posted
I was whining to Dusty Campbell today about losing several bids on sandblasted signs recently due to price. I would attempt to educate the person I was dealing with about materials, design, durability, etc., then lose out when it was presented to a board or committee who chose to see only the lowest price. I wished for a line I could use that would somehow explain why my price was higher, but yet, a better choice than the low-baller.
Dusty said, "Tell 'em they CAN'T GET A STEAK AT McDONALD'S"
Thanks, Dusty, you nailed it.......
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4116 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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When i used to have to quote jobs against other sign shops and lost to lower bids I would say to them, " we will talk again in a couple of short years" They would ask what I meant.
I said no matter who the sign shop is doing your work, if it is that low it can only be one or two things.
one, they don't know how to price and are working so cheap they probably wont be around in the future to maintain or fix any problems.
or two, they are using such cheap material and ways to make the sign that in a couple of years you may see that you are in the same spot you are now, getting quotes for signs.
Then you may see what you pay for is what you get.
I now have Great clients that went that route and did come to me and I have been working on top quality signs for them for years.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1697 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
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This is a little more long winded, but here's one of my favorite business related quotes:
It's unwise to pay too much...but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money...that is all.
When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do.
The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot....it can not be done.
If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better.
-John Ruskin
Dealing with subdivision people, I think you have to appeal to their business sense. Emphasize that their entry sign is the image for the subdivision. An ugly/cheap looking sign subconsciously reflects on all the houses in the subdivision. The houses should sell faster at better prices if they have a better image.
I've been thinking about this recently because I've been talking to a group of civil engineers who possibly want to work with me to include subdivision sign design in their planning work. I think this could be great because the sign would be designed from the start rather than one of the last things done. I see too many subdivision signs where the name of the subdivision is too long for the area on the entry brickwork, so they use 3" letters to make it fit.
Maybe this is something we can work on together Sonny since you've got more experience in this area.
posted
The more I think about it. What I said isn't really fair comment. I've had a cold and have been pretty grumpy and I was sitting in traffic going by a franchise sign shop when the thought popped into my head. Looking deeper it was motivated by fear. While it's true you can't get a steak at McDonalds, it is actually a subtle sarcastic jab at franchise shops and I don't think it's universally true. For example I bet Ricky Jackson's shop puts out some incredible work. I'd rather tout my strengths than get a sale from pointing out another's shortcomings. Sorry for the negative vibes. Now I feel a little more heroic.
posted
I cant remember who said it in here a couple of years ago, but it went something like this:
"Ms/Sir. We aren't the cheap sign company. We're the good sign company." I really liked it then and I still like it now.
Edited to add. If it sounds like it has a slightly negative tone...well, I still like it. It is meant for the obvious tire kicker. I've used it and never had anyone go "harumph" and walk out. It bluntly sets a tone reflecting the type of work you do. Not Cheap. Good. It also has a little reverse phsychology. (Oh, I'm looking for good...I'm not a cheapskate.)
[ February 18, 2007, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: William Holohan ]
-------------------- William "Irish" Holohan Resting...Read "Between Jobs." Marlboro, MA 01752 email: firemap1@aol.com Posts: 1110 | From: Marlboro, MA | Registered: Dec 2001
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posted
OK, I'm over it and back to a positive attitude and good will to mankind. Speaking of Goodwill, we shopped there today and got all dressed up and went out on the town. I think Peggy's hair looks good blue....
-------------------- www.signcreations.net Sonny Franks Lilburn, GA 770-923-9933 Posts: 4116 | From: Lilburn, GA USA | Registered: Feb 1999
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posted
To be totally politically correct here, Dusty, I didn't even read a slam towards franchises in your comment. You can also deliver crap if you aren't a franchise too so I saw it as simply a universal statement that if you go somewhere that pumps out crap, that is what you will get.
posted
I guess I became someone's hero for a day last week in the regular course of doing what I love best about running my shop, which is using my years of experience, first for "problem solving" and second for meticulous production of whatever solution rose to the top as the best one for the problem at hand. I certainly have never tried to, or wanted to be the cheapest sign guy, & have been told more then once that I was getting someones work, even though I wasn't the cheapest. The recent occurance included several comments of appreciation for little "extra" areas of service that I don't consider, extra, but I guess folks who have been to the "competition" feel as though it is. On completion of this recent job, I received more praise & half-jokingly said "of course, you'll put that in writing for my new website won't you?"
I got a testimonial yesterday that I'll paste in here for it's relevance to this thread. Not everyone sees the value in a higher price... but when we charge a higher price, we afford ourselves the luxury of doing all the jobs we do at a higher standard of excellence, which for most of us letterhead types... is the way we try to do everything anyway.
quote:To whom it may concern:
I would like to share this letter of recommendation to anyone considering using the services of Island Sign and especially Doug Allan. Starting a new business involves so many changes and having new signs made is just one of the many steps involved.
I showed my business card/logo to 2 different signmakers and told them how I wanted my new signs to look. They both provided estimates of costs and said they could do what I wanted. I wanted to obtain one more estimate before making a decision and decided to stop in at Island Sign. Doug was very courteous and said he could do what I wanted. He then suggested a couple of other layouts for the signs that made more sense and actually included more information. Instead of just saying okay and writing up the estimate, Doug thought “outside the box” and used his expertise to make an outstanding sign. I am not a signmaker, so I appreciated Doug’s willingness to go one step beyond. Doug’s estimate was a little higher than the other two vendors, but he had already proven that he was worth it!
When I picked up the signs - they were perfect. While loading them into my car, I asked Doug if he had a suggestion for fixing an error on my car signs made by another vendor. He not only had a suggestion, but fixed the problem right on the spot!
So many vendors are bottom line oriented and they forget about customer service or thinking “outside the box”. Doug’s customer service is outstanding and I intend to recommend him to all my colleagues.
posted
Sonny, "There is nothing that cannot be made a little worse and sold a little cheaper, and those that shop by price alone are this man's lawful prey". Here is a good one for deadbeats."Cash makes no enemies, let's be friends". Peace,Good Luck. Don
-------------------- Donald Miner ABCO Wholesale Neon 1168 Red Hill Creek Dobson, NC Posts: 842 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
I sorta like the "can't get a steak at McDonalds" analogy Dusty. It didn't even cross my mind that it might be a slam. It doesn't matter how cheap it is; it can always be a little cheaper. I think it's more of a game than actual grief over losing a few measley bux.
On the same line... I've started an outline for an article for a local magazine. It'll be something along the line of "Signs are not a Commodity". If anybody wants to have some input on that, your thoughts would be appreciated.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Wouldn't that be considered a "strip steak"? And Dusty, do get back on the cold meds; Jake relates to you much better when you're impaired.
-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
Doug, those are the kinds of testimonials that prove that you will gain MUCH by being helpful and accomodating, even if it requires going a little out of your way to help a customer...
A little attitude difference, a laugh and a "Take it back where you got it and make them fix it..." like so many would give them would have made this customer feel completely different about you. Then not only would you have lost the good testimonial... of much more value, you would have lost the best form of advertising possible... WORD OF MOUTH.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Thanks Jon, I thought so too. I told her that I had 2 ideas how to deal with it. Taking it back may be cheaper, if it had ben their mistake... but I could also do it myself. She said she would be happy to have me fix it & was surprised when I started right away. The whole magnet was an edge print & her blue lettered name was missing the Realtor's legally required (RS) business. Adding a blue (RS) would have been a tight squeeze & thrown subsequent lines off center, but a matching color reverse panel with with slightly smaller white letters kept it looking good & it's border hid itself compared to a white patch on a white sign.
maybe about 20 minutes, I only charged $20 & she was happy with that.
posted
I heard this little story about Sonny's prices... hadn't check Snopes to see if it's true or not...
A woman walked into Sonny's shop the other day, and spotted the most beautiful sandblasted sign. She walked over to inspect it more closely. As she bent forward to touch the shiny gilded lettering, an unexpected little burst of flatulence escaped her. Very embarrassed, she anxiously looked around to see if Sonny had noticed. Sonny stood close by with a pleasant smile, "Good day, Madame. How may we help you today?"
Trying to maintain an air of sophistication and acting as though nothing had happened, she smiled back and asked, "Sir, what is the price of this lovely sign?"
Still smiling pleasantly, he replied, "Madame, I'm very sorry to say that if you farted just touching it, you're gonna crap when you hear the price."
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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-------------------- Ricky Jackson Signs Now 614 Russell Parkway Warner Robins, GA (478) 923-7722 signpimp50@hotmail.com
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Issac Newton Posts: 3528 | From: Warner Robins, GA | Registered: Oct 2004
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posted
We have a similar situation here in Amish Country. Everyone has the "perception" that "Amish" means quality. And most of the time it does. But there are some Amish that produce a quality that is lesser than the Amish reputation.
-------------------- Dana Blair Blair Signs Wooster, OH www.blairsigns.com
If sign makers go on strike, is there anything written on their picket signs? Posts: 835 | From: Wooster, OH, USA | Registered: Jul 1999
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
. And I have had a steak at a strip club, little tuff, but a steak non the less..
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