The Letterville BullBoard: uhhh yeah the other guy said he'd paint my D/F 8x24 billboard for $500...

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Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

Man dont'cha just get SICK of IT? there is a local guy...actually about 25 miles down the road that just burns me up!!!

We used to work for the same company, back ten years ago, and now we are both out on our own....anyway, he does exclusively billboards, and I do very little of that...I tried to get him to subcontract for me on a job a few years back, and he STOLE the customer right out from under me....undercutting his quote to me to do it!!!

Now, a good friend of mine and long time customer is wanting his d/f 8x24 billboard that I originally painted redone, and I quoted it at around 2000.00.

Come to find out, the "billboard guy" ran over and quoted it too, asking--you guessed it, 500 bucks. I would not even prep my brushes and set up the scaffold for 500.00!!

It ain't about getting out bid...it is about a dirty lowballer that does it just to be ugly.

I dunno....have you guys ever been "burned" by a "brother" o' the brush??

Sigh***

Barry

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Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

Posted by Scott Moyer (Member # 1433) on :

Hate to burst your bubble, but the billboard business is dead, your price was way too high your compeitors was right on the mark, any self respecting billboard painter can do a 8x24 in less than one day straight copy,You also can buy digitaly printed billboards with any copy as many photos that you want for 1.25 per sq ft plus
$ 250.00 to install, maybe you shouldn't paint boards any how.

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Scott Moyer
Promised Land Pennsylvania
570-595-0310

Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

gee thanks...

but like I said....it is NOT ABOUT BEING OUTBID....it is about repeated underhand tactics on the part of this guy.....

and I disagree about the price too....I think that depends on yer market...I get better than 250 for a plain 4x8...why would I want to do a billboard FOUR TIMES THAT SIZE for the same money......

sheesh.

oh, and BTW, this board is FARRR from "straight copy" it is a multi color gradient shade monster. At least 6 colors plus the fades...no lie, plus a good bit of detail.
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Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

[This message has been edited by Tasmus (edited March 13, 2001).]

Posted by John Novicki (Member # 955) on :

Barry,

I don't know if I can say I've been burned by a fellow signmaker, but I lose bids all the time. As a matter of fact, the first thing that goes through my mind when I "win" a bid is that I must have made a mistake. I just don't take losing work to a competitor personally, because I know I have done work for too low of a price before...not on purpose, just screwed up.

At a $1500 difference on a $2000 sign, I sure wouldn't lose any sleep over it. Let this person do all the signs he or she can for that rate. I have alot of friends in one sales arena or another, and they all say the same things about customers who talk price, "If their lips are moving, they're lying." Keep the door open to the customer, they may be back.

John

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John Novicki
Sign Painter
Minot, ME

Posted by Scott Moyer (Member # 1433) on :

I' m sorry I re read your post and it's a double sided bill board, It should be around $1500.00 but dont forget about those digitaly printed psa's are going for $1.25 per sq. If he would of got $1200.00 to $ 1500.00 that might have not been so irratating again I'm sorry for not reading closer.

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Scott Moyer
Promised Land Pennsylvania
570-595-0310

Posted by Adrienne Pereira (Member # 1046) on :

Looks to me like the lo-baller burned himself!!!

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Adrienne Morgan
Splash Signs
www.splashsigns.com
"Rainkatt'on chat

Benicia, CA
707-550-4553
adrienne@splashsigns.com

Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :

Barry,

This is one where I would laugh and let it go. Sometimes the best thing you can do for this guy and the client is to let them have each other.

I've learned that its just not worth the extra ulcer and heartache. They guy isn't going to make a dime at that price.

I'd be interested to know if you did a cost breakdown of what it would take in materials and time. I bet the guy ends up losing money big-time.

Some people just enjoy working for less than minimum wage.

------------------
Warning: A well designed sign may cause fatigue due to increased business.
http://members.tripod.com/taylor_graphics
walldog@nc.rr.com

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

scott....i hate to inform ya...if youre gona PAINT anything..billboard, wall, window...something that you dont have to paint a background on 1st....i get $4.00 a sq.ft. or i dont wet my brushes.. dont care what the pay for the painted stretch faces..i had the same stuff here at the race track last yr...really P.O.ed me guy from mobile(50 mile drive)come over here and did the 12'x 23' race track billboards(6 total) for $250 each and i quoted em at $1000 each but if i got do to all the paint work it was $800 and they provided a lift. well new managenment this yr...and iam back in there...with MY prices, after this new manager seen the type of work they got for $250.00 he told me that guy will not be back here.......so if your paintin for $1.25 sq. ft. ill call ya when i get these billboards....hehehehehehehehe

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

you go OP!!

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Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

Posted by Aladd (Member # 1996) on :

Me being around (in business) a long time, if a customer comes in and tells me he's checking for the lowest price or wants me to bid I politely tell him I'm by no means cheap and will in all likely hood be the most expensive and I do not bid. I also tell them if their shopping their at the wrong place I don't compete at the price game. I deal with people who want top quality not bottom basement prices and want only me to do their signs. And I refer them to a quickie sticky shop. I have been around so long I can get away with this, I don't mean to sound cocky it's just the way I am and it works for me. Customers believe in you if they can tell you believe in yourself and after they talk to my cocky ass they can tell I certainly believe in myself. Please don't take this the wrong way and think, I think I'm all that it's just a selling method that works for me and works well.

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Alan Ladd
Atlanta,Ga

Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :

Tasmus, this guy is gonna feel so bad for bidding that low. When he starts the job, and eventually finishes it, he'll be kicking himself in the butt for doing it. 500 is what I get for a nice 4x8. How in the world can he do a 8x24 for that and make money. He aint. He's just doing it to be a lowballer. Keep the faith Tas.....

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John Deaton III
Deaton Design
109 N. Cumberland Ave.,Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-573-9101

john@deatondesigns.com
www.deatondesigns.com

Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

again...I have no prob with the customer--HE is a FRIEND guys....he was just in here 5 minutes ago helping the office manager with quickbooks--FREE. They do that stuff all the time....we have discussed it--and we both agree the painter is an idiot--no sense in my friend being one to and not taking the deal.

the guy is a capable painter and will do a good job--so I am in that respect glad that my buddy is making out. But as for the sign guy...well to other people in the area, his GIVING it away like that just makes ME look bad.

Barry

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Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

John-- in reality he is doing the equivalent of an EIGHT BY FORTY EIGHT for 500.00.

And he has done this for YEARS...this like the third time he has tried to deliberately burn me down on a bid. He lowballs EVERY TIME we bid against each other.

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Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :

Barry, no matter what price your competitor gives, believe me it isn't because he's trying to hurt you. He may be stupid, desperate, new to business, but I'll bet nowhere in his thinking is it how to lowball or hurt Barry.
This is not worth worrying about unless it becomes a general pattern in your bidding.

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Wright Signs
Wyandotte, Michigan
Since 1978
http://www.wrightsigns.bigstep.com

Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

David--reference my post above....this is not an isolated incident, it is a pattern of behaviour!

But it is all cool....once I bid $200.00 to do a pair of 4x6 store windows, and I knew I was too cheap when I quoted it...he underbid me then too! Only he can't DO that kind of stuff, and it took him THIRTEEN hours to paint those two windows...RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM MY SHOP....It was over a two day period, with him having to drive 25 miles one way......I kept track of the time for him and called it out to him from across the street every other hour..
heheh

Barry

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Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

Posted by Jerry Mathel (Member # 526) on :

We have one of those too. Doesn't matter what the price is, he'll underbid it. We really had to laugh at him one time when he had given someone a really lowball price and got the go-ahead and a deposit. He started the job, just did some scraping and priming and then let it set for about two months. He must have forgotten what he bid the job for, cause when he finally came back and finished the job, he underbid his own price. He seldom will give anyone a written bid and if he does he's careful not to include a completion date.

The other painters in town have all pretty much come to the conclusion that he doesn't want all the business in town, he just doesn't want any one else to have any.

He has at least 15 or 20 jobs around town that he has started and are now just setting there waiting to be finished if he ever gets around to them.

I also notice that when he writes a receipt it is on a single sheet with no copy for himself. Eveyone figured he'd be out of business in a couple of months but he's operated here like that for over 25 years. He finally got a contractor's license after being fined 3 times.

There is just no way you can deal with someone like that, except to just let them go, and not lose any sleep over it. Every now and then, I get a customer that I suspect deserves someone like that, and I give them his name.

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Jerry Mathel
Jerry Mathel Signs
Grants Pass, Oregon
signs@grantspass.com

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

When they're running around the tree in front of you, just stop and he'll run right into your derierre. (did I spell that right?)
While someone like that is obviously trying to compete with you instead of learn the fine qualities in life, the signal is clear.
People that usually try to outdo everyone else, usually are very sad and lonely people inside! Plus, being a pain in the royal, you- know. What do you do that he can't do?? All that time, while his body is wearing out for no cause, you can be visiting other places and developing new bonds with people that really appreciate you. Even if the time and $ aren't there for you to visit, you can find your specialty and make samples. Don't look back, just play leap frog and jump over this hurdle! I know it burns;it burns me too, it is a painful but necessary step in becoming better and survival. Maybe when the time comes everyone else will vote themselves off the island and he will be left there all by himself! Wouldn't that be a new twist???????????
I have a lot of wonderful customers, but I don't think anyone of us, can honestly say that this isn't happening to them.
Thank you for posting something that isn't "popular"! shows you got guts!

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :

Hey Barry....would your competritor's name be Lenny?

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
ICQ # 330407
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Brushasaurus on Chat

Gladly supporting this BB !

Posted by Pierre St.Marie (Member # 1462) on :

Geez...........I was just about to ask if it was "Si"!!

:^)

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St.Marie Graphics
& Makin' Tracks Sound Studio
Kalispell, Montana
stmariegraphics@centurytel.net http://www.stmariegraphics.com
800 735-8026
We're chiseling every day of the week! :^)

Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :

No way...Pierre! I don't werk cheep! after 34 years, I don't need to "practice"!!!

If the want cheap...then find a cheap shop!
I tell them "remember...this is how I make my living, it's not a hobby!" If they still don't uinderstand...welllll....I tend to get a bit more colorful in my language!

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Si Allen #562
La Mirada, CA. USA
(714) 521-4810
ICQ # 330407
"SignPainters do It with Longer Strokes!"

Brushasaurus on Chat

Gladly supporting this BB !

Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :

Tasmus,

I know it burns you up but what are you worrying about, this guy is obviously an idiot and will eventially burn out. If your friend was really a friend you could have some fun with this one. Like your friend could tell him he actually bid too high, that you were bidding $400.00, with terms. then if this guy was as predictable as he seems to be he'd be painting the board for 300.00 or maybe 250.00 then waiting 30 days for his money

Then I'd get a lawn chair and a cooler, and sit and watch this poor bastard work for free.

Or maybe your friend could tell all his billboard friends he got his billboard painted for 500.00 both sides. That would shurely crush this guys billboard business.
Or at least he'd think twice before he bid like a moron.

Sometimes it's not worth it to turn the other cheeck. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire.

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Bob Rochon
Creative Signworks
Millbury, MA
bob@creativesignworks.com

"Some people's kids"

Posted by Larry Elliott (Member # 263) on :

Tasmus,
There will always be someone like that in any type business, I know they're a pain and can sometimes make us look bad in the eyes of a few customers but most business people understand 'you get what you pay for' or they could'nt stay in business. If something sounds TOO good, there is always some hidden reason for it.
We have one of those 'low-ball, no-balls buttheads' around here, he has underbid every shop around just to keep one of us from getting the job. He'll weasel the customer into saying how much someone else has bid then he'll cut it as much as half and tell the customer how much 'we' were overcharging.
I understand where you're coming from, you can't make friends with them and talk serious about business because they are too stubborn and greedy, idiots or maybe they're just natural a-holes that practice their heridity.
The way I see it, if you have enough regular clients to keep you in plenty of profitable work then 'old low-ball' can stay bogged down working for nothing. I wonder if they ever realize they are really hurting no one but themselves by leaving all that money on the table?

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Larry

Elliott Design
McLemoresville, Tn.

If you can't find the time to do it right,
where gonna find the time to do it over?

Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :

great point Larry! I might add that I am not pissed or angry about this....just MILDLY preturbed.

It is sad/frustrating/funny though how some people cut themselves off at the waist trying to cut others off at the knees...

hohummm

B

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Master's Touch Signs & Screenprinting
Clinton AR
5017456246
ICQ 17430008
"Imagine the Possibilities..."

Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :

I loved Bob's suggestion. See if you can run this nitwit's price right into the dirt. What have you got to lose?

The whole thing would be funny if it wasn't so sad, and if it wasn't so common in the trade. Proof, again, that the two most abundant things in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.

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"A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle

When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. - Raoul Duke (Hunter S. Thompson)

Cam
Finest Kind Signs
256 S. Broad St.
Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379
"Award winning Signs since 1988"

Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :

When a customer calls and tells me they got it for dirt cheap, I sometimes come back and say, "Hey, could I have their name? I can give them a really great opportunity working for me!"

Then if they don't answer,
I surmise one of these reasons is true:
*didn't have the low price in the first place
*denied the cheaper signpainter a good job
*wanted to hire them for themselves, but seeing the customer is in another business, it wouldn't make sense to be subcontracting signs
*told the signpainter and the signpainter would forego good money just to spite you.

(I never hear from them again when I give them that comeback.)
For the most part, we spend time and effort in estimates, and then find out the job isn't ours. I don't always know but have to plan a time allotment for estimates. I also sometimes offer them a deal on the "end" of the job, if I feel like competing. I do see how someone that is estimating all month with no bites would get irritated too!

There are many more jobs and fish in the sea, just have to get longer and stronger poles!
In the meantime, get your lawnchair, a cooler, and a couple friends for a review on another signperson's style!

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Deb
Creative Signs

Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :

I've known a number of bill board painters, even good friends with one til he burned me in another way. They , at least in this area, seem to have always worked really cheap. With the business, as Scott pointed out, being dead, it's probably worse. I used to do a lot of work at the local motorsports complex and would always be butting heads price wise with a couple of these guys. Neither one liked doing small stuff ( 4x8's ) so I got all that work. The track changed hands and I haven't done anything there in ten years but the last year I was working there the promotor asked me why I charged more for a repaint on the little signs than the BB guys were getting. I believe I was getting $250 for a basic repaint white simple copy. Logo's were $350. These guys were doing the BB's which were full size 12x48's and up in the air on single poles just like out on the highway, for $200.
I told him I thought he need to rephrase the question to why were they doing those big signs for less

One of those guys now has a plotter and does a lot of trucks like I do..........needless to say he's a lot cheaper...................and the beat goes on

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George Perkins
Millington,TN.
goatwell@ionictech.com

"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"

http://goatwell.tripod.com

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

we gotem everywhere.....here its the military retirees...got extra money...nothin to do so they buy a plotter and computer..now they is a sign maker....they will come and they will go....equipment will get cheaper.....but real talent....is hard to find among these idiots....i like forest gumps sayin..."stupid is, as stupid does" pretty well says it all.....

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :

i myself grew up in the ranks of billboard painters.

that is where i learned to make paint "flow"
i worked many years for an "outdoor advertising company"

don't put us in the negative category!

otherwise i will have to start saying bad things about "bad ass pinstripers" and old vegetarians passing gas!!!!

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Mark Fair

Mark Fair Signs
http://www.markfair.com

Home of "Sign of the Month
http://www.markfair.com/signomonth.html

2162 Mt. Meigs Road
Montgomery, Alabama 36107
334-262-4449

mark@markfair.com

"Mark Fair is a Proud Contributor to The Letterhead Site!"

Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :

Hey OP- I'm a military retiree with a plotter! Did you just call me an idiot?? Aren't you a registered Florida voter??

LOL!

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Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works.
"B0LT" on the chat room thing.
209 Oak Drive
Sturgis SD 57785
sbarba2616@dtgnet.com
605-720-7667

Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :

yep i am but i dont live in miami-dade....hahahahahahahahahah..you werent included....these are NAVY...next thing to a jar-head....boy iam i gona start somthing....

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joe pribish-A SIGN MINT
2811 longleaf Dr.
pensacola, fl 32526
850-944-5060
BEWARE THE TRUTH.....YOU MAY NOT LIKE WHAT YOU FIND

Posted by Steve Eisenreich (Member # 1444) on :

OP So what should old retired military people with an interest in starting a new career and business do? What where you born with a paintbrush in your hand?

I think anyone that has the right attitude and desire to do something can and will succeed so just because you have some experience it dose not mean you should call all retired military members idiots. Or anyone that tries to make his or her life better. What are you the only one in the world that should put food on the table!

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Steve Eisenreich
PC Bytes
Cold Lake, Alberta
pcbytes@telusplanet.net

Posted by Steve Barba (Member # 431) on :

YOU GO OP!

ROFL

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Steve Barba is the proud owner, president, & sole employee of Sturgis Sign Works.
"B0LT" on the chat room thing.
209 Oak Drive
Sturgis SD 57785
sbarba2616@dtgnet.com
605-720-7667

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