[ March 22, 2007, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: John Deaton ]
Posted by Miles Cullinane (Member # 980) on :
John, I checked my joining up date and what do you know, we joined at the same time. When the site gets to me I just drop off for a while. why not do the same?
I understand that you may have had higher hopes for your CD project but letterville isn't the only outlet so maybe an Ad in signcraft or the like might stir up interest.
I have seen a lot of your signs over the years and I would say, believe in your own abilities and get through this period in your life. You are a good designer, signmaker and cartoonist. Stick with it and maybe stick with us as well.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
John - Several folks have tried producing CD's of clip art and various artworks. I don't believe many have had an overwhelming success rate.
Mike Jackson has a series, as well as David Butler, but neither has become wealthy from the venture. Both will tell horror stories of seeing their clip art used by some here but knowing that they never bought a CD...so someone is ripping off the creators by giving it away.
Don Coplen posted a similar story after spending so much time on his Palm's Trilogy and then not having many sold.
You create some fantastic works of art, and it's a shame that the CD's haven't been more successful thus far. At some point I will buy them for my collection, but right now the nickels are thin. Many are going through just what you are experiencing.
I'll not try to be the Monday morning quarterback, but to me it doesn't seem fair to the rest of the team when you take your ball and go home when the game is not being played to suit you.
There's a lot more good folks on this forum than there are jerks. Your presence is needed here to make the place better. Rather than leaving, why not stick around and be a part of the solution to enhancing the place?
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
Ditto to Mr. Chapman....
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
I just can't top the way Raymond put it!
He said everything I was feeling, and conveyed it perfectly.
Funny, I just renewed my residency here today.
John, I hope you'll reconsider. You are one of several people on here that make this place worth coming to for me.
Your friend, ~nettie
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Ditto to what Ray said and to what Janette added. I just renewed my membership last Monday.
I tried my hand at the clip art sales on the BB about ten years back. I offered a collection of vector pinstripes. It was so long ago they were on a floppy .....................................................................................................I sold two (2).
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I agree with Ray and Nettie. You are too good to leave us. This place needs guys like you. I hope you'll reconsider.
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
I like Miles' theory. Don't quit, just step back for a while. This isn't a bad place, just a slice of humanity, confirming we are all very different. As for us as individuals, we must first make sure we don't have any health issues. Here's my take on that subject... No you can't make that determination on your own. See your Dr., your Naturalpath, your Healer or whoever you trust with your physical and mental wellness. Be frank and open and tell it like it is... then listen! You didn't ask for my opinion, but I consider you a friend and as a friend I care, so ha! All the Best John.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
John, I have always looked forward to seeing anything you post, so I'm very sad to see the possibility of you walking away from the BB. Your designs are nothing short of superb, and it's been a shock to me that you haven't been doing well.
My thoughts are similar to those that have been expressed. Your input is a big part of what makes this place worth while. I hope you will reconsider, and ignore the posts by those that are less than sympathetic with your situation.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
D. All of the above
Posted by Lynda Yoder (Member # 7340) on :
This is so depressing. Please don't leave. Your work is beautiful & I wish I could afford your CD's but my business has been slow also. I needed to get involved in this to give myself a little push. The hand work is attempting to pull me back to it again after many years of vinyling. You all are an inspiration for that. Thank you so much. Lynda
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
John
I have total respect for you and your courage to step up to the plate and give it you best swing with the bat! I have to agree about the persons that I call Mick Fighters... It is not nice knowing that some clubed footed person can type with two fingers and put everyone on edge.
I have always loved your style of work! but did not purchase because this is my livelyhood as well, and I know how to draw things and items. But like yourself, I have sat back with a coffee or in some cases a Beer and re-thought my plans..
Best of luck to you in the new move of lifes long journey! Rembember.... tomorrow there will be a "Sun Shining in the Sky!"
Raven Graphics/2007
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Wish you the best. Believe me, I feel the frustration. Maybe niot in an art cd but in the slow growth of my own biz. Your art is really good. I would purchase one if I had the need for it. But since I had to move away from a thriving business where I was and now there is not much need for it. Lately I've been doing printing, computer repairs and paint work. So, sorry it didn't happen for you.
Posted by Anne McDonald (Member # 6842) on :
Oh Dear, as a newbie here, I feel so sad reading your post. Your cartoons that I have seen are so marvellous! I hope you will reconsider and just drop away for a little while as you readjust to this time in your life and business.
It is hard in this world to make a penny from what you put your heart and soul into and I guess that is why it hurts when it does not pan out the way you imagined it might.
I have had lots of people say to me, oh, your art is marvellous you could make a lot of money selling pieces. I put a few pieces up for sale last year, and guess what, not one of them sold!
Most people are big on words and tight on money!!
I still continue to produce artworks and do what I have always done. Give em away as gifts to the people I respect and treasure, the smiles are worth more than money on any day!!
I go to work, I make ends meet, I expect to exit this world happy and poor!!
Take care John, hope you reconsider. Anne
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Oh well John, at one time I too felt the same fustration as you and thought to myself I must have done something wrong but believe me it isn't that we ourselves have done wrong, its that we haven't looked at the big picture. In the past I too was a merchant here in Letterville selling my killerKarts, so I could fully understand your comments to Letterville. As you must know I'm not the kind of pat on the back person or one who belongs to any group. The ego here is not always left at the door as one would like you to believe and those here who have the money are also more than likely those who have the talent to do from scratch exactly what you do. As some have said here, there are other outlets for your works and believe me, thats a fact. Yes your work is good and yes you are good, but don't sell yourself short just from being in one place as I'm sure a good advertisement in a national magazine could do alot better.
I dont know ninety percent of the people here but I do know how things work and sometimes feel the same way as you do but only sometimes. You want to leave, leave but that's only simple depression setting in but it can also be that you've seen the other side and will take a new road to success where others who wear blinders cannot see. Sometimes its best to step back from a project and wait til you've got it all together before you get yourself in a hole deeper than your original feeling. I myself am a shoot from the hip person and I don't let anything or anybody get in my way and have always found that talent always rises above here-say in any forum especially in a hands on forum. John, all I'm saying is that your talent exceeds best when worries are at a minimum.
Take care of yourself, your family and relax, things is come to ya
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
Well I'll be damn, the grinch got a heart!
(kiddin' Madden, just very impressed... )
now what can we do about Picket.... Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
Very sad day indeed. I don't post here often as I am not a subscriber but I sure am sorry to see you leaving.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Mr Chapman....WELL PUT!
John: Hang in there buddy!
[ March 21, 2007, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
I don't know John Deaton from beans. I'm sure he's a talented and nice guy that has hit some tough times here lately, like many of us experience at one time or another. I know I've had my share. But,...BUT, I've never blamed anything or anyone but myself. There is always SOMETHING one can do to drum up more business and make more money. You have to depend on yourself, be inventive, knock on more doors, etc., etc. If I went flat broke tomorrow and had to turn out the lights, the LAST thing I would do is to blame my friends, much less a lot of folks I don't even really personally know on an internet forum. And if I was gonna leave that particular forum, I'd just leave quietly and not make a stink about it.
It's a tough world, John, regardless of how much talent you may have, and I for one don't feel sorry for ya. I think you're quitting on yourself more so than you're quitting these boards. That's a shame. That's a damn shame.
Posted by Dana Stanley (Member # 6786) on :
Gee Mark your tough, If you ever see me out on the ledge just keep walkin will ya!
I don't know what your personal problems are John but I'll say a prayer for you. I think Miles had some good advice. Get outa town for a while but don't burn the bridge. Most folks here are OK from what I can see.
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dana Stanley: Gee Mark your tough, If you ever see me out on the ledge just keep walkin will ya!
Nah, I'm not tough at all. I'm just posting what I think. And most folks in here ARE ok. In fact, they're great. I've gotten some terrific guidance and help in here, mostly with computer/CAD/CAM problems, as well as pricing advice. There are a few jerks, but you're gonna get that anywhere ya go, and I don't let "internet tough guys" bother me anymore. John shouldn't either.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
wishing you the best consequences around the corner John, whichever direction you may be headed, & however many corners you turn.
I know you wouldn't let this 11 month n00b to the boards get to ya anyway... but I don't see how dissin' one of the favorite sons of Letterville is gonna improve his experience here
be well John, how does that saying go... NIL ILLEGITIMUS CARBORUNDUM (or: don't bastards let the get you down)
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
Show me where I "dissed" him, Doug. Read his post (and mine), carefully. I think he dissed Letterville, and is clearly looking for a pity-party, which is sad enough. I think you state it clearly enough in your sig; "You get what you settle for." If you settle for failure doing what you're good at, then that's what you get,...failure.
I guarantee you that John knows deep inside he can do better, try harder, work smarter, all that. How do I know that? 'Cause it's true with ALL of us.
I may be a n00b, as you say, on these boards, but I'm hardly one in life.
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
Apparently, I struck a nerve with my comment about crying in your beer. John, anybody in Letterville who knows me will tell you that I have nothing but positive and altruistic intentions toward everyone here. Trust me pal, I've been where you are and have no doubt I'll be there again. This is a tough business no matter where you live, as Jill and Raymond have already testified in other threads.
Regarding the other mystery problems you're experiencing, I can't react to something I'm unaware of, but when you posted earlier about being really slow, I didn't want to make a public reply, and instead sent you an e-mail with an offer to help me on a really sweet gig.
Now I've found that in my 35 years in this biz, when I can't get the bills paid, I tend to broaden my scope and take what I can get. You didn't even bother to call or respond to my e-mail. I think most of us here are in awe of your immense talent, but where's the hustle? I don't have the natural ability and skill of most people on this board, but I work my ass off.
At the risk of being a club-footed jerk, I can't offer any advice to improve your situation other than when opportunity knocks, open the damn door......
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Ahh, if what I do just plain old dried up, I'd learn to drive a truck and get on with my life. But I'd probly still do lettering in my spare time. Throughout my years on this Earth, I've seen lots of guys "Become something else". So what, no big deal. This world is pretty tough to live in, and for some, it's just plain old uphill everyday. I don't have the right answers for your situation John, but I feel your pain.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
John,
I really don't know what to say to make you feel better. I've had my downers and would rather just smack anyone who tried to give me a pep talk or tell me how to handle my business.
To be frank, I don't feel like I've done much to earn anyone's respect, much less yours. I certainly don't deserve much of any. That's how I feel about it. I am in such genuine awe of you and others here I lack the words to properly express how I feel. I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
I owe you and everyone here such a debt of gratitude. I have no idea of how I can ever repay.
I want to help if you'll let me. I don't have any magic answers. I'm not some marketing genius or business wiz. I think most who know me would agree that pigheaded would be the better description. Accurate, too.
But, finish your beer and call me anytime. I don't care if you call collect. Call me. Maybe we can figure something out together.
.
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
quote: I want to help if you'll let me. I don't have any magic answers. I'm not some marketing genius or business wiz. I think most who know me would agree that pigheaded would be the better description. Accurate, too.
Don't be too hard on yourself Glenn. Success sometimes brings jealousy. You may be pig-headed but you are a nice pig!! Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
John...being an artist is not easy...keep lovin the Lord, and it will all come together. You have inspired me, and now I want to inspire you. Call if you feel inclined...I love you, man.
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
I have one more addition to this thread, and then I'll leave it, 'cause I done said my peace. It's an old story and it goes something like this:
An old miner in Arizona had worked his claim for 20 years. He dug and dug and dug for silver, hundreds of feet into the rocky earth, but barely found enough silver to survive on in all that time. He was real good at digging (that's all he really knew how to do), and loved his work. But after 20 years he got discouraged and sold his claim for cheap to the highest bidder. Y'all know the rest of the story; The new owner came in, dug 2 more feet, and hit the mother load, a huge vein of silver that made him incredibly rich overnight.
Moral of the story: Do I have to tell ya?
Keep working. Keep digging. If your work is your passion, you'll only cheat yourself if'n you quit when the earth gets hard and rocky and rewards aren't immediate. ;-)
Posted by Rod Tickle (Member # 575) on :
G'day John, Sorry to hear that you are going thru a bad patch right now, I too love your work and enjoy reading your posts. Your a great signie and cartoonist, I too will be getting your Cd's but the exchange rate to aussie dollars is up $hit creek but It will happen. Got soo much "stuff" on my plate with moving interstate etc so it will have to wait a bit longer.... sorry mate!
Put ya head down and arse up (aussie saying)and just make it happen, might not have happened here but i know it will happen for ya mate!
cheers and i'll have a beer for ya!
Rod
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Don't be too hard on Mark, I want my freinds to tell me what they're thinking. I know what I'm about, I can take it. If they're right, and I needed to hear it, well right on man. If they're wrong, then they don't know what they're talking about. Either way, I can live with it.
JD: I want to give you PART of my testimony from the last 5 years. They've been bad. '06 was the worst. We have 10 children, my wife stays home and homeschools them. So it's single income, debt free. I haven't done a detailed look at my actual income, but my guess is, below 15K. It was a REALLY bad year.
The clothes I had to wear were ones my wife found at garage sales and thrift stores. Now I'm as redneck as anybody, but some rednecks have very bad taste in colors. Pukey yellow green plaid shirts and faded brown pants. That was my attire. Oh and the sleeves were too short. When they tore, well, too bad. That was my lot. I wasn't A poster child of Appalachian poverty, I was THEE poster child of Appalachian poverty. It got so bad, I started wondering which relatives could take a couple three children when I was evicted.
I really needed the humility from it all, but also, there were three things I've since gone back to doing. I stopped doing them because I was so busy. The busy turned south, into the kind of busy where I was fixing broken things, bidding on jobs I didn't get, doing jobs that didn't pay as well, but were all I could get, and trying to drum up some decent jobs. All of which left no time for those important things, on it went in a cyclical way. (CCR: "guess you know the tune")
I just kept on feeling there was some reason He was holding me back, but I couldn't put my finger on "it". If I could only find "it", things would be better. Well, I did find "it", 3 things actually. One was spending time with the children. Man, are we doing some neat things together these days. The other two are "religeous" ( don't like that term man, it's about Him...) Anyway, with Steve and Barb's permission I'll tell it here, or I can email it.
This year? Unbeleivable. I did a neat gold leaf job. They liked it so much, their grown daughter wants me to illustrate a children's book for her. First book deal ever. Phone's ringing off the hook. Then a newspaper called, and did an interview. I got to tell them about my work (including contact info) my ministry, and my Synapsis family bible study method. All the stuff I want to tell the world about. Pictures in the article. I'm getting these calls where people say "I saw your work at so and so, would you come by and do that here?" Just like 20 years ago. A sign painter's dream world. Please believe me, none of this is exagerated.
Here's the point: Is there anything you were doing before, or are aware you should be doing, but are so busy putting out fires that you put it off? I know how it is, when you're in perpetual crisis mode, those things seem like a non priority. Say the word, an email will go your way.
You're good man, I hope you can keep doing your art.
Posted by Mark Tucker (Member # 6461) on :
quote:Originally posted by James Donahue: Don't be too hard on Mark
No no no! Let me have it, by all means!
Ahhh, dang. I posted again.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mark Tucker: I guarantee you that John knows deep inside he can do better, try harder, work smarter, all that. How do I know that? 'Cause it's true with ALL of us.
Well put. Nothing to do with JDIII, just personal experience. For me, this is a bell ringer. I think that when things begin to go "south" we experience discouragment. Then bills are due, perhaps another financial reversal in our personal life, and before we know it, we are experiencing full blown discouragment. Hang tough JDIII
Glenn: Thank you too. Always willing to stop what you're doing and lend a hand. I feel much the same way about Letterville.
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
Hi John,
I'll be sorry to see you go... This place also gets to me at times, every now and then my BS quota gets filled, and I've learned to drop off the board for a while. I've also learned that no-one even notices if I have dropped off... so much for ego...
Anyway IMHO you are one of the good guys here, and have a unique talent. The toons CD is great and is one that I pull out for rare 'special' jobs, not wanting to overuse it. I'm sorry to hear that I'm one of such a select few that bought into it. (Hmmmm... shoulda had it signed... ka-ching... ebay rarity (kidding))
Take care, I wish you and your family the best...
Posted by Frank Smith (Member # 146) on :
John- The shape the world's in, there's ALWAYS something to do. You choose as well as you can. Signs can pay ok; they pay twice as well as being a starving artist. Always put yourself in the customers' shoes and help them PROSPER. In Albany, NY, business hibernates in Jan. and Feb. so I used the time to try to learn web design stuff and and am finally making an actual website for a real restaurant. Will web design pan out for me? Who knows? I'm prepared for failure. What is failure? In America, even failure is a blessing...we just dress down, drive a junky car, maybe eat a little less, and our work isn't exactly what we really want to do. Nobody gets to live all of their dreams anyway. I count Letterville among my blessings and wish I had more time to be here, not to mention get to some meets. Keep the faith.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
John only you know whats best for you...I'll be sending my renewal into Barb in a few days.
Sure I've been bent a few times based on things that have happened here but I also realize it is a cyber version of real life and if it didn't exist or if I didn't come here I could never be affected by anyone here.
That said overall I think I'm the better for the experiences by coming to a place tht has like minded people when it comes to the craft...I certainly have never expected this or any other board to add to my income.
Overall I think Ray has said it best...But I'm sorry you don't think you belong here and wish you would reconsider.
Remember customers belong to everyone it's our job to drag them kicking and screaming into our bank accounts.
Good Luck to you.
Posted by Deri Russell (Member # 119) on :
Bye John. It was good to see your posts here. You seem like a nice fellow. And you are a VERY talented artist.
I didn't buy your CD because I don't have a call for the type of signage that would have cartoons on it. I'm sure if I did I would have. And if I find that my clientele starts to request cartoon figures I might yet. I guess maybe I should have bought one anyway. Because I have met you on the board. For this I apologize.
I don't know you well enough to give you any advice. I don't know whether I would even if you were a close friend. But I can tell you that I have had times, sometimes just a day, sometimes weeks, that I did not feel good about myself. Nothing was going right. My business wasn't up to my own expectations. My pocketbook was not where it should have been. My family and friends were trouble. The treadmill was going faster and faster and I was already running as fast as I could. Everybody has those times. Life has its ups and downs.
Take care and good luck with your future endeavours.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
[ March 22, 2007, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: John Deaton ]
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Yes, it sure is interesting to see how things can be painted, and percieved.
I don't see anyone's words on here as being malicious or manipulative. Even Mark's comments remind me of the way my mom handled me as a kid. (heck, she still does) I've come to really love that about my mom, now that I'm all growed up.
Still, Raymonds rings true the loudest with regards to being "right on" for the reality of your situation John. I hope you took them in.
I know Barb has tried to get a hold of you with regards to suggestions on promoting your cd's here, and with regards to giving you some slack on paying the advertising cost. Ironically, she finally hears back from you in this way.
Without getting too specific here, I ask you to please consider how much you *actually* paid to advertise here. I'd be willing to bet when you consider that investment, that you made some pretty good money dispite your poor turn out in sales. AND, you still have sales that will eventually happen generating from your year's exposure and familiarity here.
Some folks are just slow to cough up the bux because of their financial priorities. I think you can attest that we are all guilty of that from time to time. This is a pretty good example of that.
I consider you a friend John, but I was having troubles with the sour grapes aspects of this post. A true friend will keep it real, as I'm wanting to do here. Perhaps this reply of mine would have been better served as a personal email. But only a part of the picture was being broadcasted here, and the implications were misleading.
Your glass really is half full on this one. ~nettie
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Hope it don't get locked before I get to say:
Thank You, John. I've enjoyed getting to know you, and working on SONGPAINTER with you back in 2000-2001. (John's art work was on the cover of the first ever music CD totally themed to the sign craft and totally original songs written and performed by signcrafters.
We all felt the frustration when only a hand few of letterheads bought SongPainter (and we were just trying raise money to do something worthwhile)
I hope we continue to see you post here. You are a bigger than life, almost, if not, an icon on this forum. You are a greater encouragement than you know to many you don't even know.
Now, I'm going to go put SongPainter on and mull over the CD cover you made for a spark of inspiration today. (I keep saying: What would John do?")
[ March 22, 2007, 10:49 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
John,
Concerning the CDs. I realize opinions are like buttholes. We all have 'em. But if I may.
This is just an idea, but have you considered producing more topical CDs at a lower cost? Here is what I mean. Lets say we have three different topics - Construction Vehicles, Street Machines and Mascots.
For the Construction Vehicles the CD would include three different views of the same vehicle - a side view, front view and the 3/4 view (like you have now). You may have it limited to just a few different vehicles such as a dump truck, bulldozer, backhoe and a couple others. Perhaps no more than 18 to 24 separate renderings altogether.
And instead of selling the CD for $130, you would sell it for $65.
I realize that you are offering 75 different vehicles for $130. The problem is that from my perspective as a buyer/user, I'm only going to buy when I actually need something. And given my market, in a sense I'm spending $130 to get the few images that will actually do me any good.
By buying a smaller group of images that are more conducive to my needs, its much easier to break out that credit card.
Its like right now. I have a t-shirt job to do for a tractor pull event. If there was a Redneck CD (I'm allowed to use that word considering the sunburn I have right now) and it had a few useful images for only $65, I'd be placing an order right now.
Marketing your CDs this way can increase the volume of sales and you'll actually end up with more money in your pocket at the end of the year.
Anyhow, thats just my thinking and worth what ya paid for it. I hope you'll consider it.
.
Posted by Sal Cabrera (Member # 1236) on :
I don't know John Deaton . I'm sure he's a talented and nice guy. I wish you good luck Man!
When things go wrong As they sometimes will, When the Road you’re trudging Seems all uphill, When the funds are low And the debts are high, And you want to smile But you have to sigh, When care is pressing you down a bit, Rest if you must But don’t you quit. Life is queer With its twists and turns, As every one of us Sometimes learns, And many a Failure turns about, When you might have won Had you stuck it out. Don’t give up, Though the pace seems slow- you may succeed with another blow. Success if failure turned Inside out- The silver tint of the clouds of doubt. And you never can tell how close you are; It may be near When it seems so far. So stick to the fight When you’re hardest hit- It’s when things seem worst That you must not quit.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Honest to God, this just sucks! I just came on here and have to read this. I've talked to John Privately by email about some other issues and found him to be one of the good guys. Like I said before I would love to have a collection of trades people, plumbers, carpenters, constuction workers, plaster or painters, mechanics, carpet layers, appliance repairmen, you name it, I will buy it. Trades I could use one almost everyweek. I'm sure that others would as well. John please reconsider,I'd hate to lose one of the good guys, I hav't met anyone in person yet on the bullboard, except for Kelly, which was great!
Take care buddy.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
That's a wonderful poem Sal. I've personally kept that posted on the fridge at various periods in my own life. My problem was that I beleved it meant that I had to constatly bang my head against the wall until something gave.
Recognizing problems and taking action to fix them is not quitting. The sign business is often a fun thing to do for a living, but our first goal has to be to support ourselves and often a Family. In some cases, it might involve doing something drastic like relocating or even pulling the plug.
All of us have tough times. Most believe more money is the cure. It's easy to look at your neigbour's situation and decide, based on your own self esteem, that you are failing. It's important to remember that the race is not yet over. Burnout happens to all of us. I'm experiencing some of that myself right now.
People seem to always try and fix the blame instead of the problem. Nobody likes change, but there are times in our life when we need to do an honest check from the neck up, and take action.
If income is the problem, you have to change the way you are doing things. This might involve a move, a career change, or diversifying your income. I personally like the idea of my wife getting a fulltime job.
Looks like we have another crisis in Letterville. Someone we all know and respect is angry at Letterville. Instead of taking some comfort from the support and suggestions offered by the Community, they see leaving as the best way out. We've been down this road several times in the last 11 years.
Letterville bashing is a popular sport these days. Our phone has been ringing all day. The emails are flying back and forth. Everyone wants to know the real story. One guy stated that Letterville was going to hell in a handbasket. He heard it in chat so it must be true.
Just for the record, there is nothing wrong with Letterville. Our stats, available to anyone, continue to indicate the website is still growing. Do your own research. Count the posts today, and compare them to 2, 4, even 6 years ago. Letterheads from all over the World continue to need their Letterville fix everyday. And why not? It's almost always a good thing.
Our original goal for the website was to promote the Letterhead Movement, and do whatever we could to get you guys to attend live meets. So how are we doing?
Take a look at the Past Meets Page. Over the years, with your help, we've been able to document over 120 Letterhead Meets all over the World. Many of these meets were a direct result of People that met right here in Letterville. I'm proud that future generations of Letterheads will have this archive to reference.
We could go on about the numerous Panel Swaps, Step By Steps, Sign Of The Month and other goodies, but those that love to badmouth Letterville will always be there. Sometimes it gets personal, and yes, sometimes it does hurt. There is some comfort in knowing that it was Letterville that put these characters together.
I'm wandering off topic. Letterville exists to bring people together. Anytime someone feels bad due to something they read here, we feel bad. The majority of posters are careful to choose words that uplift and/or give hope. Unfortunitly, there are others that love to shoot from the hip, and don't give a rat's ass who they hurt in the process. There are many that will smile and pat you on the back in person, yet take great delight in running you down behind the scenes.
I've been thinking about monsters alot lately. Not the monsters on TV or the movies, but that hidden monstor inside each of us. We all have one.
You will never really know a person until you meet their monster. All of us have met people that we thought we liked and admired until we met their monster. Sometimes that Monster is a hidden addiction, illness, or anger management issue. It's always a shock to see the dark side of a Friend or Relative make their appearence.
I'm trying to discover my own Monster.
[ March 23, 2007, 01:45 AM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Hey Steve,
Its nothing that an occasional....
....can't fix.
.
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Geeze, what I got started. Let me see if I can kinda straighten this out a little. I aint bashing letterville. If it came off that way, it wasnt intended to be that. I wasnt bashing anyone here on the site. Again, if it came off that way, it wasnt intended. A chain of things happened that set me off over the last few days, starting with me posting about my business being bad. I got calls from letterheads about my post, and apparently some emails that I didnt receive. That led to me being questioned on whether I was just huffing off at the mouth, or really being in financial straits. That got under my skin a little.Even though I now know it wasnt intended to do that. I posted a re-do of my website, nobody replied to it, that added fuel to my fire. I changed the topic of the post to "Nuttin Happenin" and it was thought that I still was worried about my business and financial situation. Business had picked up some, so I was feeling better. I only meant that nothing was happening on my post. Thats all. So a chain of little things just kind of set me off, and I was smarting a little over my cd sales here, so I went out on a limb and posted about it. It was never meant to mean that letterville was the cause. The site had nothing to do with it. Barb and Steve have did their best to help and I appreciate it. They do their best all the time to try and help people here. This just all snowballed until it became something I didnt want it too. Ive got a mean temper, although I have never shown it to people on here. Guess I did this time. Sorry about that. My decision to not post anymore wont affect anybody but me. Thats something Ill hash out over time. I really wish you would just close this whole thing Steve and delete it so it can be forgotten.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
JOhn, your vehicles cds look great! I just have no use for that kind of stuff (yet), but it did not occur to me till now to ask you if you would do caricatures on commission/contract. Even if not vectorised, just drawn.
I had two jobs recently that I needed cartoony animals for, and I suck at that, so I got our kids to eventually do them, and they were great, but if I'd had it in my mind that you'd do that, I'd have probably zapped the details straight to you- it's just that I tended to think "vehikles" rather than "great cartoons", which I realise now is wrong.
Also, on Fred's site, you can go to a link and buy vector art, one piece at a time- to me that is more useful, even at a higher pice each, than a bulk lot for $100s, as I don't often need fresh stuff other than what I have.
Would you consider selling an image at a time from the vehikles cd? The mode of thought is that people might frequently buy three, when they started out looking for only one...
Thart's a bit how I buy fonts, except the Signfonts collection is great value and cheap and useful, so the whole lot is an easy ask! I don't mean yours isn't, but I'll go to LHF looking for a specific single font, but buy maybe three or five others while I am at it.
Back to the original query- caricatures to order- would you do it?
This wouldn't be too different from Dan Antonelli or Joe Diaz doing a website to order, or Stevo doing a logo to order- not a mass-production item, but an individual commission.
I hope all goes well for you!
edited to add, I type too slowly, so your above post beat me to it- so please don't stop posting before you answer that query!
[ March 22, 2007, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: Ian Stewart-Koster ]
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Be well, Tater, and best of luck.
Rapid
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
John what Glen Taylor said would be better for me as well.I don't have a colour printer cutter and a lot of your stuff needs this.I will only send money orders to buy anything.I started doing trucks only and these images would work fine.Good luck-Randy
Posted by Nancie W. Phillips (Member # 3484) on :
Hey John... Just keep in mind that you are always welcome here. We're like family (that you choose)... Sometimes we all need a break. We'll keep the "fire stoked" til you get back.
Posted by Robin Sharrard (Member # 388) on :
And don't forget us guy's and maybe gall's that want the whole CD at a decent price, which your's certainly are...like I said in the personal e-mail, your talent is definatly needed and APPRECIATED, just maybe it needs to be a little more flexible...By the way, GREAT LOOKING WEB SITE! Robin
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
Monstor..Canadian for Monster?
Posted by Dusty Campbell (Member # 4601) on :
I was a little offended. I didn't know where it was going, but I tend to not get too offended when people are showing their emotions. I'm glad you've cooled off.
I think you've received some really valuable feedback about the way people want to buy vector art. I don't get much of a call for the style you do, but I do know your CD's exist because you're a merchant here. I let my subscription to Signcraft lapse(Gasp) and haven't gotten around to renewing it (I could have sworn I signed up for 3 years last time around).
Anyway, I'm sure if you ever decide to come back around you'll be greeted with grins.
Until then, can we refer to you as Gone Deaton?
Later Tater.
Posted by Michael R. Bendel (Member # 5847) on :
John... I wish you well.
Telling the site that you are "done" was "done" to get a reaction. You got a darn good one!
Thanks for your explanation of why you made this decision.
I am somewhat new here & didn't really understand your motives for quitting. It's still not crystal clear to me but hey, thanks for being a part of it!
Good luck my friend!
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Wow, I have not been on here to see this. I saw it yesterday & had no time to read them all & comment. John, my heart feels so heavy for you, but there is so much hope!
Nettie is so right, the glass IS half full!
And Jim Donahue has put it all exactly how I feel too. PLEASE don't quit. Please e mail him, ok? I have been where he is, I know what he wants to say, & there is MUCH wisdom & TRUTH in it.
This place would not be the same without you posting! I have always loved your posts & your work!!!!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Really wish you wouldn't leave John....You're one of the reasons I like perusing this site....truly!
Your talent has always been an inspiration to many, including me....and regardless of our sometimes varying outlooks on life...I think (and hope) you know I respect you immensely and would be saddened to see you split....'
The portfolio section wouldn't be the same without you.
[ March 23, 2007, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I think when people show their emotions, it is not to get a reaction. It is more then ever, a more pure communication, dropping the veil of ego, or any desired public persona, & revealing ones true self, flaws and all.
A friend & I were just talking about art & music careers & he mentioned a possible distinction between a performer & an artist, being that a performer may be somewhat more likely to acknowledge the commercial aspects of his art & may be producing or presenting it with that in mind. Creating what sells, with undeniable talent in many cases, but aiming for commercial success. The artist may be creating only to extract the most pure form of communication from the depths or the ethers or wherever that comes from... not for some pre-determined reaction, such as commercial success.
Anyway, the obvious parallel I see is based on my belief that John is not a drama seeking, ego driven performer looking for a specific response. It is my perception that he has emotions & reactions to his current circumstances that have been influenced by his surroundings. Holding those emotions & reactions inside is not always appropriate for self preservation. Blowing off steam is not always appropriate for general public consumption, but among friends & family, it is usually acceptable to be honest, even when it is not pleasant, entertaining or otherwise valuable to the observer.
In most preforming arts venues I'm familiar with, civil society may reward an artists pure expression with heartfelt applause... or if not so inclined... they may not. Booing, however is not a civilized response in my opinion.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
You are right, Doug. And maybe some people on here aren't used to trusting others with their own thoughts & feelings, therefore they cannot accept someone else doing so.
I would rather hear someone being transparent & real than pretending everything is "honky-dory".
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I just can't top the way Raymond put it! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
.....................................................................................................I sold two (2).
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