Nettie's kerning post made me cringe while I thought about my earlier days when designing. So, if this info can help anyone, I've done my job here.
Kerning
I still have ringing in my ears when my graphics teacher bellowed down at me for not kerning one letter on a logo I was developing. I tried in vain to look for what he was referring to. The computer had done a good job executing the text, and I failed to see the problem.
Here was the problem. An upper case A was in front of an upper case T. As seen in sample 1, some fonts type out each letter in their own 'slot' so to speak. The A and T in close proximity create an airpocket of space that may need to be tightened up with some fonts.
Think like a painter... would a painter have painted those letters like that? NO.
I do have a question at this point. What should one do with the space between the T and the E in the lower area? Is the 2nd or 3rd WATER the appropriate way?
Something else stayed with me. During class my instructor was showing the students some award winning logos. Later, he referred to our kerning efforts as either award winning or not, no inbetween was allowed.
Would a painter think like that? YES.
In sample 2, it shows the computer generated version and the hand kerned version to the extreme. The latter has a designer feel to it.
Leading
From that day on, I was a kerning fanatic. Ah, but not only kerning, (spacing between the letters), but leading (spacing between lines of text) was another trick in the ol' art guy.
The two samples under 3 can both be practical, depending on what effect you're after. I was encouraged to not fear lots of leading space, so it's always fun to experiment.
For the handpainters out there, this is common knowledge. I had to learn to think like I was painting the letters in order to understand. So a painter I became, even if in spirit only.
And because of this, my experience is limited. If someone else can shed some light on the subject, I'm already rolling up my sleeves waiting to dive into a learning frenzy.
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Graphic Impact
located in BC Canada
gisigns@sprint.ca
Season's Greetings everyone!
We covered alot of this in first year. I always remember the kerning like this...
You look at the areas as being filled up with water or sand (or concrete 
) and that all the spaces between the letters should hold the same amout of stuff. Two straights are farthest apart of them all. L & A together are a pain.
I also like to print something off, then hold it in front of a mirror. Then you don't get so stuck on what it says - you can look at the overall shape balance of everything. Sometimes even upside down in front of the mirror (the paper, not you... well, ok, that depends on the day...)
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Dana Aaron
Sign-A-Saurus
Nevis, MN
ICQ# 37949659
When you're swimming in the creek,
and an eel bites your cheek,
that's a moray!
This is probably one of the things that drives the serious sign people crazy...seeing signs knocked out w/o any knowledge or caring of what it should look like. If I understand your question correctly, I'd go with the 3rd "WATER". Letter spacing is a visual thing, not a mathematical science.
Another point the word "WATER" brings up is the visual center. My program will point out the mathematical center of the word, but to make it look like it is in the center of a substrate, the whole word would actually have to be moved abit to the left. That's because of the slant of the 1st stroke of the "W". This is true with rounded letters also (C,O,Q,etc). They do not appear to extend to the right or left as far as a straight letter, so if a line of copy starts with a straight letter and ends with a round letter, it may have to be nudged abit in the direction of the round letter.
Just my thoughts,
John
PS I went back to look at that word "WATER" again after posting. 2 or 3 is a closer call than I originally thought, but I'll stick with 3, 'cause the visual spacing in the middle of the letters (half way up the letters) seems better. Actually, this may be one of those words that requires kerning more than one letter to make it look right.
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John Novicki
Sign Painter
Minot, ME
[This message has been edited by John Novicki (edited December 11, 1999).]
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Bill Riedel
Riedel Sign Co., Inc.
Little Ferry, NJ
billsr@riedelsignco.com
This is the kind of improvisational kerning that gives painted lettering the "look" or "feel" that is so often missing in computer-generated copy; that is often spoken of but rarely analyzed. Our eyes see the word as a whole, as a visual image; the computer cannot "see" anything, it is solving a mathematical formula based upon information that is provided.
Here's an example of a "painters trick". Take the word MATERIALS. In it are two A's in very different settings. The first A is flanked by the M, which has a vertical stroke facing the A, and a T, which has the overhanging horizontal. Standard kerning puts the right foot of the A beneath the overhanging T. The painters trick is to slightly vary the angles of the diagonals which make up the A, making the side toward the M a bit steeper than the side toward the T. It's not enough difference to see when you are reading the sign; you have to look at the letter itself to notice. The other A is between two verticals (I and L) and is centered between them. To "think like a painter", these are the subtleties you will notice and the adjustments that you will make while executing the work.
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"A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
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Cam
Finest Kind Signs
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Ken Henry
Henry & Henry Signs
London, Ontario Canada
(519) 439-1881
e-mail kjmlhenry@home.com
Great post!
This is the stuff of letterheads no matter what the medium. Keep the knowlege flowing!
-dan
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Dan Sawatzky
Sawatzky's Imagination Corporation
Chemainus, British Columbia
dan@imaginationcorporation.ca
www.imaginationcorporation.ca
"Back in beautiful British Columbia and lovin it!"
Donna! Good girl! Another winner post!
I usually judge the spacing of a layout by sitting back and looking for the "gaps" or "crowding" that seem out of place.
There is one rule of thumb that I feel is pretty basic, and yet I see it broken time and time again. It's one of my major layout pet peeves. I like to see more air in the margin areas than between the words in a line of copy. I cringe when I see things running out to the edge of any panel area, while big gaps appear between the words in a line.
Also, if there are punctuations, like comma's , periods and apostrophe's that take up less visual space in a line of copy, I compensate by tightening the kerning in those areas too.
In regards to periods or multiple dots (as in etc ... ) I will often times adjust the centering in a group of lines as the added air space will usually make the layout look off center even if technically is centered.
Biggest Law of Layout I can advise?
Use your eyes!!!
Nettie
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Since the spacing between 'WA' and 'ER' are both so tight, I would tighten up on both sides of the 'T'. I would combine the 'AT' spacing of #2 with the 'TE' spacing of #3. If this were light letters on dark, I would generally open all the spaces a bit.
It's true that some combinations just can't be made to look pleasant, no matter what you do.
Brad in Arkansas
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Brad Ferguson
4782 West Highway 22
Paris AR 72855
501-963-2642
signbrad@cswnet.com
I won't even begin to tell you which kerning techniques are right or wrong. But imagine trying to kern an ENTIRE font so that not only does the word WATER look good, but so does the word LAWYER and JUMP and POLICE, and, well, you get the point. Whilst kerning a font, I have to remember that every single word in the English language has the potential to be typed on the screen. A font designed to meet that criteria, therefore, can sometimes have as many as 6,000 or more kerned pairs, and trust me, that ain't bragging. I say it with a sigh of relief, not an air of attitude.
So if there's two thing I have learned about kerning, in my professional opinion, it is this:
1. No matter how well I kern a font, someone else will hand kern it before it's over. It is literally impossible to foresee every possible combination. I can't kern only one word, so I work at kerning whole alphabets.
2. For signwork, keep the letterspacing a little loose ... it never hurts ... and the reason is simple: Even horrible kerning, if the letters aren't tight (except on logos) looks good enough when read at a distance and read with speed (which is how most people read a sign, very quickly!).
That's my lecture on kerning. I have to go now, because, well, I'm kerning tonite!
Mike @ the Fontry
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Bob Darnell
London, Ontario, Canada
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Dana Aaron
Sign-A-Saurus
Nevis, MN
ICQ# 37949659
When you're swimming in the creek,
and an eel bites your cheek,
that's a moray!
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Adrienne Morgan
Splash Signs/ Rainkatt Studios
"I really should be out painting right now"
>^,,^<
Benicia, CA
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Ken Henry
Henry & Henry Signs
London, Ontario Canada
(519) 439-1881
e-mail kjmlhenry@home.com
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