well... the project of the year for me is moving right along. I've extended the second floor on the new shop, except a 4x8 opening I will forklift my compressor and 20HP vacuum pump through. The walls and 1st floor ceiling have been insulated, (for sound proofing)sheeted & painted, and my new 100 amp panel box has been installed. The 5x10 Multicam is 1 week away from shipping & my equipment lease is secured with my bank to reimburse my my 50% dep. and send Multicam the 2nd 50% this week.
The 7.5 HP, 80 gal compressor arrives next week, and I should have my electrician back about that time to finish the surface mounted conduit running outlets & equipment disconnect boxes at the required locations.
The dust collection system is the last of the larger pieces of the puzzel, and it's time I made a decision on that. Everything else is pretty high quality stuff, so I don't plan to skimp here, but I don't really know what is enough, and what is overkill.
I'm looking at a few 1.5HP units, ranging between 1000 and 1300 CFM. I have an opportunity to pick up a JET 1100 unit right across town that is supposedly "new, never used" and "partially assembled & complete with all original parts, but no box" He also has some 4" pipe & fittings included, for $450. So far my research tells me the unit is only worth about $350, although freight costs are usually a factor for me.
I would consider offering him less if it is a suitable machine with enough power for my needs.
Can some of you other CNC guys give me some feedback or tell me what you are using?
Thanks in advance!
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Doug, Laugh if you want but I picked up a Harbor freight Vacuum system 8 years ago when I bough the Shopbot and the thing still works fantastic.
Also check the shipping.. They Shipped my break from CA for $11.
Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
I use a 6.5hp shop vac. Has worked great for the 7 years we have been using the router. Been thru 3 of them though.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
thanks bill... 2HP, and less money. Can't argue with that. I appreciate the information.
They don't want to give actual cost or transit time for shipments to Hawaii, on the web, or the regular customer service phone call I made, but I got a corporate office phone number to try.
A sheet metal brake? $11 from California to Colorado? That's amazing... no wonder they have the word freight in their name... they mist be a freight company that happens to have tools to help them sell more freight (and to subsidize the freight department, at those prices)
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
We have a similar vacuum for our router. While it does a fair job in removing the dust from the router it also distributes it nicely in the adjacent room where the vacuum is located. The bag for the vacuum is simply too porus and the fine dust goes right through it. I haven't used my vacuum in 6 months as its much easier to deal with the dust in the shop than where the vacuum is located. It pretty much stays on the table for the most part.
I'll be scrapping the old system soon and replacing it with a better system. I hear via my research that a cyclone style vacuum with a steel 45 gallon drum on the bottom is much more efficient for this type of thing. It does cost more but then again of it works better it will be well worth the cost.
I know you well enough to know you are a clean freak... so buy once and get a proper system the first go around.
-grampa dan
[ June 02, 2008, 03:26 PM: Message edited by: Dan Sawatzky ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Thanks Dan! You're right about that, so that is a good point, I've built a whole seperate shop to be messy in... but I still think I will want to be in control of the mess... because I'm a bit of a control freak too... I'll look into cyclone style systems now. (do you have a manufacturer name and model to reccommend?)
Posted by William Holohan (Member # 2514) on :
Doug, You may want to wrap all the pvc vacuum pipes with bare copper grounding wire in a spiral like manner with the coils about 5 inches apart.(14G) is fine. Make a good wire to metal ground to the metal router frame and another to a really good earth ground. The shop that I worked at had a very good vacuum system for the cutting head but suffered from a constant problem with static (I assumed this was caused by yhr dry air rushing through the piping, causing the ultra fine dust to cling to the frame, gantry, walls etc. I wrapped all the pvc vacuum piping as noted and this reduced that problem by about 90%. Didn't solve it, but the the cnc and the rest of the room needed far less attention and then not as often. PS: The OSHA guy tore into us pretty good for not having the proper filtered respirators on when working in the room. Cant remember what the cartridge numbers were, but reading the lables at the hardware store should tell you. There is one a cartridge that is good for hdu and glued lumber.
[ June 02, 2008, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: William Holohan ]
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Yes what Bill Said We Ran a copper wire up the side and connected to the florescent light for a ground Save many Static shocks to the groin area.
Also you can get a staged top for a steel trash can that all the heavy dust and particles will drop there instead through your blower. and they also make 1 micron bags along with a filter inserts if you really want to eliminate the dust..
I personally don't really care about the dust as our router is in a whole different building along with all the wood working tools so when it gets messy put on on a mask and the trusty leaf blower and blow it out.
One oops though.. Forgot one day that I fresh paint in the Paint booth and we blew out the room and the wind carried to the other side of the complex where we had the filters out for cleaning and my vents carried into the booth.. Nice textured paint.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Thanks William. So far my understanding has been to run the copper inside the hose, without any spirals, to prevent a static electric fire. Are you saying you do this to do a better job of removing dust?
Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Doug,
Here are a couple of consieration.
First let me say we have two vacuum pickups, neither are what I really need or want. The first one is a 3HP Jet (Single Bag) which sets a few feet away from the CNC. The other is a 7.5HP Jet double bagger. Both of these are, as Dan says, capable to destribute dust everywhere. The micron bags emit plenty of dangerious dust.
Both units are loud! I despise loud.
A cyclone dust collection is the better choice. If you look around at commercial woodworking shops, that's what they have. They are quieter and cleaner too.
Second point is; If you are doing lot of deep 3D work, a vac pickup will be less effective.
Also, you might need a remote on off switch for the vac.
Joe
Posted by Dennis Raap (Member # 3632) on :
Doug, I know this sounds cheap when you spend so much on router ..... but a good high powered shop vac works great, run a filter and a bag it catches almost all the particles going through the vac. Some shop vacs don't work with a bag, you need the bag or the filter will plug up fast. The bags are an extra expense but so is a big vacuum system. If I work the router hard on HDU or something that makes a lot of dust or chips I have to change the bag twice a day. Posted by Joe Crumley (Member # 2307) on :
Dennis,
Aren's those bags about $10. each?
Joe
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Doug, the place I bought our router from had a double-bag unit like the one pictured- and a 3 micron bag on top. You can get a different top filter like a car airfilter zig-zag paper cartridge, though they're pricey.
They've been using it for six years with no issues. When they bought it, it had no extractor unit. I picked up one like that pictured- a 2hp trade standard one for $280, reduced from $380, available locally. I was going to place the vac unit outside, anyway.
I'm still rearranging space in the shed for the router- then we have to level the bed and then laser level the rails, then put the gantry on- it'll be a week or so before we'll be up to running it!
The 7.5 hp vac bed motor I won't be using in a hurry, just yet.
Posted by Dennis Raap (Member # 3632) on :
Joe,
The bags are about $25 for three. Most times I only go through one bag every week or two, just depends what I am routing. If I was doing a lot of heavy duty chip or dust work like deep cuts in HDU I would probably do something different. Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
We do mostly heavy three dimensional work in our shop and have to set our vacuum pickup fairly high to clear the tool holders and not bump into the work we are routing. We are route a lot of 2" material to its full depth with steep sides on the cuts. The bit is sticking out as far as we can muster, especially for the rough cut where we hog the material out. We've found the bigger waste chips tend to fly about while the vacuum still grabs all the fine dust - the stuff I most want to get rid of. But to do this you need a powerful vacuum.
In any case our next shipment will be HDU will be the new Precision Board. From the work we did at the ISA show with the new material its obvious there will be a LOT less dust as it tends to chip out rather than simply turn to dust like the old formula. That alone should make for a lot less dust... and a cleaner shop at the same time.
-grampa dan
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I've done a little research on cyclone units & one I've been directed to is the Aireworks HD series I think it's about $2K, and is a 3HP, 1200 CFM unit. (the website shows the HD series as a 2HP, 800 CFM unit, but there is a 3/1200 also)
The FX units can be 3 or 4 times more expensive, but apparently a lot of them are sold to CNC owners because they have the power to collect from additional machines. I think that is beyond my needs though, even taking future growth into consideration.
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
I bought a GENERAL INTERNATIONAL 2HP 110v slightly used for $150. It's great! Very quiet.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
We have a Woodtek 1200 cfm unit from Woodworkers Supply that has worked flawlessly for years. Mine is a 4 bag, 3 port unit. You want to go with a minimum 4" hose and pipe to really collect the dust.
Most collectors are really chip collectors unless they have 1 micron or less felt bags or cartridges. Felt bags are cheap but need to be cleaned often, a real pain.
I did a ton of research and found these cartridges which were much better built than the ones that come on some collectors, easier to clean,(just shoot compressed air from the outside) and much cheaper. They will work on almost all collectors. These cartridges really cut the dust in a major way. http://www.wynnenv.com/cartridge_filters.htm
Really look through this web site. There are great links and a ton of information on there.
We use the Long Ranger remote starter for the dust collector.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Thanks John and Dave. I remembered from my compressor post that you had mentioned a good lead on cartridges Dave, so I planned to make sure I checked with you. I'll look over that site! (and the Woodworkers Supply site)
Posted by Sam Staffan (Member # 4552) on :
![[Smile]](smile.gif)