Had a strange thing happen last week. I have a client I have had for probably 15 years. Now he is not a big client, but every year or so he has me do a small job. Several years ago he had me do a partial wrap on his van. All totalled he has done MAYBE 10k with me. So he is very small client. The wrap covered from the front door all the way around to the back of the other front door. Nothing on the roof. A few weeks ago he called and said he bought a new van and wanted graphics again. He wanted to know what it would cost to do the same thing as last ime. But he also wanted to know if I could price for him 4 other ways. Just from the windows down, existing design with the front doors as well, all the way around from the windows down including front fenders and hood, all the way around with just the back windows and the trunk window. Then he wanted a price on stripping his existing van. So I did all of this. Then he phoned me and asked me about the stripping of the van. I had quoted $500. I quoted $500 because I knew it would be less than that, but that would be the maximum I would charge him I told him that. I also said it took only a few hours when I did mine and if it took only that I would charge him only that. Then he wanted to know if he could strip it himself. I said sure. But there will probably be residual glue on it that will have to be removed. Then he wanted to know what product I used to take off residual glue. I told him. Then he wanted to know how long it would take me. I said well that's the thing, I would think it will only take a few hours, but removing the residual glue took a few hours too. After all there are quite a few nooks and crannies to clean out. Well then he wanted to know if he could come out to our shop and remove it himself, as he has no shop and its below freezing here. I said no. I said my husband is working out in the shop, and chances are the parts of the shop he is not using I will be using. (I have quite a few vehicles this time of year to do) Fine he said and hung up. Then he emailed me and asked what it would cost for the wrap to go all the way around but not the hood. And I emailed him back and said well let's think about this Neil- do you think it would look right done all the way to the front fenders and then not on the hood? I am charging by the square foot and really there is not a whole lot of square footage on a hood in comparison to the whole van. He was just giving me the impression I was trying to rip him off making me price it 6 different ways. Then I said, if you think I am ripping you off in some way try phoning this company and this company and see what they would charge you. And while you are at it, ask them if they would let you use their shop to strip and clean your van. I was being quite honest with the man I thought. If you don't like my prices try them. I thought well this would show him my prices are competitive, and how out of line he was about asking to use our shop.
Well did he slam me!!!! Included in his email were things like I have never been insulted by anyone in business this way before, I can't believe you said the things you did, your conduct is disgraceful etc etc etc. I emailed him back and said I did not think I had said anything wrong? I had not sworn at him or belittled him as far as I was concerned. No, I did not put a hundred little smiley faces in my email, but frankly I did not think there was anything wrong with my conduct. And he did not answer me. So I thought well, maybe he didn't get it, so I sent it to his other email address. Well I still have not heard anything back. Do you folks think I should persue this? Frankly I would really like to tell him to go rub salt, but I haven't. The only thing I am worried about is this is a small town mentality around here and I really don't need him running around badmouthing me too much.
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
"The only thing I am worried about is this is a small town mentality around here and I really don't need him running around badmouthing me too much."
That's the bad part about small towns, eh? I'd likely take a big breath and phone him (or better yet go visit him) and tell him that I was sorry he took my comments as insulting, that it wasn't my intention. It will get if off your chest and you can move on.
Just be careful about getting defensive about his reaction and your rights, you can bet if you talk about the situation to others it will get back to him.
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
Yeah, I haven't talked to anyone around here about it. I thought about phoning him last week, and decided because he emailed me instead of phoning that my response should be the same. I am worried about what I may say in person if his reaction is, well, negative towards me. I do tend to respond quickly and cuttingly. And that is why I haven't gone knocking on his door. I thought the email would give me time to count between each sentence and hold my tongue.
Signed The Sign Witch
Posted by Bob Sauls (Member # 11321) on :
Deri, I would try to patch things up but that is my nature. I do tend to care a bit too much what people think and feel but it is not based on lossing their business. I would be the one offended rather than the offender. I can see your frustration at pricing a job 7 ways from Sunday, and it is understandable why you might feel this was a demonstration of mistrust. I do get some under-funded customers these days and they are just having to be uncharacteristically frugal. Keep your chin up and serve those customers as well as they will let you, that's how we all win. Doing all you can will free you.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
What I gathered by your post Deri, was it appears the customer was trying to figure out how much he could get for his budget. I recently had a good customer ask for a similar quote on a van. After my initial quote, he informed me that my quote was more than he wanted to spend, and could I redesign it to make it less costly. I told him I sure could, if he told me what he wanted to spend, or even a range to stay within, I could then design something to fit his budget.
I may be wrong, but that is what I read into it.
Posted by Randy Howe (Member # 994) on :
I was getting ****ed off at the guy just reading about the runaround he was putting you through - you were extremely patient in my opinion, finally he pushed you to far and you told him what he needed to be told. I personally wouldn't worry too much about the small town thing - I'm guessing you're quite well respected because of the length of time you've been in business - and finally saying enough is enough in a situation like this should only earn you more respect with anyone who has an ounce of sense.
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
It's just business. I'm finding even my good, long time customers, wanting more for less! Im not really good at wheelin' and dealin'. It's take it or leave it. Next!
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Winner ....Winner ....Winner Bob Rochon got it perfect!
[ January 26, 2011, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: John Arnott ]
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
I think you were more than patient. I don't know the answer but I think I would try to make up with the guy. You might call him and try to get to the bottom of the problem and ask him what he was trying to accomplish (in a nice way). Tell him if he is on a budget, you can accommodate him but that if he looked at it from YOUR standpoint, you are doing a bunch of work estimating this and that and have nothing to show for it. You are trying to meet his expectations but you also have other jobs that are sitting there waiting to go out the door. You want to make him happy, but you just don't know what he is looking for. Befriend him and try to get him to see what you are going through.
And if that doesn't work, kick him to the curb. Chances are if he DOES bad mouth you, he probably has a reputation for doing that and people will take it with a grain of salt. We had a VERY irrate customer a while back and after he swore at me, Joe literally told him to get out of our shop and never come back! I was worried about him bad mouthing us too. Come to find out, he is known for his temper and everyone who has dealt with him rolls their eyes when his name in mentioned. We are just one of many that have "offended" him over the years. Oh well! Now I don't have to deal with his attitude anymore! Once in a while, you have to fire a customer!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
"I love mankind. Its people I can't stand" ~Linus VanPelt
Unfortunately, how things are "read" vs. how they are spoken can invoke different reactions. I think that his what happened here.
If you want to keep him as a customer, call him. If not, don't worry about it.
I've found that people who go around bad-mouthing other people tend to shoot themselves in the foot while its still wedged in their mouth.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Terri, When I met you, I had no Idea you were that Rude, honestly, your bad....lol. Geeze Louise, I think your a lot like me, afraid of what people think of us... Hold your head High Girl, there's no need to feel bad.. you were as patient as can be.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Well, I think you did 'ok' for the most part Deri... Him asking if he could use YOUR shop, which of course includes YOUR heat, and YOUR electricity, and YOUR insurance is an example of HIM treating you poorly.
Would he let you just pull up into his driveway and say, "I don't think I can make it to Wal-Mart... can I use your bathroom???"
Or, maybe he would let you have a bridal shower in his living room because it might accommodate more people than yours.
Yeah - you could have ignored his comments and told him Insurance regulations won't allow the public in your working area... and brushed off the rest of his brazen requests... maybe approached it from a nicer angle. But, if he can't realize he was trying to use you for HIS benefit... then to the curb he goes.
Posted by Dan Beach (Member # 9850) on :
You should call him. He is obviously having problems that aren't related to you and he is taking it out on you.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
I've had a couple of customers like that in the past-their angle is to twist the lowest possible price from you, even if it takes you twice as long because of all the recalculations & talk/salsmanship with them. Painful...and you don't tnjoy it either as you're spending more & more time & ultimately getting less & getting boxed in to a price that might hurt.
Bob's idea of trying to establish their budget is the way to go-if you want the work from them at all, that is.
Posted by Bill Wood (Member # 6543) on :
Knocking on your neighbors door asking to borrow some sugar is one thing...asking to borrow his toothbrush is another.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
You have nothing to worry about. There is nothing he can say that will ruin your business. Only you can hurt your business.
Can he turn a few clients away? Well maybe one or two over the short run. In the long run he is just another cloud in the sky passing thru. When people have a need they will call you irregardless of what he says.
Posted by Dennis Kiernan (Member # 12202) on :
The thing I hear most whenever I go into any store to buy something is "How much are you willing to spend on this?" I realize at once that the guy isnt in business to waste a lot of time showing and explaining everything in the place. I give him a ballpark figure and he shows me what he's got in that range. Usually he'll say, "But for a little more, you might want this . . ." That's all you can afford to do, unless you're running a charity. Business is business.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Deri, I don't think you said anything wrong, but I do think that if you are dealing with email ... it's all in the delivery. People will read tones into the written word that aren't intended. Usually leaning towards the negative too, unfortunately.
I find that when communicating with emails, alittle extra sugar coating, and clarity with intent is always best. haha
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
I can't get past the fact he wanted to use your shop for free...pffft. Personally, I think you were reasonable and I would leave the ball in his court. I had a customer(cheap...frugel, whatever)want to borrow my power tools(to take home to use)to cut boards...after asking me for free scraps(which I gave them.) Are you f'n kidding me? aaah no I don't think so pal. He's the one who is insulting not you. We are all in business to make money. He bought a new van, he can pay the price to have it lettered...and pay to remove the old lettering too. No love from me...lol!
[ January 27, 2011, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
It's funny as I read these reactions- they are exactly what is going on in my head. One hour I think I should call him, the next I think why do I want a customer like that, then the next I think well I really don't need him running around bad mouthing me. It's rather a mixed bag. And yes I did ask him several times, if you can give me a budget I can see what I can cover on your van effectively. But he never did. So, being as it has been over a week (I was giving him the benefit of the doubt in case he was away on holiday or something and didn't get his email), I think I will leave it for now. Sooner or later, within the next four years (LOL) I am going to need blinds for our new living room windows I am saving for, and I can go into his shop. And then I can decide which way to go if things haven't changed between now and then. And then I think I will change my mind 4 or 5 times. And get him to estimate them 4 or 5 times. AAAHHHH! THEN, I will call a new customer I got yesterday, and have my windows covered in tint! HA On HIM!!!
Yahahahahaha! Evil Laugh.
Seriously though, if he had been a customer who spent more with me than he did, I might consider crawling back. But when I look at the overall picture, I doubt if just too many business people in town will pay much attention to his ramblings. (I hope)
Thanks for your thoughts folks. If every one of you had come on and said Crawl Deri Crawl, I probably would have, but you folks have given me the confidence to say NO, I won't. Thank you.
Posted by bill riedel (Member # 607) on :
It sounds like you would be sorry to get back to him, do you think you could be comfortable working on his van knowing you will probably have to beg for your money. The advice from an old man would be like they say in Brooklyn, FORGETABOUTIT. Bill
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Bill is right. You didn't do anything wrong. Why go and kiss the guy's hiney just so he can make you go through all sorts of gymnastics on various types of bids? And I am from a small town. Don't worry, there will soon be some eBay sign person with a Cricut more than happy to jump through this guy's hoops. Love....Jill
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
If emails go back and forth more than a couple times, I generally pick up the phone to speed up the process as well as not have the intent misread. I agree with nettie, the written word can be delivered very differently than verbally. If a papertrail is desired, I'll make the call but then email the terms for the final proof.
However, if this thing is still revisiting in your head, it's my suggestion to make things right so it goes away. That little voice is speaking to you for a reason. Gotta do what's right for YOU.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Forgot to add... I had one customer that did much the same as what yours did. Kept asking for different options and terms. The final straw was when he wanted to use my shop AND all my tools. I simply said I don't currently rent space out as it's needed for my own biz. Posted by Brian Oliver (Member # 2019) on :
Deri,
In my experience, when someone goes off on you like your customer did, it usually means that your suspicions of his intentions were correct and he felt embarrassed about getting caught...His reaction was his way of trying to misdirect the blame back onto you.
Good luck.
Posted by Joy Kjer (Member # 3026) on :
Besides everything else that has been said here, there is a liability issue of a customer using your space or tools. Most insurers would absolutely forbid it.
Posted by Chuck Churchill (Member # 68) on :
Deri...You should suggest the dealership where he bought the vehicle. Maybe they will let him use there bay when he takes it in for the initial checkup.
We have let one customer use our bay when he wanted to letter a van in the dead of winter. Not a big client but always friendly and helpful when we have needed their services.
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Chances are if he DOES bad mouth you, he probably has a reputation for doing that and people will take it with a grain of salt. We had a VERY irrate customer a while back and after he swore at me, Joe literally told him to get out of our shop and never come back! I was worried about him bad mouthing us too. Come to find out, he is known for his temper and everyone who has dealt with him rolls their eyes when his name in mentioned. We are just one of many that have "offended" him over the years. Oh well! Now I don't have to deal with his attitude anymore! Once in a while, you have to fire a customer!
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