Seems like I've seen a post on this, but searched and couldn't find what I'm looking for.
Sandblasting an hdu sign and it's getting some black smalts in some of the background.
Will be using sherwin williams acrylic latex paint and the smalt cream isn't compatible with latex.
PB Resin also says to use oil base paint. Looked at West Systems epoxy and think it would work if needed.
Trying to source locally and Sherwin Williams has epoxy marine coatings. Anyone used it for mixing in background color for binding the smalts? Or is there another alternative?
Thank you, Tony
Posted by Sal Cabrera (Member # 1236) on :
Hi Tony, what we normally used over Latex or Enamel background here and is very Durable is 59000 - 59140 Seria Enamel Plus gloss From Nazdar, we Mix half of the 59140 and half black one shot this is because background will be back but if you will have different color just change the color it works well for us. I hope this can help you on your project!
Posted by Mark M. Kottwitz (Member # 1764) on :
Why add smiths cream to latex?
My impression is smiths cream is used to slow down the drying of the paint. Doesn't latex have slow drying times?
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Good question...can you put smalts directly on wet acrylic latex?
Thanks for the replies.
Posted by Rodger MacMunn (Member # 4316) on :
I use QHF Holdfast Smalts Glue, over an acrylic primer. 20 years & never had any issues. Mixes 2/3 glue with 1/3 alkyd paint. I doubt you have any success trying to get smalts to stick to wet acrylic, although frankly, I've never tried it myself. I've never understood the Smith's Cream process either .... Smith's Cream retards the drying process. With the Holdfast, it's dry overnight.
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Thank you...will look it up. This is my first "real smalts" sign, the last one was for my driveway and used black beauty. I just used Sherwin Williams Sherclear on the black painted background, and added the black beauty to it. It's probably been 8 or 9 years, hasn't fallen off yet.
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Rodger, having a tough time finding the QHF Holdfast Smalts Glue in the US. Sent an email to Canadian Signcrafters, waiting for a reply.
Do you have any other sources? Thank you!
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
Why add smiths cream to latex?
As I understand it, Smiths Cream is homogenized linseed oil, strictly an oil based product.
I still use it for blending large areas of a graphic or pictorial when using lettering or bulletin colors with a brush.
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Yes, this is something new for me. As I "now" understand it, Smiths cream slows the drying process of oil base paint. I originally thought it was a type of glue added to paint to adhere smalts.
Actually, I'm just looking for a good way to apply smalts to the hdu background when using acrylic latex paints. Parts of the sign is just painted black, and some of it will receive black smalts for the sparkle.
Would add a pic, can't get the pic small enough to upload and still be legible...lol
Posted by Rodger MacMunn (Member # 4316) on :
Tony, Canadian Signcrafters has been sold. To TG Graphics. I pour Holdfast onto acrylic primer .... never any issues. You can use PB resin or West Systems too, but all should be mixed with oil-based paint. I use mostly PPG Acrylics, but really like Ronan for when I have to use oil.
Posted by Vance Galliher (Member # 581) on :
hold fast quill hair & ferule Columbia, sc 803 788 4499
just as roger said...
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Smith's cream only job when using smalts is to slow the drying process so you can paint the entire background of a sign so that it will stay went enough to add the smalts. I'm having better luck with PB resin. My wife and I can do a large sign in 45 minutes with epoxy. I will paint all my letters, graphics and borders with latex, then do the epoxy with smalts after drying a day or two.
There are some epoxies that accept latex paint but I'm not sure if they are outdoor compatible. There are also some tinting powders that can be used in any type of epoxy.
Why are you reluctant to use any oil based paint? Is it because you don't like it? Don't have any? Just curious.
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
I learned all about smalts back in the 80s. The point is to make a rough surface look very black. I made a simple test-sign out of aluminum coated sign ply, coated it out with latex primer, glued on some plastic 3" letters with epoxy, coated it with three coats of black acrylic enamel with hardener, and while still tacky (ten minutes later) dropped ground up black charcoal from briquets. Yea! Charcoal briquets. Lastly, I gilded the raised plastic letters....then coated it out with several coats of a catalyzed hi grade clear urethane (Sikkens I recall, or Acme). It was an address sign and I saw it last four years ago...still looking very fine, but under a canopy, so no rain.
Then four years ago wanted to float a painting on dibond on a 3" background, inset in a gilded frame. Painting raised up a quarter inch or so. I coated out the black background first with Urethane clear/catalyzed and then sprinkled black sparkly glitter from Hobby Lobby. Coated it out a few more times with the clear and it has held up flawlessly.
I cannot recall anyone ever asking me if I used real smalts or ground obsidian. The urethane clear holds everything down very well.
Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :
Sorry, got side tracked with the holidays..lol Thank you all, I ordered the HoldFast and some one shot black to mix with it. I've always done more vinyl and not a "lot" of painting. I started doing some painting about the time others were looking hard at latex to replace one shot. I had about a dozen colors of one shot in the early 2000's and used some, but really disliked needing thinners, mixing, cleaning brushes, etc...so I gave what was left to a sign painter buddy. Many were changing to latex, for me it's easy to get locally, easier clean-up, and the store mixes it in whatever size I need. So for the last 15 years I've been using Sherwin Williams and it has held up pretty well.
This sign only has four colors, black, white, gray and sunflower yellow. Might be these colors in one shot might outlast acrylic latex?
I have a little time to decide on the paint, ordered two 5x10 2" duna on December 5th, and now I'm told it will be January 16th before they get here. Website shows 9/14 days for delivery. Next is to build the framework and get the resist cut.
