This is topic 1-shot colors and Pantone colors in forum Old Archives at The Letterville BullBoard.

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Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
i'm trying to create a swatch pallate of the 1-shot enamel colors using the PMS numbers. this way i can design in Illustrator using the PMS numbers that i know will match my paints (rather than trying to match the paints to the numbers afterwards). it will also help in printing out color samples or posting proofs to the web for the customer's approval -- they'll see the design in the colors i'll be painting with.

so, has anybody else tried this? i've been trying to pick the PMS colors closest to the 1-shot swatches, but if somebody else has done it already, then maybe i can just use yours and not re-invent a wheel.

if nobody else has this, then i'll post what i come up with in a few days.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
If memory serves there is a PMS-One shot swatch book, with formulas.....though I specify Matthews only, they have all the PMS formulas and do PMS color matching in different sheens.
Posted by EmpY (Member # 138) on :
I have the COLORTONES color selector and formula guide (from 1991).

It's got an address of PO Box 3095, Walnut Creek CA 94598 and phone number 510/939-1129

I think it was being distributed through a lot of sign supply companies. When I bought it back then it cost $53.95 which was close to the same price as a Pantone chart.

The COLORTONES chart is all the colors you can mix using mostly bulletin colors of sign paint.
It's a little confusing at first, how to come up with the mix for a specific color shown in the chart, but it does work once you figure out what they want you to mix.
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
REMEMBER: Pantone colors are made for printing inks.
These are "translucent" colors
You and Empy are on the same line of thinking as to where to get and use a color matching system using "opaque" paints.
Hope this helps
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
This may not be relevant, but I remember reading in one of the sign mags.some years ago that someone was compiling a PMS 'recipe' book based on Chromatic lettering colors. This was way back when PMS only had like 200+ colors.

My one question is just how would you measure out the individual paints? Maybe a digital scale would be the trick.

Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
well, i guess i wasn't clear at the beginning. i'm NOT trying to mix 1-shot to match PMS colors (i already do that). i'm doing the opposite -- i'm trying to find the PMS colors that match the 1-shot colors.

i design in Illustrator, and that software has all the PMS colors loaded. my inkjet printer does a great job of printing color proofs that are very close to the PMS numbers specified. so, if i know which PMS color matches "bright red" or "Kansas City Teal" then i can print out proofs for the customer that will pretty much match the paints i'm going to use.

am i the only one who does this?
Posted by Bill Cosharek (Member # 1274) on :

What you could do is take your PMS chart & match as close as you can to actual 1-shot color chips. Now that's only gonna work if the PMS chart colors match the software's rendering of the colors. Just remember you can't exactly match inks & paints & RGB's.

The Colortone guide has pure colors listed but most likely does not include all the colors you're looking for.

Did that make sense?
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
Scooter,I am sure that this is just ME.....but I
always have the customer on my "home court"
Looking at my One Shot chip page to pick the color (closest) to thier needs!Trusting my judgement.
IF NOT....then the customer is running your business,NOT you.
Hope this helps
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
What your talking about is an act of futility...but everyone needs to beat them selves up once in a while.

Think of it thisway ...if it were something worth doing you could find it anywhere.

Whoever created the pantone matching system single handedly made PMS the normal malady of all sign men and women...and should never be forgiven.

What Pat said about the difference in inks (tranparent) and paints (opaque) is true and rarely allows for matching no matter which way you are headed.

Remember too that even the printers (whos industry PMS colors were meant for) are allowed to be off on their spectrometers 10 percent either way (thats 20 percent you could be off)...none of my customers allow me that kind of variance...they want it "dead on".
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
Not to get off the subject too far, but if you want to have fun, take a one shot color chart to a name brand paint store, and try to get a match in any of their outdoor acrylic latex paints.

No can do.......
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Thats a fact Jeff..
Posted by Ernie&DianeBalch (Member # 1301) on :
The Colortone matching guide had been sold though Sign Craft Magazine. Unfortunatly the person who developed it and made them has passsed away, and it is no longer available. I was fortunate enough to buy one second hand through this great bull board. I use it whenever a customer wants a color other than out of the can. I charge them a $30 paint matching fee.

Diane Balch
Posted by Steven Vandervate (Member # 3025) on :
You could always scan the 1 Shot chart, place it in Illustrator and sample out a new swatch set. Then just name each swatch with the corresponding number/name and save the document to your swatches folder under an appropriate name. Open a new document, load the 1 Shot swatches you just created and set the pallet to "persistent". I've done the same thing in Flexi as well, using vinyl chart scans...

Hope this helps,
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
thanks Van -- i think you're the only person who seems to understand what i was talking about...

i'll probably just resort to matching the colors from the 1-shot chart to the PMS book by eye -- i'm not sure my scanner renders colors all that accurately.

i'm sort of suprised that nobody else has done this.
Posted by Bill Cosharek (Member # 1274) on :
So What did I say?
I guess it doesn't matter.

I understand what you're trying to do. I just can't understand why. Like Pat & Monte stated, you're Never gonna match those colors anyway.

Most of us use the base 1-shot paints as a starting point & mix them together to achieve pleasing combinations of paint colors which enhance the final product. It would be tough to supply matching PMS #s for them. But, you do what you want.

I don't recall if I ever charted 1shots, but I did it with Prismacolor markers. This was before I got into computers. But I was more concerned with charting colors to their grey-scale value & using PMS #s as starting point for mixing.

As far as scanning goes, check to see if your scanner software has options to adjust colors prior to scanning. This may help.


Well...actually Scooter.
Guess who did that about ten & a half years ago? Went to look at the chart & what do you think I found there in amongst my notes? I can't guarantee them as exact, but probably real close. Any newer colors wont be on the list. And there's still no guarantee that they'll match what you see on the screen. So, do I gotta re-type all this? Or should I just copy it? I don't remember how long it took but there's only 1 date on it. Looks like a lot of eye-strain there. [Smile] So, how much do you think its worth? I probably think its worth more because I charted both Chromatic & 1-Shot. You don't need'm both - do you?

But I think we differ on our reason why. You prefer to match Pms #s to 1Shot for customer approval. I used them for mixing purposes only.

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