Just installed Omega 2.5 CP, talk about a clunky enviornment it's like going back in time 10 years! LOL! I'm a Corel Draw and Photoshop guy, so this will be interesting and I'm sure frustrating! I'm sure I'll be posting regularly on the edgetalk forum -- they're gonna hate me!
(sp. edit)
[ June 29, 2006, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: Doug Phillips ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
You need to send an e-mail to Gerber and tell them that. I've been doing it since 1998 when I first got the GA software.
Still, believe it or not, there are those who love it and swear by it. Its OK for its intended purpose, but it could be sooooooooo much more if they were willing to make the effort.
.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
You should have seen the last version. 2.5 is light years ahead of where it was a year ago.
Posted by Doug Phillips (Member # 5708) on :
Glenn, Does Gerber ever implement (sp?) any user suggestions in any upgrades, or would it be a waste of time?
Posted by Doug Phillips (Member # 5708) on :
Chris, That's a scary thought! LOL
Posted by Brian Diver (Member # 1552) on :
The GA software was like going back to DOS and I just coulldn't believe a large company like Gerber could even put that out to people in this day and age. Omega was a major step up in the right direction but still behind the times. I don't plan on upgrading (which means I'm gonna save my $$$) as I do my stuff in Corel & Photoshop and will import it into Omega.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug Phillips: Glenn, Does Gerber ever implement (sp?) any user suggestions in any upgrades, or would it be a waste of time?
Yes, very much so. One of the reasons why Omega now has "Layers" and such is because they listened.
Part of the problem is that there are a lot of users who don't like too many changes at a one time. I know because I've spoken to them. These users get comfortable with what they know.
For example, I hate the way interface design for welding and trimming objects. I also hate the interface for detail editing. I've told them so numerous times. However, Gerber has had several users to tell them how much they like it. So, what does Gerber do?
What it comes down to is that the squeeky wheel gets the grease. If you don't contact Gerber and tell them, they aren't going to know what they can do to improve the program. They're not mind readers.
I'd like to see Gerber incorporate a DCS2 filter into Omega. You know how many people have requested it? One. Me. What are the odds that DCS2 will be incorporated? Not very likely.
However, there have been a lot of requests for "Layers" and the abilty to Powerclip raster images into objects. As a result, Omega 2.5 now has them.
I'd still like to see Omega with a more "interactive" toolbar/interface that is user definable such as in CorelDraw among other things.
If you go to 4Edgetalk.Com, tell Tony Teveris (who I know will listen) about your concerns. He was part of the development team and can provide you with who to contact.
When you do contact them, be specific and be professional. Generalities won't help them as they plan for the next upgrade or version.
BTW, there is more to Omega than meets the eye. There are a lot of features under the surface if you look for them and they're pretty cool.
.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Sorry y'all, I love Omega. Mike Jackson uses it to assemble all his cool clipart. I am not real well versed in Corel, so, that's probably why. I am more likely to use Illustrator than Corel.
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Yea, I like Omega also. When I use corel or adobe to design signs it just seems difficult. Things like outlines and shadows require multi steps.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
quote:Originally posted by Doug Phillips: Does Gerber ever implement (sp?) any user suggestions in any upgrades, or would it be a waste of time?
Absolutely!
At last year's edge meet, I took my logo file cause it just wouldn't work in Omega. The cd went back to Gerber. In 2.5 we now have clipping paths.
Embedding images was a huge complaint last year at the edgemeet. In fact if I remember correctly, we sent Dana back to Gerber with 3 pages of stuff we wanted fixed or added. This year part of the meet was how those to do all the changes that we requested last year.
Be vocal!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
See Doug.
Now you know three people to blame.
.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
I've used Gerber software since way back in the horse and buggy days. Probably what you began with is what is most comfortable.
Omega is what most all of my work is designed in and then I color and use presentation effects in Corel and Photoshop. Omega 2.5 just came in this week and I'm in the process of cleaning out the dead bugs in my Dell before I load it. Actually, I was running Omega on my old 98SE and the new upgrade won't work on it, so it will go on the Dell XP - after some renovation.
Posted by Doug Phillips (Member # 5708) on :
This is gonna be fun! Like I said they're gonna hate me! LOL
After deciding to go with the Versacamm (still looking for best deal) over the Summa DC4, I decided I'll need to have a thermal option as well. With space being a big consideration I'll have to go with the Edge. So clunky or not I need to learn Omega -- just another tool in the belt!
BTW, I'll be looking for a used edge 2 around the first of the year, any place you folks recommend for used?
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Doug you can try ebay or dealers, you won't find many edge 2 users letting them go easily
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Doug,
The two companies I recommend are Advantage and Hyatts.
I just ordered an Edge FX from Hyatts and will be trading in my Edge-2 . My main reason for buying from them is because of how much they have supported 4EdgeTalk.
(Now if we can just get both companies to support this site.)
One thing that may help you in learning how to use the Edge and Omega is if you are familiar with screen printing multiple colors. File structure and object organizing in Omega/Edge is very much like screen printing. You have to think in terms of color sequence, overprinting, underbasing, choking, trapping and so on.
I think with time you'll have a better understanding of why Omega is organized the way that it is.
.
[ June 29, 2006, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Hey I'm still on GA 6.2, and I actually prefer it over Corel for node editing, outlines, and distortions. I'm like Raymond....I usually design in GA then export it to Corel to tart it up for presentation. I'd probably like Omega. love....Jill
Posted by Doug Phillips (Member # 5708) on :
Glenn, Yup, a T-Shirt printer for about 10 years now so I am familiar. Is there a lot of choking and spreading or mainly butt registering?
LOL, I just re-read that last sentence.
Anyway, you know what I'm asking.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Doug,
It really depends on what you are printing. If I do need to trap, I generally don't need any more than a 0.025" trap. If I need to cut a printed outline, I will generally do about a 0.050" bleed.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Doug, since it may not be obvious, I'll note that even though it is an expensive & impressive bit of technology... the inability to consistently get perfect butt registration is one of the major drawbacks to edge printing.
The likelyhood of a thin white (or whatever vinyl color is used) line where two foils meet is so prevelant that I personally have come to accept it on a great deal of jobs. The "need" for trapping then, may be based on your own tolerance for this issue.
I have to agree with the praise for Tony Tevaris and his willingness to listen & respond to user input. I had the pleasure to meet him at this years edgehead meet & one bit of information I want to submit is that the shortcomings or delays in software development, relative to other software companies, has less to do with apathy, & more to do with being outnumbered 10 to 1 (or worse) by companies like Signlab for example... as well as the fact that Gerber is not just a software company & they have to spread their R&D manpower around several hardware offerings as well as software.
With all that said, I would still want to remind you that you are not required to use omega... you could use Signlab or even Flexi instead.
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
I went from using the Gerber 4B to Graphix Advantage 6.2 and the Gerber 4B, now to Omega with the Gerber 4B. Have adobe ai. and I am slowly embarking on learning it, finally, as I have a bit more time these days to read, and I have the manuals. I don't know how to use Corel, and never owned it. How much is the cost of Corel these days? I haven't looked on Ebay, maybe that's a good place? I'm on a tight, tight budget. Which version is the one to buy? I do like Omega, but agree that the toolbars could be a bit more user friendly. Maybe I need to learn Corel, perhaps? (it will be a while before I get the hang of AI. any suggestions would be appreciated. ps. there are no classes for adobe AI or Corel within a hundred miles of here, so I guess I need to depend on learning and asking here?
[ June 30, 2006, 04:18 AM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Gerber has recently come out with a few overview vids but it would be nice if they came out with a comprehensive training DVD.
As for Corel, there is probably no finer training program available than Click-n-Learn.
For Adobe products such as Illustrator and Photoshop, check out TotalTraining.Com.
Also, I agree with Doug about SignLab. The interface is certainly more up to date and has some really cool features such as "Chisel" and the "Perforated Window Wizard" are two of my favorite features. And like with any program, there are pro's and con's but its all in what you are used to.
I think if someone could find a way to combine CorelDraw, SignLab and Omega you would have about a close to the perfect software as one could hope to have.
.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
double post.
[ June 30, 2006, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Doug - as I recall (it's been a little while now since my buddy dumped Gerber and got the Soljet)...it seems like I got rid of the "little white line" by adding a "stroke" to the shape overlapping the second color and assigning it to "overprint."
Isn't that how you get rid of the white line where two colors "butt?" Scratchin' my head trying to remember.
I like Omega for a lot of it's features.....I like the way you can add nodes, erase nodes and I generally like the fillet function for corner rounding....as well as a lot of different things...
But, overall - I think it is very lacking. The absence of traditional layer support was always one of my biggest gripes (does 2.5 now have that?).
The absolute worst is the drawing tools in my opinion.....talk about bizzare!!
I'd always draw everything in either Corel or Illustrator and then import it into Omega....because I thought the drawing function was so prehistorically clunky.
Posted by Jonathan Androsky (Member # 2806) on :
Gerber is ... Ok. I feel that it is overpriced for it's functionality. I also used to be an installer and trainer for Gerber products, so I've been using them a long time.
I haven't moved to Omega 2.x yet so I can't comment on the latest release. But here are my thoughts on 1.6
What Omega does very well is Outline, round corners, make cuttable shadows and set up edge prints. It also integrates easily with most plotters.
Some of the things I have been complaining about for years are:
The inability to LOCK OBJECTS, this is so basic that I can't for the life of me find a reason that it is not in there.
The inability to use layers. I understand this is being addressed.
Retention of Grouping. If you Group two Groups of objects, then select the resulting group and Ungroup it, EVERYTHING in the selection is ungrouped. You lose the original two groups, I HATE this.
The preview display is rotten, it just looks crappy On-Screen.
1.6 Crashes more than almost any software I have ever run.
Gerber's routing software is prehistoric, I don't have many good things to say about it. It is also horribly overpriced.
End of Rant.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Jonathan Locking objects is in there now
I use Omega for most of the stuff I do. It's all in how you use your tools.
"A poor craftsman always blames his tools" is the old saying and holds true. Not to say there aren't better software out there, I'll be the first one to say that there are. But I know this program and I know how to make signs and lettering with it without too many limitations.
[ June 30, 2006, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i think its fine for vector stuff..but for a company that was one of the first to introduce digital printing to the industry it lacks severely. it's pretty bad when another software will run your machine better(signlab). it just killed me that you had to jump thru hoops to make letters have any kind of fill besides gradient. good to see it has better layering capabilities now. i think corel is a very powerful program but it also has issues...like outlines, and now in x3 the interactive shadows puts in tiny black vertical lines...so i have to jump back to 12 when i design with those. nothing is ever easy!
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Yep, locking is there as well as Layers.
I agree about the drawing tools. Some people love them. I hate them.
As for stability, I've not had a single instance of instability since version 2.1. So far, 2.5 has been rock solid.
Anyhow, I know I've already said it but I think it still bears repeating, if there is something you don't like or could be done better, let Gerber know. You won't get it unless you ask.
.
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Have any of you ever even seen MacImprint? If you saw how easy it was to print and cut right from Illustrator you'd all be barraging Gerber with emails to upgrade the dang thing. Heck, most of you are designing in Illustrator already.
It's like you think that Omega is so difficult that it must be better. DUH.
Posted by Tony Teveris (Member # 2911) on :
I hear you ALL. I was waiting for Bill and now I can have a great Holiday, thanks Bill.
[ June 30, 2006, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: Tony Teveris ]
Posted by Jonathan Androsky (Member # 2806) on :
Bob and Glenn: Re. Object Locking. Thank you, that's good to know. I was also aware that many if the instability issues were under heavy investigation. It seems they have been cleared up, that's wonderful.
Everyone, please don't missunderstand, I don't think Omega is a BAD program. I use the hell out of it every day. I was just pointing out a few issues that I have with it. I could do the same for pretty much every software I've ever used (some moreso than others )
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
I was working at a Race Track in PA for their last race (an IRL event) as they were closing down. After the race, the whole setup they had in their sign shop (Dell computer, Scvanner, HP Printer, Gerber EnVision Plotter and a Gerber Edge) was GIVEN to me to take home! FREE!! All I can say is ............ Omega is the worst graphics program (compared to Corel and even the old Casmate)I have ever used!!!!! On a scale of 1 to 10, I'd have a real hard time getting it to a full "1" !
[ June 30, 2006, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Tony Vickio ]
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
I didn't realize Tony T was reading this post, CHOKE & SPREAD It's great to see you on this side CHOKE & SPREAD I have been very CHOKE & SPREAD happy with Omega over the CHOKE & SPREAD years and actually have CHOKE & SPREAD very little items to complain CHOKE & SPREAD about Except one CHOKE & SPREAD I do hope you guys could make the shadow, outline & distortion CHOKE & SPREAD drop down on the tool bars.
Oh did I mention please FIX CHOKE & SPREAD?
[ June 30, 2006, 12:29 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Tony Teveris (Member # 2911) on :
Oh Bob, there goes my weekend. I hear ya.
Posted by Russ McMullin (Member # 5617) on :
I use Omega all the time to cut and print, but I can't design in it to save my life - way too different from what I am used to. I like the fact that it imports the newer Illustrator files now.
Posted by Tracie Johnson (Member # 6117) on :
I worked with Graphix Advantage (and then Omega) for a few years at the last place I worked. The first sign software I started with though was Flexi. When I started with Gerber, it seemed really clunky and frustrating. There were certain things you could do in Flexi that you couldn't do in Gerber. That text box was really frustrating and having to hit a special key to move objects and lots of other "fun" stuff. I now work in Flexi and was soooo glad to be back, or so I thought. I actually found myself missing Omega. The detail editing tools, once you get use to them, are so much easier. I hate that in Flexi you can only see the handles of the particular node you have selected. It makes it almost impossible to make a smooth line. Also in flexi you have to convert things to objects before you can edit them, and every time you weld something, you have to convert it again. I also like the fact that Omega "remembers" every special effect you give an object. Just by double-clicking you can make adjustments. So while it is a bit clunky in ways, I found how to work around that, and became quite comfortable with it. Now that I'm starting my new business (Well, soon I hope.) I've purchased Omega Software, and though it will take a little getting use to again. I'm looking forward to working with it. Now, that being said, there's a lot of room for improvement and it will be nice to see some of the features in other programs incorporated. I will continue to use Photoshop and Corel to supplement its shortcomings.
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