The Letterville BullBoard: Customer layouts on their home computers

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Posted by Pam Eddy (Member # 1858) on :

What do you do with the customer who designs their own vehicle lettering on a home computer and then get mad because you cannot use it?

I know this has been discussed before, but I need a pep talk. I seems like everyone lately is trying to cut corners and be their own designer. How do you explain to them it doesn't work, our software is not compatible?

I'm not very tactful and don't know the computer terminology to explain this. The last guy kept talking about "pixels" I have no idea what point he was trying to make.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance,

Pam

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Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :

Pam...If he is talking about "pixels" then he is giving you a bitmap image. If you want to cut the image in vinyl then either HE or YOU have to convert that bitmap image into a vector format. And that probably involves more work than he did in finding/creating/copying/editing the bitmap image in the first place.

Just tell him to provide you with a vector (lines to define the shapes rather than pixels) file and you will cut it. If he can't do that tell him you will convert it for a price.

I have people who, occasionally, will bring me bitmap file and ask me to "cut" it. I just tell them that it can't be done. 90% of the time they believe me but sometimes I have to show them. I just open the bitmap in Corel or a graphics viewing program and zoom in on the image until it is just a bunch of little squares (pixels). Then I open a vector file and let them see it in wireframe view and they immediatly get the picture. At that point they realize I know more about this sort of thing than they do and then just say "go ahead and do what you have to do". Then I charge them for the conversion.

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Dave Grundy
AKA "applicator" on mIRC
"stickin' sticky stuff to valuable vessels and vehicles!"
in Granton, Ontario, Canada
1-519-225-2634
dave.grundy@quadro.net
www.quadro.net/~shirley

[This message has been edited by Dave Grundy (edited March 14, 2001).]

Posted by Tony McDonald (Member # 1158) on :

Pam,
Ditto to what Dave said. Also depending on what program they used it's possible that a file may be used. For instance a lot of the graphics in "Print Artist" can be copied and pasted in corel draw and can then be cut. I've got a couple cheapy programs at home just for this purpose. I think you can get Print Artist for about $20.

Hope this helps...

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When good things happen...that must be a sign!!
Tony McDonald
DBA-Ace Graphics & Printing
P.O. Box 91
Camdenton, MO. USA
(573) 346-6696
<daddyo@advertisnet.com>
<tony@brownbeverage.com>

Posted by Larry Elliott (Member # 263) on :

Pam,
First try to be tactful and explain that most of the clipart that comes with computer programs is not intended for 'commercial use' it is only supposed to be used for 'personal' projects (this is true, if you read the fine print in the software agreement).

Next, if the first doesn't work, tell them their file format is not compatible with your equipment and that you would be glad to take their 'idea' and rework it into a layout that would better fit the space.

And, if that doesn't work, tell 'em to take their crappy little piece of amateur 'art', bend over and insert it and see if they can read it!

If they are not responsive to the first two they probably wont understand the jest of the last one.

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Larry

Elliott Design
McLemoresville, Tn.

If you can't find the time to do it right,
where gonna find the time to do it over?

Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :

Pam,

If you have some time, make a "homemade" layout on your computer the way a customer would do and then make a sign from that layout, a horrible one.

Then make the same sign the right way.
Use a 12" x 18" coroplast sign blank, with the right way letterd on 1 side and the wrong way lettered on the other side.

The next time a customer comes in with his own layout, show him the results of "trying to do it yourself signs" and that it will cost twice as much due to the added problems you have to go through to make the sign from his file.

We tell most customers that unless they have the same equipment we have, they just pretty much wasted their time, and will spend more money than the need to for an inferior product.

It is true, some customers have a version of Corel Draw and can make a fairly decent layout, but those are the few exceptions.
We will suggest some layout tweeking to make it right if needed.

You were mentioning pixels, which may or may not be a digital print job he has in mind.
Pixels are those little squares that when placed together properly make a picture, or a font, or anything printed on a sheet of printer paper.

When you place that artwork in the scanner and try to cut it on the plotter, the edges of the lettering are all jagged instead of nice and perfectly smooth.

If the guy has in mind a digital print, the same holds true, the lettering looks terrible, or if it is a picture, then it looks fuzzy and screwed up, not crystal clear like a photograph.

hope this helps

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Draper The Signmaker
Bloomington Illinois USA
Be Sure to Check Out My Next Article On "Sign Shop Photography" in the March Issue of Sign Builder Illustrated!
309-828-7110
drapersigns@hotmail.com Draper_Dave on mIRC chat

Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :

double post...I hate when that happens!
If it happens to you (a duplicated post) just go to edit and delete the message.

[This message has been edited by Dave Draper (edited March 14, 2001).]

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

No WAY!! I have it on good authority that Dave just likes to see his name as often as possible!

:^)

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St.Marie Graphics
& Makin' Tracks Sound Studio
Kalispell, Montana
stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com
800 735-8026
We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)

Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :

As mentioned above some of the clipart images, like WMF (Windows Metafiles), in the desktop publishing programs are useable.But text which is cut and pasted from Print Artist to Sign Wizard ends up with "jaggety" curves and broken loops. Vectorized bitmaps look even worse.

You could show them this in a couple of minutes if you have one of those programs already loaded.

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Wayne Webb
Webb Sign Studio
creators of "woodesigns"
"autograph your work with excellence"
webbsignstudio@digitalexp.com

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

I just recieved an eps. file from a "design
group" assuming I could open it up with my Gerber Graphix Advantage. It only shows a tiny dot in the middle of the page, such as a period. When I point and select, it disappears.
Are there different types of eps. files to convert?
I also find that 99 percent of "artwork" sent has to be cleaned up. I automatically tell them there is a min. of $35 to do that.
If they are curious, I tell them it is usually divided into simple, moderate, and complex artwork, and prices are determined after I have seen the design. Usually, I don't want to be bothered with answering the door and ask them to put it in the mail if they don't have a jpeg. and have a little time.

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :

This seems to be happening to me more often. I try to explain to them I have to draw it all over again anyway so why not just tell me what style you like or give me a rough sketch or a picture of a similar type of sign you liked and let me do my job and you go do what you do best. They don't always listen, then I have to decide if I should refer them to someone else. I have quality standards, but its not easy to tactfully explain to someone that their design sucks.
I try not to waste too much time with them.

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Chuck Peterson Graphics
1860 Playa Riviera Dr.
Cardiff-by-the-Sea, Calif. 92007

Posted by Diane Crowther (Member # 120) on :

Deb, there are different kinds of EPS and I never got the hang of it (the differences that is), so we don't use it. See if they can sent you an AI (Adobe Illustrator) file. Version 1.1 is usually infallable, unless there are fancy colour schemes, graduated fills, etc. For those you'll have to use a higher version, at least 5.5. GA should open those fine. We do it here all the time because a lot of our design is done on our MACs then exported to GA for printout on the Edge.

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Diane Crowther, Metaline Graphics Ltd., Nova Scotia, Canada, ID #285

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

Thanks, Diane,

It is an ai. eps. and I have a Gerber 6.2.
Your info answered my question as much as I needed. At least, I reminded them to send the jpeg (again). I now see with the colors, many colors and some shading!
Have a great day, Deb

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by Pete Kouchis (Member # 343) on :

I think I saw this quote on this BB just recently. Forgive me for forgetting whose pearl of wisdom this is, but it's great!

When the customer brings in their own artwork and asks that you just "polish it a little", look sincerely into their eyes and say, "Sorry, you just can't polish a turd!"

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Pete Kouchis
Say it with SIGNS, Inc.
Orland Park, IL, USA
Phone: (708)460-3001
Fax: (708)460-3006

"If you haven't got time to do it right, when you gonna find time to do it over?"

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

i got PRINT ARTIST, have use it since it was called INSTANT ARTIST. if peopele wana do the design work i tell either get corel 7,8,9,10 for $100-300 or get PRINT ARTIST for $39.95...what ever they do in PA, i can then open it from a disk(then see if our fonts are the same) but the graphic can be COPIED to clipboard, then pasted into corel, then it is a vector...some dont work some do...the nice thing about print artist is you take any graphic, print it in coloing book mode scan that print and volla! you got a great vector...might have to delete a few lines ...but they work good..i used PA make a pattern on a wide carriage printer ythat i have, and then taped it together finished size was 36" tall x 30 feet long..not bad for a $30 program..

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

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