After all these years resisting the switch, I want to give it a go with the water based stuff. Any tips would be appreciated. How do you get them to cover? Can you use any additive to make them feel like you're pulling a stroke rather than controlled smearing? How do you like the Ronan Aqua Cote product? Is it better than Nova? What do you prefer for lettering brushes? What about all the faux backgrounds that I've learned to do with enamels? Wood graining? Floating colors and marble? Can it be done with acrylics? What are the differences between acrylics and latex? Thanks.
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
I quit using solvent based paints many years ago due to developing a sensitivity to the fumes. I didn't hand letter at all for years. A few years back I started trying Ronan Aquacote and more recently NovaColor. At first I thought this will never work, but I practiced and got used to it. I don't hand letter much for commercial sign work. I do it mostly for antique style signs I sell online and at art shows, but lettering is lettering.
Aquacote and Novacolor are very different. I use them both. I really like the NovaColor better. The Ronan dries very fast. If I use additives it flattens the sheen. I use it when I need some gloss. Nova is more satin. I Use mostly the Mack brushes for waterbase. A lot of Nova colors are very transparent. For a purple I may have to lay down an opaque red first. Ronan is much more opaque.
As far as how it come out of the brush, I can't really explain it. It is different. It feels more slippery than One Shot. For me its been so long since I used oil base I can't really remember.
I never was really a master sign painter. Just when I was feeling proficient after a few years I started having problems feeling sick after painting all day. I am better at lettering now than I ever was and enjoy it more than sitting at a keyboard.
One drawback is they don't adhere well to automotive paints. And glass, the verdict is not in. I have some tests on my window. I paint mostly on wood.
As far as faux, I just experiment.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I'm not an accomplished hand letterer but I do use quills and when Mack came out with water based quills I decided to try them. I have not tried them with Nova colors nor have I ever bought Ronan Aquacote. I would have a hard time believing that Nova colors would work in a quill. I have been using mostly Porter paint which was the brand that Gary Anderson was selling under the Rhino Paint brand a while back. Porter AcriShield works fantastic in my Mack 2179 quills. The only problem is you cannot wash out a color and go back to paining with the wet brush. All the snap is gone. It bends over with pressure, then stays that way. They have to be dry to switch to another color so the down side is you either need to try to dry it quickly with a hair drier or have multiple brushes in each size if you switch colors a lot.
[ August 12, 2017, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
I have not had that experience with the Macks. I have not tried Porter. I don't think Ive seen it around here. I have not tried red sables. They may work well.
Posted by Bob Kaschak (Member # 3146) on :
I also have had great succsess with the Mack lettering quills. I also love the Kafka striping brushes. they have great snap and hold a ton of paint. I use those for painting long lines on borders and they are great for outlining lettering.
I use regular acrylic latex gloss (or as glossy as they make it). I have not added anything except a few drops of water on a hot day. I think the acrylic latex works great for hand lettering. Some second coating is needed on certain colors.
I prefer a couple light coats instead of one thick coat.
I firmly believe these water based paints far outlast the oil based enamels I used to use.
And it is so much easier to clean up with water.
Yes, all of the faux finishes work great with acrylics.
I just don't miss oil based at all.
Best of luck, Bob
[ August 14, 2017, 09:24 AM: Message edited by: Bob Kaschak ]
Posted by John Smith (Member # 1308) on :
if one should "Jump da Broom" over to acrylics, should we also convert over to waterbased brushes? I still have a box full of Langnickels and other oil based quills that have never been in the water. I am still stuck in the Old School mode as not to use one for the other. ~ opinions ~ ??
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I've always used the water based quills but I see that Mack now has quills that they say is for either type of paint but since I keep my oil based quills oiled and my water based dry I would think using the same quill for both types of paint could be risky.
I I just tried Nova Color with the water based quills and to my surprise they worked better than I thought. I had to scoop some paint up and then pallet it to get it into the quill but it pulled a solid line. I did not have as much control with varying the width of the stroke as I do with Alkyd enamels on a quill, but it worked better than I thought it would.
Posted by John Smith (Member # 1308) on :
Dave - what I meant by transitioning the oil brushes to water based is to remove all the oil from the bristles and ferrules by whatever means necessary. then - only use them for water based paints..... not to swap them back and forth. I guess I will get some small cans of acrylics, clean the oil brushes, and experiment. I have a few slots in my paint box to keep them all separate. I am all out of fresh 1-Shot so I have to go back to school, so to speak.
is there a supplier that sells pints and half-pints ????
thank for the advice.
there are Sign Painters and Sign Writers ~ I consider myself a "Dimensional Graphics Artist"
.
[ August 14, 2017, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: John Smith ]
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Water based lettering paint, gee, how nice,,,,NOT! I'd like to see a water based that can do all of the things I can do with 1-Shot. High pigment, flows like maple syrup, can be sprayed or brushed. Can you imagine striping a classic car with mud, oh I mean water based paint. I have lettering with Nova colors at Walldog events, it really sucks. It's more like pushing the paint rather than brushing it. Water based sign paint and electric cars, both something I can live without.
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
Back in the day, I used to do a fair amount of showcard lettering, and exclusively with red sables, since the showcard colours were all water-based. To get a nice flow, I added a couple of drops of Glycerin to the paint, and it flowed superbly. Another old trick to improve ashesion was to add some mucelage glue ( water-based) and that worked well when doing temporary windows. Now, I don't know if these old-time tricks would be effective with the new acrylics, but if one wished to experiment a bit, then maybe it might be worth a try.
Flotrol is an additive that IS recommended to improve the flow and extend the drying time when working with acrylics. It's particularly useful if brushing on a background colour and it does reduce brush marks. It's clear, so it doesn't affect the colour, but it does make the transparent colours, even more so.
For whatever it's worth, hopefully it might help someone.
PS: Alicia, Many of the present automotive colours are now water-borne...right from the factory. They cure to a nice gloss given the paint systems they now use. Oil & Lacquer based colours are going the way of the Dodo Bird, so it's a situation that you'll ultimately have to deal with. Unfortunately, even the present-day One-Shot products do not measure up to what they produced 15 years ago.
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
I've worked with Sho-Card paint years ago. Is it still available? It's great on a interior Sho-Card, but what about exterior applications? I don't want to go into politics, EPA regulations etc, but it's all about having products that are short term. Cars, appliances, basically the Gross National Product. Make em cheap, so the people (Suckers) will buy more. Okay, I'll shut up now.
Posted by Richard Heller (Member # 2443) on :
Hi Rick. Here's my attempt to answer you and address some of the other things touched on here so far. First, you are never going to duplicate the feel of a quill using one shot, or other solvent/lead/high pigment based product. As far as the "pull" as you put it, it depends on your style. I was taught to bend the brush and make more of a pushing motion than pulling it. Most of the old pinstripers I ran into used the pulling stroke. The pulling stroke will transfer more easily than the pushing because you will never have the snap from any of these brushes as you did with the old gray quills and one shot. I have used a ton of aqua cote and found it works as good as anything. I use it for quick paper signs or knocking out a script or casual letter. For reduction I use flo-trol to slow drying time without reducing viscosity (like penetrol) or XIM latex x-tender to slow drying and reduce viscosity. I use these often for faux finishing, you may come to like these more than the slower drying solvent enamels. None of these has worked well for me with tape--either bleeding or bridging, which is why I wouldn't use them for most lettering situations. I agree with Alicia completely on all that.
