This is a rant - so if you don't want to view what's coming....just pass this one by.
Ok, so I just bought a new $200 APC Backup. I drive 25 miles one way to pick it up.
I get back, plug the battery connector together per instructions and turn it on.....the "Replace Battery" red light starts blinking and the unit beeps incessantly at me.
I call the toll free number and get tech support - it's in the PHILIPPINES...
The tech gal puts me on hold while she gets an RMA....to replace the battery....she never returns and the phone is dead silent....I'm wondering if the connection got dropped. Maybe a lobster cut through one of the undersea phone lines.
I call back and have to completely start over....this gal shouldn't even be on the payroll...English sucks, and I have to spell (literally) every word for her....even my state which is Michigan.
I finally hang up on her, sensing that my chances of having the transaction go through are about 1 tenth of 1 percent.
So, off I go on another 50 mile round trip back to the store to return it...wasted time, but easier.
My lamentation is that what kind of country do we now live in where the company is listed with an American address - but all their contact numbers are farmed out to some third world country where the techs can barely speak the language??
All to save 5 cents....
I'd rather pay $10 more for every freaking item I buy and know it's backed up on the phone by someone named Frank or Mary....not Nyu or Sciepan.
Jeesh. Ok, I feel better now....I'm off to return this junker.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Si Senior
Convengo con ti a sir
[ September 10, 2007, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: William DeBekker ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
its the way you wanted it....NO UNIONS, CHEAP LABOR, INFERIOR PRODUCTS NOT MANAFACTURED IN THE U.S.A......be happy ...AND LEARN A COUPLE FOREIGN LANGUAGES ......)))))))) i could go on.... what i really want ....is some of that GOOD OLD LEAD BASED PAINT.....they got it and we cant buy it????????)))))))
[ September 10, 2007, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Amen Todd.
As Grama always said....What in the WORLD in this world coming to?
Posted by Frank Smith (Member # 146) on :
Geez, Todd, I can't remember the last time I called tech support for ANYTHING. It was still total frustration back when they knew English.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
even sadder... while you're right, the cheap labor does place those techs off shore somewhere... to enjoy the challenges of that english-as-a-not-yet-second language... you need not go far anymore.
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on :
The cure for this Country is long over due and only the good Dr. Ron Paul can inject the enema that is desperately needed.
I'm totally with ya Joe! (this is NOT a political post)
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
My big question is: How did this person get a telephone service job? I love it when they say their nale is Victoria or Kevin when you know darn well it's really Achmed or Habib.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i didnt intend it to be....it more of a "what happened to most INDUSTRIOUS NATION that we had up untill the 70's? iam from PA/W.VA orignally....and my dad and family was coal miners. i worked at WIERTON STEEL. we now sell our crushed car to CHINA... they turn back into steel....(like we used to do)then sell it back to us.....because we got a nation of people WHO DONT WANT THAT JOB??? BULL CRAP. we shut off all the oil wells in tex/ok and buy it from VENESULA...KUWAIT. all the while the price keeps going up. the 1ST OIL WELL IN THE U.S. is in oil city pa...still pumpin oil. JOHN DEERE is made in china.... did one shot sell their formula for its lead based paint to the chineses too??????????
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Sadly this is not confined to the USA!
We have it here too! Even my own Bank has transfered its phone service offshore. Now all my acccount details are available in a third world country. What next?
At least the Indian operator spoke good English and didn't pretend to be Mary Smith!
Posted by stein Saether (Member # 430) on :
its worldwide only jobs left here are barkeepers and hairdressers
fish caught along our coast by norwegian owned russian trawleers is frozen,transported to china, half defrosted, prosessed, packed, frozen and transported back to our shops to buy and eat.
eugh
[ September 10, 2007, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: stein Saether ]
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Todd said "My lamentation is that what kind of country do we now live in where the company is listed with an American address - but all their contact numbers are farmed out to some third world country where the techs can barely speak the language??" ---------------------
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Todd said "My lamentation is that what kind of country do we now live in where the company is listed with an American address - but all their contact numbers are farmed out to some third world country where the techs can barely speak the language??" --------------------- This kind of out-sourcing has been going for a long time. Even the tax authorities of some states have bucked their contact numbers overseas to gawd-knows-where. So it's bad enough when "customer service" of a "domestic" company can't even pronounce the names of streets and states. Now we're supposed to accept the presumption that those people know anything about US tax law? Wow. Where'd they learn it? Gosh, maybe if we'd teach it here, to our own people, we might not have to call those furriners. And I'm not xenophobic: I don't believe you Brits & POMEs & Latinos would appreciate calling ME for local help. And if I screwed up, what could you do about it?
I agree with Old Paint: That's the way the gringos wanted it; cheap labor.
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
It's a sad state of affairs. Walk into Walmart or Harbour Freight (the tool store) or here in Canada Canadian Tire and Princess Auto. Mostly "junk" almost exclusively made in China. Emptying our economy and filling up our landfills, what a concept.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
I guess we won't be going for Chinese today, huh?
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Wow! Sorry you had the trouble.
English and "accents" My wife once called the bank concerning a check written to "Century Buyers", but the girl at the bank, obviously from "Up North", took the name to be "Sun Tree Buyers". Needless to say, that caused some confusion.
"Quality" products When I bought the spiral staircase for my house, I paid to have the STEEL stairs primed and painted.....READY TO INSTALL. Not only did I have to cut and fit ALL of the rails because they were too long, but All of the parts to my USA-made stairs, except the center column and rail, arrived piled in a big cardboard box with steel rubbing against steel and not only had scars, scratches and scuffs, but a few gouges where the steel form one piece grated into the next. Needless to say, I ended up RE-priming and painting the stairkit which I paid about $2700 for and did not buy the bargain brand either. That same season, I had bought an $89 weight bench set, for my kid, at Wallyworld. When I took the set out of the box to assemble for the christmas tree, I was astounded. There were dozens of parts to this thing but each and every one came wrapped individually in sheet foam or plastic. I couldn't believe the care and detail expended in ensuring that the cheap weightset arrived in immaculate condition. It was almost rediculous. There wasn't a scratch on this thing. Then I could go on about the ends of my sandblast stencil which the manufacturer refuses to adequately protect from UPS......UPS......I won't go into that either.
Tech Support Then there's Windows Vista.... Try the Microsoft tech support in India. I won't go into it now but, in our experience, it was second to None. They bent over backwards and even called us back several times trying to resolve our problem. We live in an increasingly global economy and it is going to to be that way from no on.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
Todd..
WHAT THE HELL YOU TALKING ABOUT Try Calling Texas or Georgia. Can't Understand them Either. Posted by captain ken (Member # 742) on :
so whats the point?
Posted by thom miller (Member # 1845) on :
I dink u shobee ass hammed o' you self! Tek support is reddy tohelp evrysone 24 hrs a dayz! May Be you needs to speak slow down. Zen they help better.
Posted by Marty Renfro (Member # 3293) on :
quote:Originally posted by William DeBekker: Todd..
WHAT THE HELL YOU TALKING ABOUT Try Calling Texas or Georgia. Can't Understand them Either.
Hey, I resemble that remark!
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
If you've ever tried to talk to a live human at AT&T, you'd never be convinced they're a communications outfit!
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Ron Paul at Letterville? This thing is bigger than I realized, and yeah, I endorse him.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
All to common...
I bought an audio amplifier from WallofChina-Mart a couple of months ago. Opened it up and in big red letters on the installation instructions it says "DO NOT RETURN TO STORE OR POINT OF PURCHASE".
Of course, a few days later when I installed it, it was defective. Called the number...not in service. Looked up the company's corporate headquarters online and called the number...
...not in service.
Be of good cheer, Todd. At least you GOT someone. I got an electronic paperweight.
GRRRRR!!! Rapid
[ September 11, 2007, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
With all this griping about outsourcing, it looks to me like a business opportunity is making itself known. Question is, is anyone willing to take the risk?
.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
quote:With all this griping about outsourcing, it looks to me like a business opportunity is making itself known. Question is, is anyone willing to take the risk?
Yeppers, I will start selling the English Version of Rosetta Stone to outsourced companys.
Watch out Donny Deutsch here I come.
[ September 12, 2007, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: William DeBekker ]
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Taylor: With all this griping about outsourcing, it looks to me like a business opportunity is making itself known. Question is, is anyone willing to take the risk?
.
Glenn, I think all the griping results from folks having experienced doing business with companys who have "taken that risk", and are now reaping the rewards of their business decisions.
Customer satisfaction apparently is something that has suffered, as a result of such decisions, and although the cheapness of labour seems attractive at first glance, it does come with certain hidden costs. There's also that traditional patriotic consideration of exporting jobs offshore in exchange for that cheap labour, and supporting the economies of other countries who may hold to values NOT embraced in the North American culture.
For every such decision, there is a consequence, and this griping is indicative of one of those consequences.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
As far as the techs with poor English skills go, demand another tech. We recently had an experience along those lines. Denise got really frustrated with ones poor English , asked for his supervisor, who wasn't any better and was rude to boot. In frustration she handed me the phone. After a few minutes of getting nowhere, I hung up, redialed the number, got another tech I couldn't understand, hung up, redialed and got "Mike". He spoke very good English, solved the problem and I could have cared less what his actual name was. I refuse to sweat the little crap. I also refuse to deal with somebody I can't understand. I also sympathise with these folks too. I had a recent dealing with a woman with an Asian accent and I was having trouble hearing her. I went out of my way to insure her it wasn't her English that was the problem but merely a volume issue with her equipment. She thanked me as she had been catching flak all day.
Posted by Felix Marcano (Member # 1833) on :
<<English and "accents" My wife once called the bank concerning a check written to "Century Buyers", but the girl at the bank, obviously from "Up North", took the name to be "Sun Tree Buyers". Needless to say, that caused some confusion..>>
This so reminds me of Bob's cartoon about the "Auto Body" experience! (Out of body)
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Ken,
I'm not sure you understood my point.
Where people see problems, I see opportunity and potentials.
The matter of people buying on the cheap is nothing new. Back in the 80's, my mom had her own bicycle shop and was a Schwinn dealer. A hundred yards from her was a department store that sold Huffys. She used to worry about losing sales because of their much lower prices. I asked her where she's making her money - on the sale of the bike or on the repairs. According to the books, it was the repairs. And it turned out that roughly 90% of her repairs were on those bikes the department store was selling.
She also made notes on the kind of complaints she was hearing from customers. A lot of them were about the lack of service from the department store.
In the end, she was glad the department store was there. She made more money off of them than anything else.
I recently switched internet providers going from one of the big boys to a local company which also sold and repaired computers. One of their guys was in my shop a couple weeks ago setting up our network and I asked how he felt about the Walmart that was across the street from him and the fact they were selling computers for nearly half of what he was charging. He just grinned and said it was one of the best things to ever happen to him. His story was pretty much in line with my mom's. The profit margins on computers is pretty slim as it is and he's making a killing on repairs and service calls. The frustration that Todd talks about is what has driven customers to him and helped his service department grow.
*******
As for tech support being outsourced, has anyone really considered what it cost a manufacturer per call? The last article I read said it cost on average about $45 per call. A large portion of those had more to do with operator (read: customer) error rather than faulty equipment.
Lets be honest. We all want the best deal and price plays a big part of it. And when companies rely on outsourcing their support, can we really blame them? If you want to talk to someone who speaks your language as well as you do, then buy from the local guy who stands behind what he sells. But if you're going to buy based on price, frustration is going to be part of the deal.
Sometimes is good to buy from one of the big box stores. Sometimes its better to buy from the local guy. You get to make the choice so lets not blame the manufacturer for your decisions.
I don't know where Todd bought his APC. In my town, I have several available sources. I buy mine from Staples because of their return policies and ease of access. I bought a computer from them not too long ago. A week after I got it the power supply fried. I just put it back in the box and returned it. They gave me a brand new one no questions asked. No RMAs. No forms to fill out. Nothing.
.
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
Ok, sorry Glenn. I did misunderstand your initial response. I had thought you were extending an invitation to those in the sign business to consider outsourcing some of their business to offshore suppliers as a business opportunity. Your question whether or not it was a risk worth taking, seemed to imply that suggestion.
I've seen the results of that with tons of misspelled or misprinted t-shirts in dollar store bargain bins, which were obviously rejects.
Your clarification of your intention is much more revealing and insightful, and I tend to agree with what you've stated. Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Its my fault, Ken. Sometimes what's in my head & heart doesn't translate well on my keyboard.
.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
So in turn with asking provocative questions:
When you buy supplies for your shop - not "sign supplies" per se, but things like nuts and bolts, paint strainers, small hand tools, and other general hardware items, do you go to Home Depot or Walmart, or to your local hardware store? When you need a pair of work boots, do you buy at Walmart, or at a locally-owned shoe store? Do you buy a computer or TV at Best Buy or at the local shop? Where do you buy your food? Your clothing?
Most Americans aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is. They want low-priced consumer goods, then bellyache that all the manufacturing jobs go to China. They want inexpensive fresh food all year long, then complain about the illegal immigrants that pick the veggies and cut the meat.
Here's a reality check, the kind that gets flamed: YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. You want to buy American-made products produced by Union labor? You better be ready to open your wallets, 'cause the cost of those wages and benefits and enviromental regulations and everything else are going to be part of a far higher prices, the kind of prices that most Americans are not willing to pay. We complain about Walmart and Home Depot, then starve out our local businesses to save a nickle - its happened all over the country, and we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
You want the source of the problem? Take a long, hard look in the mirror, boys and girls.
Posted by Bill Reusch (Member # 8028) on :
Something happened the other day that reinforced my reasons why I never go to megelow-mart or sams.
Had a chance to bid on a lit cabinet with changeable letters for a new church in the area. I would have gotten the job too, as the person who I was dealing with is a friend with a lot of pull in this church, but he was not on the sign committee. Before I could make a call to Sign Cabinets and get a price he calls me back and tells me that there was already a cabinet at the church, and that they had gotten at sams club for, get this, $67.00! We both laughed about it wondering how long this junk would last and he told me he'll be in charge next sign, which will probably be in the spring. Cam's right, I stay away from those places and try my hardest to deal with people that do business with me, but even the mom and pop stores have chinese labels on the majority of merchandise. Oh, and a big Ron Paul supporter here too!
Posted by Jason Davie (Member # 2172) on :
Ron Paul? Ru-Paul?
Posted by Donald Miner (Member # 6472) on :
And it all comes down to this boys and girls, I'll sum it up in one word, GREED! Nuff Said. Love ya'all, Don
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Never trust a guy with two first names....hehehe.
Posted by Joe Sciury (Member # 4653) on :
Yea Todd, I don't trust "Jason Davie" either......He's never thanked me, when I've helped him with his questions. :^)~
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Cam, There's a great little family owned grocery store here I go to. Nice folks, always helpful. The big chain store....I avoid it like the plague. Cheaper's one thing, but just plain crappy food...I pass.
Like begets like I suppose. I'm a one man shop in a one horse town. I support those who support me and try my best to keep my purchases with local businesses.
I go to the local hardware store all the time, not because it's closer, but because they aren't burdened with mouth breather employees who's cumulative knowledge is limited to which isle hammers are in. Easy to prove....just ask a Home Dropout worker if they have any 1/2" MDO in stock. If you have a few minutes to kill, the deer-in-the-headlights look and inevitable six-people-running-around-in-circles-without-a-clue can almost be fun to watch.
Could I save more money there? If initial price was all that mattered, maybe, but come time to get a warranty backed up, a replacement or customer service that's even remotely intelligent...may as well go online. That's what they're gonna do anyway and you can probably find the info faster than they can.
Do I shop at the big box stores? Yeah, but for one of two reasons... ...no one around here has a similar item... or it's a throw away item anyway, like popsicle sticks or dixie cups for mixing paint in, or cheap sneakers for spilling it on.
Our little one horse town has a Wally World under construction right now, but I really don't see me going there much after the doors open....I'll be on the other end of the parking lot at the good old local hardware store...where they know what they are doing and who they are doing it for.
Rapid
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Most things you buy are throw aways one day.
How many flicks do you get from a Bic lighter? Or you can buy the Zippo!
But then again you can buy 4 for a dollar at the Dollar Store.
Cam is soo right on this, If you really want the quality and service of something then be preper to pay the price.
Is that not the name of our game?
Conviencing the customer that the Zippo lighter will last a lifetime is the key to a purchase.
Why the hell are you calling off land tech numbers when you can deal with the point of purchase to help you out.
Let them make the calls to resolve the problem or if not then get your money back.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Reminds me of the joke about the redneck who was walking along the beach and unearthed a bottle from the sand with his feet. Soon thereafter a genie appeared and said "I grant you 4 wishes."
"For my first wish, I wish all those $%%&$^ who've been undercutting the wages of our hard workin' EEEmerican unionists would vanish from our borders!"
Genie said, "Done!" and POOF they were gone.
"For my second wish, I wish all those unclean %&*% who don't believe in the true faith of our nation would vanish from the face of the earth!"
Genie said, "Done!" and poof they were gone.
"For my third wish, I wish that for once when you call for technical assistance for a part for my truck that doesn't work and isn't made in the good ole U.S. of A., you get somebody who can speak EEEEmerican."
After a pause, the genie said, "And what would your 4th wish be sir?"
The redneck thought for a bit and said, "O.K., we got rid of those undercuttin' $%%&$^....................and we got rid of those unclean, unholy %&*%.......................................................and we also got somebody who can talk on the phone so as ya can understand, right?"
"That's right!" said the genie.
After a good long pause, he said "Well then..................................................................................................................................................................................... ........................I'll take a BUD LIGHT!"
[ September 13, 2007, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: Bill Diaz ]
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
I have posted before about inferior stuff we buy. I think the warranty ends when it crosses the scanner. It seems everything is disposable nowadays and every extended warranty (if bought)is actually starting to look good.
But in the defense of US companies people just plain damn dont want to work anymore. Im sure insurance companies and taxes are pounding these large companies also. causing them to outsource
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
The reason domestic products and services cost more than 3rd-world is that we (Americans in this case) have a have a higher standard of living. Our ancestors were 3rd-world people (and/or slaves), and eventually they got tired of it. So we have now labor laws, safety regulations, minimum wage, etc. This was quite a struggle, and was accomplished by cooperation, mutual support and the idea of "union."
I eat from the mom&pop grocery 2 blocks away. The big supermarket prices may be lower, but I'm not really sure about that. For instance, if I have to DRIVE there, that's expensive as hell. Besides, Mom&Pop are neighbors, and they'd do me a favor if I were to ask. What would the Big Store do? A dollar goes further, spent locally. To "outsource" for cheap labor tends to undermine all this. But you know, "the bad one sells, the worse one buys." And those damned hypocrites who rant against foreign customer service, and yet pay for those products, I believe, are supporting slave labor.
Posted by Mark M. Kottwitz (Member # 1764) on :
As far as tech support...
Foamy's Rants and find the one that is for tech support (4 columns down, 4 rows over)...
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