I doubt if very many of you have been following this story bit it's been very interesting from it's inception. Virginia Tech has built the worlds third fastest super computer using a Mac G5 cluster for a fraction of the price of any competing system. Sort of blows the "Macs are more expensive" out of the water. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/61/33780.html Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
You always come across like a believer who is afraid of losing his faith Bill. They're just computers.
By the way, go to the stores, Macs are more expensive. Might be worth buying, but no way even near the price of a good pc.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Comparing Macs to chain store computers is an insult.
Macs are like a nice handcarved redwood sign, and chain store PC clones are like craft paints on coroplast.
Quality, stability and longevity versus cheap, annoying and disposable after a year. Your pick.
Now, you can get higher end PC's too, like Dell workstations or custom purpose-built systems and spend just as much if not more than you would on a Mac, but the performance and reliability will also be on-par..
or if ya have $8,000 for a computer you can get an IBM Intellistation... or *drool* an Octane2 from SGI..
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Yes David, I confess, I am a believer.
That's not the point here. if your interested in computer develpment at all this is a pretty amazing feat. We're talking about very slightly modified off the shelf G5's networked into a supercomputer that is blowing away Crays at a fraction of the price. This baby is now ranked third fastest computer in the world! It was built by a guy who had never had a Mac and wasn't even looking at the Mac platform originally until the G5 was released. This cluster came in at a price half of similar Dell and IBM configurations.This is news even if you're not a Mac head.
Ok Bill, what gives? Just checked my email and get an online inducement from Apple.com. Don't send your evangelists over here, please.
On a more serious note, Mike is way over the top on denigrating most pcs and extolling the virtues of the Mac.
If money and compatibility were not issues, I would own some version of a Mac. OS X is the best operating system for sure. Stability is great and the Ipod is unchallenged. As far as CEOs are concerned, they sink to the same level of carnival barkerism as Microsoft et al.
So what am I saying. I and many do like the systems, just that the price and compatiblity do hinder our decisions.
Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
I can see the price being an issue for some, but not the compatibility part.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
It's funny how whenever anyone who says anything nice about Macs, they get ragged on by someone who has a (Microsoft based) PC. Why anyone would defend a system that is a magnet to every virus that comes along is odd. ...Maybe they just like to fight...and don't want to admit they spent alot of money on a problematic unit. (!)
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Or maybe the Mac users are constantly trying to justify paying a much higher price, period.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
The only thing that makes a Mac a suposingly a better computer is not it componets but its operating system. The biggest problems with x86 machines is its OS I wish Mac would release OSX for the x86 platform I would love to try that on my machine. I think both Machines are fantastic just Mac wrote a better OS then MS.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
David, I don't bash PC's in general, only the ones that can be bought in chain stores, because those machines are built for one purpose - to be cheap.
Of course now that the G5 is out, prices on G4 systems are dropping like a rock. You can get a nice G4 system now for about $700-$800 brand new, even cheaper if you get refurb'd or used.
Macs are pretty much compatible with everything these days. You don't even need to buy new software titles to replace your windows versions, just install Virtual PC for Mac and you can run the windows programs on the Mac.
**Edit**: By the way, there IS a difference in the hardware. All computers are not created equal. If I spend $2,000 on a Dell workstation or Apple G5, I WILL be getting a better machine than someone that buys the $500 HP Pavillion at their office supply store. Just keep a running log of errors, crashes, tech support calls, replaced hardware and downtime because of it, and you will see what I mean.
[ November 06, 2003, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Mike Pipes ]
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Fair enough Mike.
$700 to $800! I can't even buy it at that price because I would never hear the end of it from Bill Modzell.
[ November 06, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: David Wright ]
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Hey Dave, Maybe when I'm back home for Christmas in Walled Lake I'll drop by for a visit. Is it OK if promise not to bring any viruses with me?
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Give us a holler and stop by. Heck, bring the viruses too, I will have my Norton updated.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Mike I stand Corrected. When I was comparing PC's to Macs I was reffering more to the higher end Machines That I build for myself not the POS'S that the discount stores sell. Heck My video card alone cost more then some PCs. When I got into Computers I was trained on PCs so thats what I stuck with. I just like the versitility and of course always having to reload Wnidows twice a year. Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
William, lol I haven't had to reload windows that often (98SE on the desktop, Me on the laptop.. reinstall once a year whether it's needed or not to keep things flowing smoothly) but I know what you're saying about expensive video cards. My desktop system has an old GLINT based video card (for hardware rendering 3D stuff) which by itself cost about half of one of those IBM Intellistations I mentioned above. Of course it's obsolete now but it still works today, as do the original hard drives and RAM, which are components known for needing regular replacement.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Mike, Thats funny you said a Glint.. I finally brought myself to get rid of my old Leadtek 2500 series Card that was a glint processor.. made me sick.. The card cost around $1200 and now I get better performance from an ATI for about a quarter of that. What 3d Programs you use I use Rhino as Im only intrested in Modeling and not animation.
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
We have a PC and a Mac side by side at most workstations. I, frankly can't imagine not having both.
I would never do any serious graphics work on the PC. They're just too fidgety. You can't work for an hour or two in Photoshop only to have the system lock up when saving the file.
On the other hand, when downloading files, the PC does what it's supposed to. Just let's you save the file. And when unsophisticated customers send you Powerpoint or Work files, with PC fonts, it's very useful.
If I had to pick one It would be the Mac hands down. But for another $600, why not get a PC too?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I would never work for an hour or 2 without saving as I go, but with that said... though I have had my share of lock-ups, it has never happened when saving the file. I would never settle for a $600 PC either, so maybe thats why.
My first 5 years of computer graphics was strictly mac. Although I'd like to get another Mac, I've been without one for about 10 years. The only limitation I have really noticed is not being able to gloat with the mac guys on these posts
thats not true... I do wish I could run my Edge from Illustrator & then sell (or destroy) Omega! & if i get a mac, that will be the reason I get it.
Posted by Roy Somers (Member # 403) on :
Why Doug, Look here!! http://gspinc.com/ Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
William,
Actually glints are still the way to go for 3D stuff, except these days instead of being able to render 1 million pixels/sec, they're chugging out 400 Million pixels/sec using multiple processors and now packed with over 400MB of on-board memory.
I haven't done any heavy duty 3D stuff in a long time, but I use AutoCAD/Mechanical Desktop for technical modeling and 3D Studio MAX for modeling and animation, but I also am familiar with CATIA, Pro Engineer, SoftImage, Solidworks and a number of others. I'm most familiar with AutoCAD, I've been using it the past 14 years.
I think the next machine I get I will be making the switch to Mac.. that won't happen for a while though.. they'll probably be on OSXIII by the time I'm ready to get a new computer. Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Thanks Roy. Actually I may have worded my post wierd, but that is what I meant...
that not Mac-gloating is not the only limitation with my PC... not edging is the bigger limitation... & now that MI2 is out... well, "head for the light" as my friends say. (I'll be gloating with the best of them one of these days)
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
We are PC based. I researched with an open mind when upgrading. I found that Mac is laboring feverishly to catch up to PC in the sign production business. I find most of my peers use PC. Most with formal training prefer Mac. I personally can't see it, but then it's sort of like religeon....we can still cohabitate.
With XP Pro, almost no lock-ups. A friend of mine said that XP is as close to Mac as Windows has ever been as far as stability goes. He's right, it very stable Mostly, though, I can't stand the "come to me" attitude I get from a Mac retail store.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I have a XP machine 2.8 gig and a 1.7 gig win 98 se machine, i hardly ever reboot the win 98 SE machine, dunno why.. Got a dell lappy running win 98 SE and i've never reformated it and it runs like its new. dunno why some have so many probs with win 98SE..,,
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
speaking as someone who has NEVER BOUGHT AN OFF THE SHELF PC....and i only have ONE BRAND NAME laptop...IBM!!! i have built all on my computers since the day i bought my 1st 386DX40, was the only machine i had built. since then i have upgraded to this AMD 2100XP 256 megs 333DDR ram, ATI 64 meg video card.....etc etc...i use removable hard drive racks... and i run XP, 98 SE on 3-4 different hard drives. i never have lock ups, crashes, or just dumb stuff going on. all those machines i have upgraded from....after i got my new one set up..i sold(for little money) or gave the old machine to someone who was just starting computers...so every machine ive ever owned lasted 4-5 that i know of!!!! my last machine was 350 cryrix(not made after 94-95)is still running my sister in law has it....and has no problems with it!!!! mac people are like ..corvette people,nice to own, but still a internal combustion engine wrapped in fiberglass, there not all their cracked up to be.....
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Maybe this is a basic reply, but I hate the single click bar-of-soap mouse!
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Hey Doug, I see a glimmer of hope in your post. MI2.2 is great! Stable, fast, intuitive interface. Never have to leave Illustrator except for editing raster stuff in PhotoShop.
Get yourself a G5 and never look back,.....except for taking a look at all the other Intel processors trying to catch up!
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
The reason we originally got a Mac is because all the agencies we sold to sent us Mac files, often on Mac formatted media.
The media issue is gone now, all files come in on CD's or online.
I don't know about the app files themselves. I still think files created on the Mac are best printed from a Mac, but maybe it doesn't matter anymore either.
Fonts are still incompatible, but that's changing too with Openfonts.
The reason I'd have trouble giving up the PC and GA, is because I can't quite do everything in Illustrator. Like do a 24' sign at full size. And I keep making mistakes working to scale. Maybe you get better at it. And there are many basic sign effects that must be available in Illustrator, but I haven't found them. Like extruding a shadow.
Eliminating the sign making PC would certainly seem to help productivity.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Paul... look into Kai's Power Tools Vector Effects, an illustrator plug-in. It is no longer available, but I just got it along with 2 other KPT rastor effect software collections on eBay for about $60
Typestyler is another good addition to illustrator for sign-program type text distortion effects.
Bill, just met someone at a garage sale today bragging about their new G5. I made some idle conversation about the 3rd ranking supercomputer "built with the Mac processor at a fraction of the cost" I ended up walking away with a Wacom tablet for free because there was no more stylus
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Mostly, though, I can't stand the "come to me" attitude I get from a Mac retail store.