hand-lettering skills to fall back on or use daily as the need arises. Computers are slick, vynull has a purpose...but nothing is more fun than brushwork. Well, almost.

Love....Jill

--------------------
That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place.
-Russ McMullin

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Frank Magoo
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[Rolling On The Floor] Jill; that's almost parallel to situation of mine recently.

While doing customers rig in very rear of pk.lot at local trk.stop;(favorite place to work-NOT!) I hand lettered $100 worth of pet truck names,3 rigs, in time it took for paint, rolled on, to set up enough to strip of mask on customers rig. Provided some extra cash and satisfaction in skills acquired over the years that led to ability to take advantage of an opportunity others w/o lettering skills would have had to decline work, resulting in loss of at least $100 worth of potential revenue.

I, for one, applaud the advent of the putor, it's made making money easier. I hand paint all my work and use computor-generated mask to accomplish as near perfect work as possible w/o burying myself in the job w/labor-intense steps that the mask takes care of by nature of the technology.

I started a brush guy and will die a brush/semi-putor guy, got to love progress!!!! [Cool]

--------------------
Frank Magoo,
Magoo's-Las Vegas; fmagoo@netzero.com
"the only easy day was yesterday"

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Bill Preston
Deceased


Member # 1314

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Every now and then a job for the brushes comes along, and vinyl just doesn't get it.

Got one like this going right now. Friend of mine since we were kids on the same street is building a street rod based on a '28 Ford. He stretched the chassis, dropped in a 'vette engine, and built from scratch a "woodie" panel, or sedan delivery type body. Hell of a woodworker this guy.

Doing a cut/mask, imitation gold base coat lettering for the main copy, airbrush horizon line in medium brown, and blue sky in the upper parts of the main lettering. Secondary copy in medium brown. Will outline main lines in black---fairly wide. Corners of copy panel will get some doodads in two colors, with connecting pinstripes.
All the body wood work is finished natural with multiple coats of spar varnish. This vehicle is going to be a daily driver---no trailer queens for this guy.

All copy in a real old-style alphabet.

More fun than a body should be allowed. Luv those brushes.

bill preston

--------------------
Bill Preston
Fly Creek, N.Y. USA

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Dan Streicher
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Member # 4515

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in response to Mr. Sacks statement about the application type tape that he saw someone using we just got a sample from Sara at American Biltrite of a product that sounds similar called TransferRite 693F it didn't quite work for our application and we will have to search for something else but if the wall was smooth or semi smooth it just might work...

--------------------
Dan Streicher
Slidell, LA

Posts: 445 | From: Slidell, LA | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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