Just got ripped off with a sketch-stealer. Wrote this letter & am about to mail it. Comments?
quote:Dear Mr. -
I noticed that new signs have gone up at your business. I also noticed the similarity of the signs to the sketch I gave to you on November 16, 2004.
I am enclosing an invice for a sketch fee of $25.00 as listed on my proposal, which you signed off on.
This is precisely why I rarely hand out sketches. I am also deeply regretful of the hour that I spent refining the sketch after you left. I was sure that you would be purchasing signage from my company. I guess the lesson that I learned about giving out sketches is far more valuable than the $25 I know that you will never pay me.
Happy Holidays. Jill M. Welsh
Opinions? Thanks & Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Take out the "I know that you will never pay me" part. You earned that money, now act like you expect to receive it! Don't let him off the hook that easily!
Good for you.
Suelynn
-------------------- "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -George Eliot
Suelynn Sedor Sedor Signs Carnduff, SK Canada Posts: 2863 | From: Carnduff, SK Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
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Jill, It sounds like you are already resolved that he won't pay you. Change that. Copyright begins as soon as you lay pencil to paper (or mouse to pad).
Charge him no less than $100, and let him know that Copyright infringement is a serious issue that you intend to pursue (but you would rather not). Those penatlies can run into the thousands for him AND the company that reproduced your work. Again there is no amount of "slight variation" allowed if the work is obviously yours.
Look at the Copyright section on my website, at the bottom, Copyright FAQ, and use some quotes if needed. All are welcome to use any of that info.
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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Jill, Unfortunately, you probably won't get paid for your work. People who steal designs usually don't have the integrity to do the right thing. As for your letter, one thing that jumps out at me is the low cost of your sketch... $25.00 is a real bargain! You might want to also include a copy of his/her signature on the sketch and a copy of the "small claims court" form that you will be filing if the bill is not paid. I wouldn't waste too much more time on this guy, it's already a loss for you, why make it a bigger loss? If it really bothers you, you might want to find out who made the sign and send them a note about "Copy Right" infringments. Good Luck!
-------------------- Tom & Sharon Giampia Creative Image Design Port Chester, NY Posts: 285 | From: Port Chester | Registered: Mar 2001
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Dear Mr. Ahole, While I appreciate that you chose to use the design that I had produced for your signage, there are now some issues that we need to finalize. As I'm sure you realize, you are liable for the $25 sketch fee that you had agreed to.
What you probably don't realize though is that you have infringed on Copyright of the design I provided by having the sign produced by another company. I have not released the Copyright to you by simply providing a sketch. You have also involved another company in this suit, so you may wish to discuss this with them, to help satisfy a portion of the amount stated below.
Rather than having to go through the process of a civil lawsuit, I would appreciate remuneration in the amount of $150 additional and I will release the Copyright on my design to you.
Please remit the total $175.00 by December 15, 2004, or I will have no other recourse than to advance with legal procedure.
Sincerely, Jillbeans
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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Thanks Guys. I knew I could count on you. I eliminated that line about never getting the $$. My proposals are older, and they say "If you use this artwork but do not order signs from us, Jill's Custom Signs will bill you" and the sketch fee says $25, so I'm limited to that. What rankles me is that he used my ideas, wasted my time, and paid good money to someone else (a franchise of course) for an easy job. The sketch I did give him was a non-color draft only, but it was still my idea. It's in the mailbox right now. I still won't hold my breath! Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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All the above is great advice, Jill. At LEAST $50-100 on that sketch fee on your NEW forms. You might take a photo of the existing signs and include it with the original sketch and the court forms that you intend to file. The small claims court is easy to do...just takes time, which is kind of a drag. I HAVE done it though and when I got in front of the judge, he said to the guy, "Did you do this to this lady? Pay her!" PLUS, then he had to pay court costs which was more that the bill! hehehehehe If nothing else it teaches them they can't push people around and be buttheads. Don't be "regretful" about your time..."I'm so sorry that you saw fit to take advantage of my good nature and willingness to be helpful." would be more to the point. Add "If this issue is not resolved by (set a time limit) I will be filing court papers at the ______ County Courthouse." I would also send a copy of your sketch and photo of the sign to the sign company who put it up. Then I would call them and ask them nicely (at first) what gives. Who knows, they might be as upset about the guy "bamboozling" them as you are. I would approach it from that side first and explain to them that you just know they wouldn't take someone else's sketch "intentionally" but are they aware that you did the sketch? Hey, don't let people take advantage of you! You DESERVE to be paid for what you did. In the future, make sure your name is PROUDLY displayed on your sketches. I have a stamp that I put somewhere that it can't be missed, not in a corner where it can be covered when they photo copy it and fax it to every sign co. in the area. Ask me how I learned to do this!!! Been there, done that! Didn't like it much either!!
[ December 07, 2004, 10:39 AM: Message edited by: Jane Diaz ]
-------------------- Jane Diaz Diaz Sign Art 628 W. Lincoln Ave. Pontiac, Il. 61764 815-844-7024 www.diazsignart.com Posts: 4102 | From: Pontiac, IL USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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Too many words and you don't need to include an explanation pouring your hurt feelings all over the place.
Get that letter out of the mailbox and throw it away.
Make up an invoice and print a copy of the proposal then highlight the line about the sketch fee and include that with the invoice.
That's all the explanation needed!
Drop that in the mailbox and wash your hands of it.
If you miss a credit card payment or a mortgage payment, do you get a letter from the bank saying "Oh woa-is-us, we have so many people missing their payments so PLEASE remit yours as soon as you can."
No, you get a letter stating "If you don't pay us, we're going to take your house back, send a collections agent over for your property, or freeze all your banking accounts."
Take your feelings out of the equation, go "stoneface" and treat it like a business, because that's all it is!
Quit giving your "customers" the power to run your gig.
-------------------- "If I share all my wisdom I won't have any left for myself."
Mike Pipes stickerpimp.com Lake Havasu, AZ mike@stickerpimp.com Posts: 8746 | From: Lake Havasu, AZ USA | Registered: Jun 2000
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I love the part about releasing the copyrights for an additional $150. I was going to add that I can't believe people, but nothing shocks me anymore.
I raise my price when someone brings in a design from another shop, after telling them I will not copy the design. Lately I have been emailing a lot of proofs. It saves them time of coming to my shop, and me the time of talking with them 3 times. I always have a 'This design is property of Pro Sign Design' printed lightly ovet the top of the sign layout.
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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I would follow Mike Pipes advice, it's a business. Since your design fee was so low I probably wouldn't pursue it, I doubt you could get more if that's all they were agreeing to but if you wanted to rattle their cage a little I would add to the invoice that if payment isn't recieved in 10 days you will collect via small claims court, which includes process service fees and court costs.
-------------------- Jim Upchurch Artworks Olympia WA Posts: 797 | From: Olympia, WA | Registered: Nov 1998
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Wierd...is the franchise shop THAT much lower in price?
For awhile I've considered the plight of the average policeman as: 1/3 cop, 1/3 psycologist, & 1/3 lawyer.
Maybe the plight of the sign people is becoming the same...Wierd.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
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You have sparked me to once again change my workorder verbage. this is now the long version:
ALL ITEMS LISTED IN THIS PROPOSAL REMAIN PROPERTY OF PRO SIGN DESIGN UNTIL PAID IN FULL. 50% DEPOSIT REQUIRED, BALANCE DUE ON COMPLETION. ALL MATERIAL IS GUARANTEED TO BE AS SPECIFIED. ALL WORK IS TO BE COMPLETED IN A WORKMAN LIKE MANNER ACCORDING TO STANDARD PRACTICES. ANY DEVIATION FROM THE ABOVE SPECIFICATIONS INVOLVING EXTRA COSTS WILL ONLY BE EXECUTED UPON WRITTEN ORDER, AND WILL BECOME AN EXTRA CHARGE OVER AND ABOVE THIS ESTIMATE. ALL AGREEMENTS CONTINGENT UPON ACCIDENTS OR DELAYS BEYOND OUR CONTROL. ALL SIGN PERMITS ARE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE PROPERTY OWNER. PRO SIGN DESIGN ACCEPTS NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR INSTALLING SIGNS WITH NO PERMITS. DESIGNS / LAYOUTS PRODUCED BY PRO SIGN DESIGN REMAIN THE COPYRIGHTED PROPERTY OF PRO SIGN DESIGN AND MAY NOT BE COPIED AT ANY TIME WITHOUT WRITTEN PERMISSION. A MINIMUM CHARGE OF $200 WILL BE BILLED FOR DESIGN TIME IF THIS DESIGN IS REPRODUCED BY INDIVIDUALS OTHER THAN PRO SIGN DESIGN.
feel free to copy!!
-------------------- Jerry VanHorn, Pres. Pure Sports Designs, LLC Pro Sign Design / United Wholesale Signs www.prosigndesign.comwww.unitedwholesalesigns.com West Liberty, OH 937-465-0595 866-942-3990 Since 1990 Posts: 925 | From: West :Liberty, OH | Registered: May 2004
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Another idea for the future would be not to release the sketch without a deposit:
"Oh, you want to take the sketch home to show it to your wife? No problem, that's $50, just a deposit, you know, it will count against your final bill".
posted
I did send it. I copied the signed proposal and highlighted it. Mailed it along with the invoice (spelt right) I know I shoulda left the emotions out, but if anything, I FEEL BETTER NOW. And that was worth the 37¢! Love....Jill
-------------------- That is like a Mr. Potato Head with all the pieces in the wrong place. -Russ McMullin Posts: 8834 | From: Butler, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2001
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Why involve an attorney? Kinda overkill. This is a small issue better settled between two professional business people. Good job Jill. I hope it works. Keep us posted
""Good judgment comes from experience; and a lot of that comes from bad judgment" - Will Rogers Posts: 3485 | From: Beautiful Newaygo, Michigan | Registered: Mar 2003
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Jill, I agree with Pat-Pray for your enemies! Yea, when they are nasty to you, as long as you keep your own self clean, they reap what they sow. Works for me, & I get blessed!
When I first started my business, I took some layouts to a small restaurant up the road. She got back to me about a year later, wanting more layouts. Well, I had gotten better at it by then, & had given her some really nice ones, but the price was a bit higher because of the work involved, & I was a bit smarter. Well, I never heard from her, & lo & behold, there is the very first layout I had done for her, on her "new" sign, same lettering, colors, etc., & it looked AWFUL!!!! Obviously she had taken it to someone else, & that is fine with me! I am glad my name is not on it!
-------------------- The Word in Signs Bobbie Rochow Jamestown, PA 16134
724-927-6471
thewordinsigns@alltel.net Posts: 3485 | From: Jamestown, PA 16134 | Registered: Oct 2002
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Jill, when/if that happens to me, I make a courtesy call first and verbally talk to them, and ask them to provide a PO# so I can place it on the invoice. Sometimes they really are too 'dumb' to understand the initial contract and this is all it takes.
It's better to make a friend out of them than an enemy. You are much more likely to get your money in the end.
Just a note too: ALL my clientelle are long time repeat so I rarely run into this. The ones that do it are telling me they are shopping around. Duley noted, they now enter a realm of different clientelle, the type I'm not as generous with in the future. So sorry for them.
posted
One of the things I learned when I was a manager of a drafting department for a national corporation was the inclusion of "Proprietary Drawing" printed on each drawing supplied to a customer. Underneath was an explanation of what a proprietary drawing is, and how the customer would be charged financially, and even criminally if needed, for unauthorized use of the drawings supplied.
-------------------- Dana Blair Blair Signs Wooster, OH www.blairsigns.com
If sign makers go on strike, is there anything written on their picket signs? Posts: 835 | From: Wooster, OH, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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I think we've all done as Jill did. Customer comes in, wants a sketch, we need the job, so we do a little sketch to maybe push the customer our way. More than not, it works. But then along comes Buster the body crab and breaks the string. I learned a lesson a few years ago about this, so now no sketches leave my shop without a deposit, usually 100 bucks. IF they back off on that, then they arent serious about the signwork. I had a guy do me this exact way, many years back.I did a sketch, needed the work, he wanted to show it to his wife. Here we go now... He Took it to a vinyl shop and they tried their best to reproduce it, but missed it pretty bad. It was close enough for me though. After a couple phone calls to the vinyl shop that used the sketch, and the owner of the truck,and a few expletives, I got my sketch fee, and they got schooled. Strangest thing, the guy actually came to me a couple years later for another job, I told him I was too busy. Do whatever makes you feel good Jill, but get paid! Raise your sketch fee too. You deserve to be paid.
[ December 08, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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