i'm trying to install a client's logo on their window, and part of the design is a 3/32" wide border (stripe), 30" long. i'm installing wet (RapidTac II) because i don't want any bubbles under the translucent etchmark film. my problem is that the stripe keeps bowing a little bit... its less than 1/64", but the client has eagle eyes (she's a graphic artist) and wants it dead straight. i don't have much experience with small vinyl on glass. i've tried massaging the line straight, but as soon as one part gets right, the other part is off. (and, the stripes stick better to the transfer tape than to the window, and the low tack tape wont pull the smallest letters off the backer...). i followed the rapidtac instructions (cleaned twice, applied, sqeegeed, waited 90 secs, wet the transfer tape, waited another 30 secs). blech. ...maybe i'm doing it TOO wet? ... i ordered a new roll of tape... the old one was over two years old i think (getting dry at the edges)... and here's a picture: ...and NO, i did NOT design the logo (but i DID spend an hour cleaning up the file from Quark to Illustrator... grrr)
[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: ScooterX ]
[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: ScooterX ]
[ October 31, 2001: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by John Smith (Member # 1308) on :
Apply a 1" wide stripe for all your borders. Come back after all is dry and solid, using a METAL yardstick and a new exacto blade, handcut your stripes. This may need the help of an assistant to firmly hold down one end of your yardstick or use duct tape. Using this method, you can get some pretty nice 45 degree angles for the corners !!!
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
John, this client is super-fussy. i dont think their's any way in this lifetime i could cut all the stripes exacltly 3/32" wide (less than 1/8"). and since i'm using etchmark, i cant have any cutlines at the corners, either. the cuts will show. blech.
i'm thought of applying the thing un-weeded, but i'm not sure that would really help either.
Posted by Tyler (Member # 2093) on :
I would forget trying to apply it wet. That is bad news with such thin lines of glass as well. My advice would be to put it down dry, then the lines shouldn't stray at all, as it will all be held together with one large piece of transfer tape. And without the liquid under it, it should stay where you put it the first time. With such thin lines and just copy, you shouldn't have trouble putting it down bubble-free, as long as the glass is nice and clean.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Forget the wet app. on something this Size! as..
All it does is make the problem worse.
Over cut the length by 2 inches and tack the frist part down. Pull but don't stretch the vinyl on a Stabilo line that is drawn on the Window/Panel. Aline the other end and Tap it down, Next Tap the center down and the quarter areas tap down (TAP NOT SLAP)
This way if its wrong you can lift and re-apply.
If you don't fell comfortable with this, Then buy some Automotive stripping and use it as it has a clear transfer coating that will help hold a true line for you!
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
okie dokie... i'll try it dry. (i think i'm just cranky because i've already wasted so much time on cleaning up the computer file... live and learn). thanks for the feedback.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
You already got good advise, "its too small to apply wet". I love that you use my product, but some things have to be applied dry !
Roger
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
I ran into this problem with "etchmark" once.
Customer wanted a dozen 1 foot x 4 ft glass panels above display shelving in a gift shop. She wanted fully 'frosted" glass except for 3/4" border around the edges with 4" Murray Hill Bold lettering with an 1/8th" outline drop shadow cut in reverse plus "scrolls" in reverse too.
The first dry application attempt was a failure, so I tried wet. Same problem with the app tape lifting the fine lines.
Solution ... applied "wet" then left to dry overnight before trying to remove app tape. Then saturate the tape with water to soften the paper and glue. Squeegee down hard again and peel off the app tape by rolling it back on itself flat on the glass. This inital drying process was speeded up on the other panels by careful use of a heat gun.
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
this is a $69 job that's gonna haunt me... i guess its appropriate for a halloween job.
i tried the dry app and the customer doesnt' like the finish. (little micro-bubbles that are too small to pop). i'm hoping it will even out after a day or two. if not, maybe i'll try the wet-and-leave-it approach.
i learn from my mistakes... so i must be brilliant by now.. right?
Posted by timi NC (Member # 576) on :
I had a problem a few years back with the tiny bubbles you were talking about in the etchmark from a dry application. It frustrated me so bad I left telling the client that I would be back the next day to fix them,...but the next day when I returned they had dissapeared all on their own. Seems the vinyl had solved the problem all by itself by sitting overnite. I don't know if it was a fluke or it is an inherent problem with etchmark vinyl but I would try letting it sit tight for a couple of days to see if they go away myself.
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Seems to me that you are getting the (BUTT END OF A STICK!) For a $69.00 dollar job you sould tell Her to go to a $20.00 shop! She is walking all over you on this project!
Stand your ground and ask to see her final outcome of laying the (3/32") vinyl down!!!!
Never let the customer outsmart you in the Application or Design!......You will alway be in their control because of it!
Or better yet (Give it up as a lost cause and walk away!)
Still bigger and better fish to fry in the open Sea.
Posted by pcbytes (Member # 1444) on :
I am new to this, but can you apply the whole peice of vinyl NOT weeded! and then let it dry, and then weed it right on the glass without disturbing the thin lines. Just a thought it should be easy to weed fresh vinyl off of glass?
Maybe add some extra cut lines for easier weeding also!
Posted by ScooterX (Member # 2023) on :
I thought about applying it all un-weeded, but i was afraid that the tiny lines would still peel up with the application tape and just leave me with weeds. or, the weed area would bond, leaving me with crabgrass. or some other nightmare.
i tried walking away from the job three times ("look, i obviously can't please you... i'll just peel this off, refund your deposit and you can find somebody else...") but she pleaded with me to "just try again". the real kicker is that their shop is right across the street from mine, so i really didn't want somebody else doing their sign. its too handy to be able to point across the street when people want to see what i've done.
i'll go check the thing tomorrow and see if it fixed itself. maybe a brick through the window will fix it... can't ever find a hooligan when you need one.
Posted by Sharon Bigler (Member # 2203) on :
Ever notice how when a job turns sh*tty right at the beginning, it just gets sh*ttier. Scooter, I'll send a prayer up for you on this one and good luck to you. This is the kind of stuff that makes me hate vinyl!!
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Scooter..Timi gave you good advice.. MOST "tiny" bubbles will disappear with a day or two.
And YES..It is the little jobs that bite ya in the butt! I think it has something to do with some guy named Murphy who compiled a whole bunch of laws!
Posted by pcbytes (Member # 1444) on :
I have one more idea cut the vinyl and then cover it completely with clear vinyl, one large piece. Then install the whole thing in one piece wet or dry. the best part is you can take your time and cover it with clear vinyl back in your shop without any pressure.
I saw some really fine vinyl work that I thought would never stick for any length of time but it was covered with clear vinyl and it looks like a good trick.
