This has got to be at least 20 yrs old......is this brand anything special? Is it still any good? (The can is nearly full)
Thanks,
joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Make a test with a very clean brush. Should be fine.
Posted by John Kurtzman (Member # 1736) on :
Mr. Cieslowski; Had used that brand before, and I believe that Kurz & Partners started out as Hastings. Looks to be outdoor stuff, however, turn the can so we can read the total ingrediants on the lable. It would be an outdoor mixture if ("fat oil") either boiled or raw lindseed oil is a major constituent of the contents. Don't be shy, either call Dick Blick for a refund, or just give it a whirl. First stir the contents in the can with a white oak stick (debarked)aproximately 1/4" to 5/16" in daimeter at the big end, and no longer than 10" with less than 5 degrees of taper from one end to the other. Flat or slightly angled bottom stirring end rather than round, and without the begining formation of knots in its entirety. Be sure that it is not a reminant from a lower limb found on the ground, rather something you personally cut under a full moon at midnight. Stir clockwise contrary to northern hemispher vortex rotation to feel if there was any seperatrion of ingrediants and to circulate any sediment. After that, turn the can upside down and slowly rotate it for about 10 minutes in a counter clockwise direction to demagnitize any sediments from the previous rotations contrary to the northern hemisphere vortex rotations, reason being that it is upside down. I know about that sort of stuff because in my travels through Canaan once, ran across a Polish cook book of correct procedures for making anything, and how to verbaly justify the unknown.The author is a name I can't pronounce, but was once a member of the Boars Head Crusaders turned professor at "Pirogi Parochial" university in Ham Hock Poland. Also mentioned in that book was that red oak wooden nickels are worth more euro's than white oak wooden nickels. (Harder to carve maybee?)
Hi Joe....post this on Hand Lettering Forum
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
good stuff! I'd take it in an instant if you don't want it.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
.....What I want is whatever Kurtzman is smokin'! Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
quote:Originally posted by John Kurtzman: Mr. Cieslowski; First stir the contents in the can with a white oak stick (debarked)aproximately 1/4" to 5/16" in daimeter at the big end, and no longer than 10" with less than 5 degrees of taper from one end to the other. Flat or slightly angled bottom stirring end rather than round, and without the begining formation of knots in its entirety. Be sure that it is not a reminant from a lower limb found on the ground, rather something you personally cut under a full moon at midnight. Stir clockwise contrary to northern hemispher vortex rotation to feel if there was any seperatrion of ingrediants and to circulate any sediment. After that, turn the can upside down and slowly rotate it for about 10 minutes in a counter clockwise direction to demagnitize any sediments from the previous rotations contrary to the northern hemisphere vortex rotations, reason being that it is upside down.
Some other old skool guys might have an idea, but generally I like to open a brand new can of size for every project I do. This can might look good in the American Sign Museum.
Posted by John Kurtzman (Member # 1736) on :
I'll bet that Cam would have been able to find those "WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION"
Curious "Aristotle" post Mr. Bortz. If, according to Freud, truth is what one believes it to be, then one's personal truth is nothing more than a reflection from those that does ones thinking for them. Furthermore, Freud, in another one of his publications states "CROOKS THINK EVERYONE ELSE IS A CROOK" and therefore judge others according to their mentality and attitude of mind based on what they think they see and/or have been told to believe. Historically, syligistical reasoning within a mediocroity that embraces "Guilty by accusation" as an axiom of truth has always been a popular, but uneducated verdict. Elucidate your accusation Aristotle or shut up. PS just to put a zig to your zag, Aristotle, being an adept in following the teachings of the "Mystery Schools" of Egypt was refering to "truth" being insight to the natural and cosmic laws governing spiritual ontology and primoridal functions of the universes, not the pesudo truths within the moralities of human societies. Ever try to plea-bargan gravity?
yea!!!!!!
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Sorry to get off topic here, but..............
I've started testing this size. #1 Man, this stuff is YELLOW!!!!! #2 It came out of the can looking very clean. #3 It seems pretty thick to me.....didn't flow out very well. A touch of reducer may be in order. #4 I laid the first patch of gold after 18 hrs. The gild is OK, but it's gonna get better. The squeek test was good but the lid test said "got a ways to go". I'll lay a patch every 2 hrs. now.
Here's a pic of the test set-up and the first gild test. BTW, it's 65 degrees in the finish room and dry.
OK, now you guys can have the thread back...
joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
quote:Originally posted by John Kurtzman: Don't be shy, either call Dick Blick for a refund
Why would Dick Blick be responsible for giving a refund on a 20 year-old can of size?
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
plea bargain gravity hehee eee
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
Interesting did you get all the fallouts and hardenings fully disolved
personally I DO favour the 15 min acryl size
It is really bright and easy
love yoe
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Stein,
I shook the can a lot, on and off for several days because it has been sitting around for a long time. The size came out smooth and creamy....no lumps etc. For the last 4 or 5 years, I have been using 1Shot fast size. I'm not familiar with the 15 min. acryl fast size......can you tell me more about it?
Thanks,
joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
Ill send some, it makes a real shiny gild after all itsa water gild.
Cant drown a water gild, or yes, but if you do it is ruined for all to see not only the craftsmen(women)
Acryl size, to be prezise, after 15 minutes its dry so you cant drown the GOLD and it stays useable for 3 weeks, so you might have a nice loong holiday between sizing and gilding
I used to, when gilding with oil lukas 3 hour size on impotant pieces, to size a test piece half and hour before sizing the workpiece
sleept with a finger on the first sized piece, when it was dryeeed right, i had a coffe and a lot of gilding
horrible
with the acryl on the otherhand cant fail
Stays open loooong, as long as its not a too dusty workshop 3 weeks at least!!
dont need 2-3 layers like "some" oil and water technichks, but might charcghle like
read gould times 3
water washing brushes? ? ? ?
no fire hazard?
used it for 15 years
top stuff
Ill send you some drops if you cant find it It selled in art shops here
just acryl size
15 years of exp giving cheap advices
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Thank You Stein,
I don't think we have anything like that here in the states. I'd like to learn more about it....I'll do some searching.
I really like your sense of humor .
Welcome to letterville!
joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by Bob Gilliland (Member # 28) on :
Joe,
Do a search for Kölner Instacoll System. It's been available here in the States for a long time. A few weeks back I visited an exterior sign that has been out for just over fifteen years; still looks fresh, still looks brilliant (had a very good base for the size/gild). I myself have been using it just over ten years.
There was a reformulation a few years back that has given the base an almost unlimited open time. Simply apply the activator over top of the dried base when you’re ready to lay the leaf. Great from a production standpoint as something could be sized a week before time was allotted for the actual gild to happen. A week later, setup to do the gilding, apply the activator and a few minutes later be gilding. Something comes up that you couldn’t complete the job, no problem; apply the activator again when you have more time. I personally have experimented and re-applied the activator five times over a two week time period just as a test. The fifth time worked just like the first.
Three things I’ll caution you about. First, due to your location, order it and have it shipped in summer or early fall. It is water based and therefore susceptible to freezing. Think not only about your location, but where it is coming from and how it is being shipped. It’s cold at 30,000 feet in a non-pressured airplane flying over the New England area even in early May .We have experienced usability problems with product that has gone through a freeze-thaw cycle.
Second item; it’s brilliant, I mean really brilliant! When other sign folks have seen the results, the first question is usually “how did you burnish that”. Virtually none, just seat the leaf and that’s about it. It is brilliant! That’s not always a desirable result. In particular, based on one of your recent post, steep, deep, incised carving may not yield an acceptable result. My preference is to do a very shallow (very shallow), almost flat carve (think along the lines of a coin; very little relief but highly effective) when using water based size. Most preferred use for me, over a convex (domed) item; it reflects the light in a wider viewing area and has brilliance throughout the entire viewing duration.
Third item and Stein already mentioned it; dust/dirt. Since you can be a bit more relaxed and liberal about the time between applying the size and laying leaf, dust can be a real concern. Producing the brilliance that it does, dirt is just that much more apparent. Same amount of dust and dirt particles on an oil based piece and a water based piece; the water based piece will almost always “appear” to have more dirt. Clean, clean, clean!
They offer a clear and a yellow base. I’ve only used the yellow to date on surface gilding. I plan on doing some glass/window experimenting this summer with the clear base. I doubt it will be an acceptable replacement for water gilding on windows, however, for some decorative glass applications, perhaps. Maybe someone else that has already tried this can speak –up.
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Bob,
Thank You Very Much!!!! That's great. I will look around for suppliers....maybe Sepp would be interested in carrying it.
Say Hi to Cathy for me
Thanks Again,
joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
the acryl size I have does not need an activator.
Its white as milk in the bottle, turns fully transperant in 15 minutes, open for weeks, even months,
only for surface gilding, not a mirror gild on glass, at least i have not succseded there
bottle at shop, post fabric name tommorrow
Posted by vance galliher (Member # 581) on :
Joe I thing Stein is talking about Wunda Size, and Sepp does carry it (page 17 of current Product List August 2007)
Posted by Bob Gilliland (Member # 28) on :
Joe,
Unless they recently dropped it from the line card, Sepp carries it and usually has it in stock.
Wunda Size produces a nice brilliant finish as well (like most water based sizes); however, I was unable to get it to level as nice as Instacoll when brushed. When using Wunda, the mindset for me anyway, is to usually go with spraying it on. Additionally, Wunda is for interior applications only, not interior/exterior like Instacoll. I’m not trying to push Instacoll, just pointing out some items to keep in mind based on past experiences.
For anyone that desires to reduce the learning curve with acrylic based sizes, clays, and other tips and tricks, spend some time at the Society of Gilders website/forum, gildedplanet.com, and other similar sites that Master Gilders participate at. Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Great!!!!!!
More homework!!
Seriously, Bob
joe,
Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
Lefranc & Bourgeois mixtion a dorer a l eau (water size)
in and outdoors used it for nearly 20 years
Posted by Bob Gilliland (Member # 28) on :
Stein,
I’ve heard of that size but have never interfaced with it. How well does it self level? I do have some old L&B, but they are oil based.
My English isn’t the greatest (and it’s supposedly my first language ) so French is waaaay down on the list. I think the L&B Mixtion À Dorer Clarifièe is a slow size, or 12 hour size. I am fairly confident that the size in this particular can contains the lead based formula. The Charbonnel Mixtion À Dorer Clarifièe is a fast size, or 3 hour size. Again, I think the above to be the case but have not invested the time yet to investigate, experiment, and document. Posted by Len Mort (Member # 7030) on :
Never was able to display any photos you submitted, but it sure sounds like Hastings or Swift slow oil size. Best size ever on the market, gave a great gild and remained workable for a long time for those large projects, Church steeples, building domes, weather vanes and letters or any other projects that would not require top coating for protection.
I would love to find a case of that old slow size. Used the last of what I had in shop from at least twenty five years ago, it would go a long way.
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
Doesnt selflevel easily,gets kinda bulky, but even if let dried humpy, they will hardly show after gold is laid.
Seems to even out small scratches too, contrary to normal gilding.
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