I need to paint a box truck. It has painted aluminum sides with some existing graphics. I've removed the vinyl and glue, and sanded the edges of the painted stripes. There is some paint left and some areas where the aluminum is showing.
I want to use a long lasting paint. Maybe something with a catalyst/hardener like a polyurethane. I want to roll it if possible.
Are there any recommendations on primer and paint that can be rolled?
Thanks
Mark Rudder
[ June 20, 2012, 05:22 PM: Message edited by: Mark Rudder ]
Posted by Brian Oliver (Member # 2019) on :
I can't help you with a 2-part paint recommendation, but I've painted a number of box trucks with 1-Shot and have had real good luck with it. I primed with an appropriate universal primer and rolled on the base color then lettered with paint and vinyl. I've got some pictures of trucks I've done like this on my website if you'd like to check it out. And they've held up well.
Good luck.
Posted by Mark Rudder (Member # 1610) on :
Thanks Brian. I am just concerned about the durability. In the past I used to coat all my mdo with Chromatic which smooths out like glass, but I'm not sure how long it lasts.
I would like to get 4 or 5 years out of it.
The customer painted a different truck themselves using an epoxy and it has held up for about 6 years.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
a box truck is NOT A SHEET OF MDO!!!!! why would you even consider it as such? from what your saying there is BARE ALUMINUM and some painted areas. now i dont know you personally, but what your thinking of doin is so rednecky and wrong......... YOU EVER HEARD OF ECONOBAKE? MACCO? EARL SHIVE? and to quote mike holmes of HOLMES INSPECTIONS on HGTV........DO IT RIGHT THE 1ST TIME!!!!! take it to a body shop, let the PROFESSIONALS handle it!!!!
Posted by Mark Rudder (Member # 1610) on :
You mean the sides of the truck are not flat? Pretty flat in my estimation. It's just a sign, on a truck.
We used to coat out billboards...with a roller. Pretty much the same.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
yea ha we gona roller paint that ther truck with latex paint)))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Posted by Tim Barrow (Member # 576) on :
you'll need to prime the bare aluminum with some zinc-chromate self ecthing primer or you will get your feelings hurt,...paint will not stick to bare aluminum any better than it will to brand new galvanized tiffin panels and will start to pop in short manner,...after the bare metal is primed, sure you can put alot of other simple topcoats that will hold up according to the clients budget,...Bill Diaz was talking about a two part urethane that had a flow additive that could be rolled on with a high grade lambs wool roller cover in a post about top clearcoats recently,...more likely than not the same additive could be used with a color also
edited to add,...I've painted thousands of billboards (in a -period of over two decades) and never would I try to get bulletin color or lettering paint to stick to bare aluminum ,..it would be stupid and asking for trouble
[ June 21, 2012, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Tim Barrow ]
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
Hi Mark, I have been doing this stuff for 35+ years and how I would handle this is to wash it good, let it dry. Prime with a good oil base (XIM works for me) and add some hardener to Ronan or !-shot, and letter like an "old billboard" as it is. Under the circumstances offer no guarantee as this thing has seen some miles.
If they are want a guarantee as for a new vehicle, ask them to bring one. If you want to offer a guarantee as a new vehicle, follow OP's recomendation and have it painted at a body shop.
It's just lipstick on and old sow.
Posted by Ron Costa (Member # 3366) on :
x2 what Curt said. Best way = body shop. Next best is XIM. It will let you sleep nights.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
quote:I've removed the vinyl and glue, and sanded the edges of the painted stripes. There is some paint left and some areas where the aluminum is showing.
The thing that hit me was the sanding of the painted stripes.
Why would one sand off painted stripes? Easy-Off oven cleaner does it well without damaging the original finish.
I agree with Joe and others...have the box refinished profesionally and then do your thing.
Posted by Ricardo Davila (Member # 3854) on :
Hey, Joe,
What's wrong with you?.......This guy, obviously, doesn't know what he needs to do.....That is why he came to us, asking for help......Besides, he is a 60 year old man.... and I am sure that he did not come here to be mocked and much less ridiculed by any of us.
Show some respect, man.. ...I am sure that you, especially you, wouldn't like to be treated the way you are treating him.......Oh boy, I can imagine the stink that you would make if any of us would dare to respond to you in the same manner.
Be nice Joe, you know we love you.
Ricardo
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i was being nice..........i respond to how the post goes. 1. he asked for help. mu 1st post to him, was informative and to the point.......DOING WHAT HE INTENDED WAS NOT GOING TO WORK AND WOULD REFLECT ON HIM for doing a crappy job. my remark about what he was doing was REDNECKY AND WRONG........i left it at that.......and offered him the alternative of some cheap vehicle paint shops that would do the job right. 2. MY 2ND POST WAS after i said it wont work, this is what HE POSTED: You mean the sides of the truck are not flat? Pretty flat in my estimation. It's just a sign, on a truck.
We used to coat out billboards...with a roller. Pretty much the same. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO......i figured it was a waste of my time to offer him help because he just told me in that post.......THE TRUCK AND A BILLBOARD IS JUST ALIKE........... they AINT..........but he want to do this his way...........YEA HA....12 pack a beer and roller will GET ER DUN))))))))))))
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
You Know, I've rolled Tremclad Rust Paint on all kinds of surfaces with great results, I used a sponge roller. But of course the surface has to be sanded cleaned and degreased... maybe the owner just doean't have the budget for a Body Shop type of Paint Job.. it may be an old tired truck that just need a little paint to spruce it up... I would'nt Guarantee anything, but that Tremclad sticks pretty darn good.... just an after thought.. Could'nt hurt to test a small area.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
IF.......the truck is worth spending the MONEY ON LETTERING IT.........THEN WHY IS NOT WORTH putting the proper PAINT ON THE SURFACE TO BE LETTERED????? so you would go buy a UNPAINTED sheet of aluminum, then ROLLER PAINT IT with whatever........AND THEN letter on that and consider you have done the client well??? sorry........not my way of doing things. i say this because 1 of my good customers tried to get me to LETTER A BOX TRUCK...that they had ROLLER PAINTED with i have no idea what the heck it was. NO 1.......it looked like crap!!!! the whole surface was ORANGE PEEL....3 times the size of any orange i ever seen. vinyl would never stick to this, and to paint it..........i have seen stucco smoother. NO 2. i walked around the truck, and there was places that this paint they put on 60 days earlier was now PEELING OFF!!!!! i flat out told em that i wouldnt even attempt lettering it. this was 2 years ago......truck is dead now...UNLETTERED!!!!
[ June 21, 2012, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
Bottom line......follow some of the advice given above, or you're going to be opening the door to getting yourself in trouble. If it's bare aluminum, or has bare spots, they HAVE to be primered with an etching primer. I don't know if zinc chromate is still available, but a local body shop supplier can give you the right stuff. XIM (white) is good primer. DON'T use 1 Shot! Our beloved sign paints of the past are no longer; today's stuff is pretty much CRAP. Sorry. But there are industrial enamels that can be used (Sherwin-Williams, etc. if you insist on rolling it). But be sure to put hardener in it. Keep in mind....the primers particularly are going to want to set up pretty quickly, so you're going to probably have roller marks. This job would be best done by a shop, like Joe said; but if the customer is acceptable to a less than perfect job, then have at it, and good luck.
Posted by Preston McCall (Member # 351) on :
Joe Pribish is on the right track with letting a body shop do the coat out, first. No matter how old the truck is, you are still responsible for the bare aluminum. Ask any lawyer! Zinc chromate prime and auto type paint for the sides is best, but a synthol (or alkyd enamel) will get you a long lasting finish and will cost less than your fine lettering. Not worth taking risks with the paint popping off in a few months. Would hate to hear that you then have to do a complete strip and start all over.
EZ Off oven cleaner on bare aluminum? I am not sure it would not eat into the alum. For stripping, I would prefer using a 30 min stripper on the stripes and expect some of the original finish to pop off as well. Aluminum is tricky stuff to work with. Napa used to sell "Aircraft" stripper, which obviously was meant for alum. Any auto body paint store will tell you the right stuff for aluminum.
I had to strip a Jaguar XK120 down the the metal with alum doors, deck lid and hood and used the aircraft stripper stuff from NAPA. After I finally got down the metal, we sanded, etched with Zep-alum and primed with an aircraft epoxy primer. Gave it many, many coats of acrylic lacquer and the results 30 years later are still 100%. No pitting, no pop offs and zero change in look ever since. I have to see the car on a regular basis as it is in a collection of a friend of mine and it still looks like the day I delivered the finished project to the original owner.
The whole point of Letterville is to talk responsibly about how to do things right. We share information here about painting and signs. I have learned very much over the years, here, and especially from Dr. Joe. Do it right from the beginning and you will reap the rewards! Measure twice, cut once.
[ June 21, 2012, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Preston McCall ]
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
XIM, is available at most Sherwin Williams, stores. Seek proper data on how to use it.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I've gotten expensive lessons from using anything that wasn't an etching primer on bare Aluminum. XIM Flash Bond was one of those educational experiences.
After paint started coming off some panels, our customer complained that they hadn't been primed. I told him XIM was a clear primer and he replied, "I'm not aware of any clear primers for Aluminum." After we got out there and saw the sheets of paint coming off, we had to agree.
After that, we started using Akzo Nobel Grip-Gard Washprimer and have never had a problem since. We buy it in two gallon lots, a gallon each of both Part A and B. I don't know if it is available in quarts. It goes a long way and has a lengthy shelf life unmixed. After mixing, the pot life in plastic is three days, however, if mixed and stored in metal it is eight hours. I put any extra mixed primer in a jar with the date on top.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
quote: EZ Off oven cleaner on bare aluminum? I am not sure it would not eat into the alum.
Preston..I was suggesting that it would be preferable to sanding stripes and exposing bare aluminum.
And YES..Easy-Off is tough on bare aluminum!! I learned that the hard way!!!
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Mathews paint is urethane and you can add a brushing/rolling catalyst so you can roll it. Mathews also has the proper primer for bare aluminum. This would be way cheaper than a body shop job and give you a 10 year finish. Midwest sign is a distributor.
[ June 21, 2012, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
XIM 300 flash bond is what we used years ago on Tiffin Panels for billboards. It was clear and had a shellac looking consistancy. The XIM of today might not be as good...
[ June 22, 2012, 12:45 AM: Message edited by: jack wills ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
lets just count how many things can go wrong doing the truck other then BODY SHOP PAINTING IT 1ST. 1. rolling on the primer. yea it will cover the bare aluminum. BUT DID IT BITE? this meaning it has a firm grip on the bare aluminum? without that any thing you do from here is a waste of time and money. 2. so we get it rolled out with primer, it dries, you proceed with a top coat of whatever(other then an AUTOMOTIVE TYPE PAINT). it dries. looks somewhay decent, few roller lines in it. depending on the nap of the roller it may look like your living room or ceiling of your house. 3. NOW YOU WILL find out if you wasted time and material. take a 5-6 wide X 18-24" long strip of the vinyl you plan on applying......lay it on the painted surface in a couple different place. pres it on there well. NOW PULL THE VINYL OFF.......if no SURFACE PAINT comes up with it......then it was a sucess. IF IT PEELS THE PAINT(iam betting a 50:1, that it will peel the paint) YOU WILL HAVE TO REMOVE ALL THE PAINT ON THE TRUCK....and then take it to a BODY SHOP to have it painted properly. 4. ENJOY..............
Posted by Dale Feicke (Member # 767) on :
I'm surprised that you had that good of luck with the clear XIM, Jack. We had issues with it.
The white XIM, in contrast was terrific.
I still would not advise using it on bare aluminum.....but I wouldn't be surprised if it'd work. It sticks to glass.
Posted by Ron Costa (Member # 3366) on :
I still use XIM Flashbond on MDO Panels. The edges however need extra protection and care. More revelant to this post, I have used XIM FB on aluminum mailboxes prior to airbrushing. Great adhesion promoter.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I use clear XIM when I painted the chrome bumpers on my 57 Chevy, they held up fine for years.
