Hopefully I can ask this question without 15 people turning it into a poitical topic.
Why are people raising hell that gas companies made record profits? Or that government isn't stepping in and putting a cap on gas prices?
Am I the only person who thinks that gas companies should charge whatever we're willing to pay them? That's how I keep hearing I'm supposed to be pricing signs. Why shouldn't they make a profit? I promise you, if hell ever freezes over and I'm making $250 million a year making signs I'll be laughing all the way to the bank without a bit of guilt. If you're willing to pay it I'm sure willing to sell it to you. If you think I'm ripping you off then you create a better product and start selling it yourself. For that matter we could all be running methane stills and making bio-deisel in our backyards but I can't think of anyone I know who does, or really cares.
Just my rant, of sorts, for the week.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Currently, "Big Oil" on average makes about 9¢ in profit for every gallon of gasoline sold.
"Big Government" in the US gets about 40¢ on that same gallon.
So, who's really zooming who/whom/whatever?
Something I'd like to know is how many gallons of gasoline are sold worldwide and how much of "Big Oil's" profits in oil are derived from oil-based products other than fuel? Also, how much of the state and federal tax revenue derived from sales of gasoline originally intended for road construction is being diverted to other programs?
.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
No you are not. Granted, personally I felt like I was getting bent over paying $2.99 this morning. But when I hear people whining on tv that the government needs to set limits on the price that can be charged, my business-mind kicks in & I think I'll be damned if I let someone else tell me what kind of profit I can make.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
A person can live without a sign (although a sign person cannot live without selling a sign)....but every aspect of what we embrace as our quality of life is dependent upon energy - most importantly oil.
You said:
quote:Why are people raising hell that gas companies made record profits?
Because the product they (oil companies) sell affects every individuals expendable income. When a persons energy bills rise by 200% or more in a year, yet their pay doesn't increase to offset the increase in their fuel bills, then that means they have to make cuts elsewhere.
Our economy is based upon consumption. Rightly or wrongly. If expendable income is redirected towards increased fuel costs - instead of buying that new television or sign, then the economy suffers. If the economy suffers, inflation results.
Remember the double-digit interest rates when Carter was president? Nobody could afford, or wanted to buy a house. People gave pause before buying the new car....
Oil companies should make a profit.....but should they make enough to pay their outgoing CEO a 400 million retirement bonus not including his regular pension, and his stock options?
Should they make unheard of profit margins on the backs of people struggling to make ends meet?
Should the greed of traders and speculators on Wall Street affect the masses so that a handful can wallow waist deep in greenbacks - with no worry in the world and want of nothing?
Signs are great....but you can hardly compare them to the impact that energy has worldwide on people's very lives.
Edit: I should add....it will be interesting to see how a company views their need for "signs" in the greater scheme of things should gas rise to $4-$5 a gallon this summer, which I believe it will.
[ April 25, 2006, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
question back at ya....WHY IS EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED SO EXPENSIVE? its called DEPENDANCY!!!!! we as a society are totally dependant on the GOVT for one thing or another...and WE LET THESE PEOPLE TAKE OUR MONEY FOR THEIR SERVICES!!! we are dependant on the UTILITIES COMPANIES...so they charge what they can....electric, phone, nat gas, sewage, water, and WE LET THEM!!!! we are dependant on HOSPITIALS AND DOCTORS...so they get all they can.... and guess what....its only gona get worse... ALL YOU REPUBLICANS want less govt, see what you got. ALL US DEMOCRATES want more from our govt...SEE WHAT WE GOT! untill the DEPENDANCY CYCLE is broken(i dont see it happenin in my lifetime)and all the lazy ass people who reside in this country pick up some responsibility for those we put in office, pick up some responsibility for their own health, stayin warm, transportation(sell them hummvees and excursions)get a moped, and a MINI COOPER, get off the electric grid...learn to survive with a little less.....its only gona get worse....
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
Amen to that Mr. Whatley
Where's the widespread news reports about the $.99 1-liter bottles of filtered water...
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Because the product they (oil companies) sell affects every individuals expendable income. When a persons energy bills rise by 200% or more in a year, yet their pay doesn't increase to offset the increase in their fuel bills, then that means they have to make cuts elsewhere.
And, will you base your prices for signs on the customer's financial abilities?
quote:Our economy is based upon consumption. Rightly or wrongly. If expendable income is redirected towards increased fuel costs - instead of buying that new television or sign, then the economy suffers. If the economy suffers, inflation results.
Except, that isn't what is happening. The current core inflation rate is 3.36%. That is a 0.3% drop since the gas spike began. Also, consumer confidence has improved. It is now at a 4 year high.
quote:Remember the double-digit interest rates when Carter was president? Nobody could afford, or wanted to buy a house. People gave pause before buying the new car....
The increase in interest rates was Paul Volker's doing. It was his way of attempting to reduce inflation and slow down the economy although the economic growth was stagnant (i.e. - stagflation). The rise in inflation started before Carter's Administration began. Remember Ford's "WIN" (Whip Inflation Now)? By the 4th quarter of 1979, GDP real growth rate was a negative 2.1%. In 2005, it was a postive 3.5%. Even with the current spike in oil prices, the FDIC still expects the annual real growth GDP to hit at over 4%.
None of the factors that led to the economic fall out between 1978-1979 are present in today's economy.
quote:Oil companies should make a profit.....but should they make enough to pay their outgoing CEO a 400 million retirement bonus not including his regular pension, and his stock options?
Yes.
To those who say "no", who should decide how much is a person's value?
quote:Should they make unheard of profit margins on the backs of people struggling to make ends meet?
Big Oil operates on a 8% margin. How much of a margin do you make? What kind of margins does a grocery store make on food? What kind of margins does JCPenny make on clothing?
quote:Should the greed of traders and speculators on Wall Street affect the masses so that a handful can wallow waist deep in greenbacks - with no worry in the world and want of nothing?
Yep. I'm an investor. Does that automatically make me greedy?
quote:Edit: I should add....it will be interesting to see how a company views their need for "signs" in the greater scheme of things should gas rise to $4-$5 a gallon this summer, which I believe it will.
I doubt it will hit that high this summer. I suspect that it may briefly hit a $3.30 national average around Labor Day.
So, why the big spike in US gas prices?
Well, one is the jump in the Asian demand for oil as their economy continues to grow. China alone had a better than 9% jump in GDP last year. Their demand for oil has doubled in the last five years and is expected to double again in the next five years.
Also, we have Big Government, environmentalists and the ethanol lobby to thank for the newly reformulated gasoline.
And why would ethanol cause the price of gasoine to jump? Well, for one, it can't be piped like gasoline/oil can. It must be brought in by track or truck which is a more expensive way to transport. Secondly, ethanol has about half the energy potential of gasoline. It takes twice as much ethanol to generate as much energy as pure gasoline. As a result, you will see a slight drop in your vehicle's fuel economy as the ratio of ethanol to gasoline is increased. Think about what that means in terms of tax revenue.
(editted for gramatical corrections)
[ April 25, 2006, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Joe,
Moonbats in the belfry. For once, do you think it is possible to stop thinking in terms of GOP vs. Dems. Lets try to keep politics out of the discussion and concentrate on facts.
.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Todd, what in the crap are you talking about? You're making even less sense now than you normally do.
And remember, our gasoline prices are among the lowest in the world...especially when you only count developed countries that have any kind of emissions standards.
Have government price limits every really fixed anything? Best I can tell the only thing they've done is created government sanctioned monopolies.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Glenn -
I've been a Republican all my life...never voted for a Democrat....
But I think you've just convinced me to switch parties (unless Hillary is the option - I'd kill myself before I voted for her)
Regarding China - I consistantly say "Do everything you can to NOT buy Chinese products." There's a case where I'll spend twice as much to buy anything not made in China.
Crooked politicians on the take have allowed the US to have an (approximate) 20+ billion dollar trade deficit with China.
Republicans and Democrats are equally guilty for allowing this to occur.
Oh, and Glenn - the problem with your argument "for" allowing the big oil companies to make whatever profit they can is simply this:
The product they supply is a *life critical* product.
People HAVE to have the product exist. We have no choice but buy the product.
If push came to shove - we could grow our own food, make our own clothing, construct our own shelter.
But we cannot (in a practical sense) produce our own gasoline and heating derivitives.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Patrick - did I ever tell you that I'm a direct descendent of Abraham Lincoln? Hehehehe.
Edit: What's really ironic is you posting about "gas prices and big oil profitability" and thinking that in itself isn't political. Ha.
[ April 25, 2006, 08:05 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
"God is watching me"
CrazyJack
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: But we cannot (in a practical sense) produce our own gasoline and heating derivitives.
Buy an electric car. Grow some trees, buy a woodburner.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
But what exactly makes it okay for us to try to limit the amount of profit Microsoft, WalMart, Exxon or Bob's Sign Emporium can make? If the price is too high, don't buy it. If the company supports China, don't go. There are alternatives to everything, pick one. Your dollar is your vote. Exxon ****ing you off then don't go. Take a little responsibility for yourself.
You can't live without gas, you say. Whose fault is that? The oil company's? It's not crack, it's not addictive, it's just convenient. You can live without it, you've got feet.
And Lincoln...didn't he walk about 50 miles a day, uphill both ways, in the snow, to go to school?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Todd,
Lets say that we make it illegal for a company to give its CEO a $400 million retirement package.
How does that benefit you?
Suppose the CEO returned the package back to the company and instructed them to use it to lower the price of gasoline for one year. How much would the price drop?
Answer: Less than 1/10th of a penny.
Whoopie. We've stuck it to the Man. We can all sleep better tonight.
And while the world's economy is based on oil, it is not "life critical". I think a more appropriate term would be "life style critical".
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by jack wills: "God is watching me"
CrazyJack
Yeah, but you did it anyways didn't ya.
.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: The product they supply is a *life critical* product.
People HAVE to have the product exist. We have no choice but buy the product.
Sorry Todd.
People were able to survive just fine without gasoline on every corner back in the past. Yes maybe they needed to trailer a pooper scooper but they managed.
Today we have smooth roads, sidewalks, really good bicycles and skates so comfortable you can spend hours in 'em.
The only difference between now and then: we've got a LOT more lazy people now! Ironically, we have every modern convenience to "make life simpler" yet it's only gotten more complicated and people still don't have the time to spend where it counts - with each other. All they have time for is complaining about gas prices.
Yeah it sucks that the prices are going up but it's the idiots in SUV's bumrushing the pumps every time it jumps 2 cents that's making the price go up even higher, as if hoarding 15 gallons of gas is going to save them a lot of money in the near future.
People in my town complain about the gas prices and I just laugh at them and say "Get yer head outta your butt! This town is only 8 miles long. How much could you possibly spend in a week going to and from work, $20? Can't afford it? Get a bike!" - Makes me pretty unpopular around here but hey, it's not like we have to commute 90 miles a day, which brings me to another point....
Commuters... well sucks to be you but if it really hurt ya that bad you should have thought about that before you decided to build your 3,000 sq ft house in the suburbs 30 miles away from where you work. Idiots.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Hey! lay off OP, he's makin' ALOT of sense
Some random thoughts:
When has government every relinquished power once they have it? A 'crisis' arises, some alphabet agency is created, and even if the crisis goes away, the agency doesn't. It may get folded into some other agency, but it doesn't just go away.Be very careful about empowering government
Maybe a rise in fuel prices will further research into alternate methods. I wasn't around at the time, but it seems as though the switch from coal to other forms of energy came about without government regulation.
Maybe it will spur creativity on people's parts. My furthest local supplier is about 15-20 miles away. I've been toying with the idea of a Wednesday morning route. I go in that direction, to buy supplies, and also have a small package delivery service. I hand out flyers for my business, meet other business people, get paid for the trip, and have my transportation costs covered. I've been getting more into paid recycling as time goes by. I have containers outside with stuff in them. I don't go out of my way to get stuff, but it seems as though I'm always finding a nice piece of aluminum or steel laying around. Other stuff too. I put the pieces in the areas, till I have a load, and take it in. Last year, beacause one client was in a hurry, and tossed a BUNCH of really nice aluminum and copper cable pieces, one SMALL truck load netted $300. Granted that's the exeption, not the rule, I'm just thinking that's another thing I could pick up on my route. People toss stuff. Last year, most of our daytime heat came from smashed wood palletes. Didn't pay a cent for any of it. All comes from business loacations. Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Pat..I agree with you.
Nobody tells me what my prices or profit margins should or can be.
I like it that way.
If fuel price increases were going to affect whether I was going to make a decent living or not...I would DEFINITLY consider finding a more lucrative way of doing so.
Since I live in Canada, I really couldn't care less about "Democrats" or "Republicans"..they are only political parteeees
If you want to cart around 4x8 signs on your skateboards..good for you
If you want to rollerblade 60 miles to do a $500 boat lettering job..good for you
If you want to chop wood in the spring, to let it dry for next winter's heating..good for you
If you just want to bitch about political party stuff..good for you
If you want to get on with earning a living..quit spending time worrying and complaining. Get out there and do what you have to do to earn a decent living.
Just my humble opinion..
Edited to say..this reply is NOT a slam against anyone at all...just a general statement of my feelings about the business
[ April 26, 2006, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: Dave Grundy ]
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
"Moonbats in the belfry. For once, do you think it is possible to stop thinking in terms of GOP vs. Dems. Lets try to keep politics out of the discussion and concentrate on facts." AGAIN GLENN..YOU DONT READ.....all..... only see what you want.... DEPENDANCY...was the crux of my statement....and the rep/demo remark still is true....like the republicans have DOWNSIZED GOVT? you belive that and ill VOTE REPUBLICAN... democrats want GOVT TO SERVE THE PEOPLE....we dont have that either.... so this got nothing to do with either party....DUH!!!!!!! cause neither is doing their job.........
[ April 26, 2006, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
In 1957 gasoline was 29¢ per gallon! Average wage was around $1 per hour! We got along just fine.
Average wage is now about $12 per hour ...translates to about $3.50 per gallon for the equivalent.
Seems that we just got used to cheap gasoline prices.
[ April 26, 2006, 02:37 AM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by old paint: "Moonbats in the belfry. For once, do you think it is possible to stop thinking in terms of GOP vs. Dems. Lets try to keep politics out of the discussion and concentrate on facts." AGAIN GLENN..YOU DONT READ.....all..... only see what you want.... DEPENDANCY...was the crux of my statement....and the rep/demo remark still is true....like the republicans have DOWNSIZED GOVT? you belive that and ill VOTE REPUBLICAN... democrats want GOVT TO SERVE THE PEOPLE....we dont have that either.... so this got nothing to do with either party....DUH!!!!!!! cause neither is doing their job.........
OP, I read a great deal more than you imagine. Trust me on that. Now, do us all a favor and try to leave the politics out. How much the GOP and Dems spend has nothing to do with the topic of discussion. If you want to discuss politics and see who can wag the finger the most, pick a more appropriate bulletin board and I'll debate you. Just be sure to bring your facts with you and leave the tin foil hat at home. Otherwise, stay home and let the adults keep talking please.
.
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Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Si Allen: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!
In 1957 gasoline was 29¢ per gallon! Average wage was around $1 per hour! We got along just fine.
Average wage is now about $12 per hour ...translates to about $3.50 per gallon for the equivalent.
Seems that we just got used to cheap gasoline prices.
You nailed it, Si. Lets also remember that during that time, the price of a gallon of oil was $3.00 a barrel. If you get 19 gallons of gasoline out of a 42 gallon barrel, it seems to me that somebody was making a pretty darn good profit somewhere along the line with gasoline at 29¢ per gallon.
OK, its 5am and I'm a little bored right now, so just for the heck of it.....
I think that if prices would just stablize, regardless of the price, there would be a lot less angst. People are getting motion sickness with the way prices have been bouncing these past couple of years.
.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
You know what's really ironic?
The same people defending Big Oil's right to make whatever profit they want, are the same people bitching about WalMart's practice of doing the same.
My inlaws were in Bullhead City all winter. They said gas never varied more than 2 cents per gallong from one week to the next for over 3 months.
Yet, gas in my neck of the woods varied upwards of 20+ cents per gallon from week to week because of excuses over the Iran issue, or the nutjob in Venzuela. Now, why would these things drive prices up here and not there?
And why do they raise prices on gas that's already in the storage tanks at stations when one of these lame excuses pop up?
The defenders here are by and large 1 man/woman shops. I wonder if you were a larger small business with several employees and a fleet of vehicles to gas if you'd have a different take?
Yeah, I know - - "I'd just raise my prices to offset the difference." And that makes sense....to a degree.
But here's an example: I was talking to a friend of mine that runs a pretty successful plumbing business. He has several employees. His gas bill was $3k last month.
I asked him, "Well, you must raise the quotes on your bids to compensate right?"
His reply was, "No, I can't because competition is so tight out there, and building is cooling off...so everyone is trying to keep it as lean as they can. If I up'd my price to cover all my fuel related costs on new bids - I'd never get a job. Copper just went up 48 cents a linear foot too."
So, maybe in your small little world of sole proprietorships (or close to it) you can skoff at the effects of high gas prices, but don't be complaining when everything you buy for your business goes up in price, that new shop/pole barn you were going to build just increased out of reach, and your supplier just added a 10 % increase on everything.
And ask a trucker the consequences of high fuel prices on his pocketbook - and the resulting consequences tothe public.
The notion that someone CAN or SHOULD move closer to town, chop wood for heat, ride a horse to work, or buy an electric car in this modern world is arrogant and nonsense.
Do a search, and see how many people here have complained about the price of some sign related material. There's more than a few.
If oil prices don't affect the economy, then why is Bush making adjustments in policy to try and ease the burden on Americans? Politics? I don't think so. This is his last term, and his approval ratings could barely get any lower....so what does he care if gas goes up to $5 a gallon?
I'm 100% for building more refineries NOW....and for opening up drilling in Alaska NOW...and anything else that would make us less dependent upon those freakin nutjobs in the Mideast.
Why aren't we doing it?!
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Todd, the reason gas stations raise the price on gas already in storage is the same reason we raise the price on MDO we've already got. REPLACEMENT COST.
Did you know that 92% of the gas stations in this country are owned by individuals who own three stations or less? With most selling gas at 8-10 cents above cost they have to raise the price as soon as they know the next load they order will cost more. If they don't most of them won't be able to afford to refill their storage tanks. Most of the smaller stores actually lose money on gasoline, it's just a way to get you into the store to buy Twinkies and bottle of Boone's Farm.
Also, if you'd actually read my latest post up there I did defend Wal-Mart and anybody else's ability to make a profit.
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Milk=$4.79 gal. Orange juice=$5.23 gal. Gas=$4.75 gal. in Canada.If people really cared they wouldn't keep buying or making Suv's and pick-ups with 8 cylinders and Hemis.
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
This is not an exact quote, but I remember reading something Ben Franklin said once. I think it's something like this:
Every American not only has the right but the duty to overthrow a government that is not run by the people.
Plain and simple, the American people need to take charge of their own lives and take care of America.
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
With his approval.
CrazyJack
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kelsey Dum: Every American not only has the right but the duty to overthrow a government that is not run by the people.
As soon Todd get's himself elected to the city council y'all just give me a call.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Sorry, I don't buy the replacement cost theory.
Most gas stations receive at least one delivery from a tanker per day. And the gas they are receiving is gas that was already refined before any price increase per barrel of crude is announced.
They turn over gas fast enough that they can pay any delivery increase within a day....because that delivered fuel will be gone in a day, and it's profits in the till.
It's nothing more than a way to scam consumers.
I don't charge customer A an increase in a sign just because I know that MDO is going up next week. I charge based upon the cost of materials at the time they are ordered.
Customer B will pay more for next weeks sign because MDO went up.....and that to me seems the fair thing to do.
I have a difficult time feeling sorry for Exxon when they are posting record profits, while the average Joe is losing it from their paychecks to make their retirement package 400 million greater.
Basketball players and Oil execs are two different animals.
You can quite easily choose not to buy a Nike shoe or go to a pro game - that has no impact on your standard of living.
You DO HAVE to buy gas. It's like somebody saying "Ok, we're going to start taxing the air you breathe."
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Well, I was going to stay out of this, but just can't. From today on out, I'm only buying my gasoline from Small Oil. Big Oil can get their money elsewhere!
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Don, I am with you. Pass along the "Small Oil" list to me, will you please? I misplaced mine.
Some of you people crack me up. Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:You can't live without gas, you say. Whose fault is that? The oil company's? It's not crack, it's not addictive, it's just convenient. You can live without it, you've got feet.
Hahaha...wow. That's realistic now isn't it? How much walking would you be willing to do to CONSERVE fuel? Something tells me walking isn't something you'd give much consideration towards in any event.
And if I ever get elected to city council? Bring it on....us Northerners have a pretty good track record as I recall.
In one breath, you say that Gas stations rely on their convenience stores to make the bulk of their profits and in the next you say that they have to raise gas prices immediately or they cannot afford to buy the next tankerfull.
Well, if their profits come strictly from the convenience store, it seems they would have money to add to the pennies per gallon increase, and buy gas out of those profits.....and recoup that money as it's sold off at a higher price the following day. So...which is it?
Glenn - I missed your CEO post....
The point is not how would it benefit me personally.....the point is the blatant arrogance of how the oil companies rip people off in general.
They know we HAVE to HAVE gas....and gas IS life critical. What do ambulances run on? Or Police cars? Or rescue Helicopters? Or Fire engines? Yeah, I suppose firemen should walk to a fire?
Increases in emergency services, and state and federal operating budgets come from somewhere....and that's the taxpayer. That affects a person's life.
People rely upon gas to get to work. If the burden becomes to great, they'll have difficulty paying for food, shelter, etc. It is life critical....and to say it's not in our society is really outrageous.
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
Don,
And then, there's "BIG CORN" on the way. Right now........"little weed" works just fine in my tank.
CrazyJack
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
so this got nothing to do with either party....DUH!!!!!!! READ THIS AGAIN GLENN...... or get youre eyes examined ..old man....boy talk about hard headed people
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
"Small Oil" and "Little Weed"...... !
Todd,
In reference to what you said about paying higher prices for gasoline that was already in the distributor's storage tank, I asked a local gas distributor about that last August.
He said the reason for that is to help offset the loss when prices go down. Every so many days, he receives a new delivery and he has to pay the market price. If the price drops after delivery, as it did in the fall of 2005 after the spike, they have to take a loss on the higher priced fuel already in storage.
I spoke to him again a few weeks ago and he said that the higher priced gas is actually hurting his business. He's making less net profit because people have cut back on their driving.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Bruce:
How about Big Chinese? Say 1:00? I'll be there. Leave your wallet at home, Dude.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Well while we're at it, let's throw the water bottling companies under the bus too.
How dare they make 2,000% profit on something so essential to survival as water!
Todd, it's a matter of scale. Company A may have a fleet and several employees while Company B may be a sole proprietor but that doesn't really affect the outcome. Company A may have higher costs but also has more income to make up for it. Company A likely spends the same percentage that Company B would. Company A wouldn't have expanded into what it is without the volume and market to support it but now Company A also has higher "fixed" costs (no such thing as a fixed cost, really) which makes it harder for them to react to market changes.
Should Company A suffer because of higher gas prices? No, but if they do it's completely their own doing. If they can't cut expenses elsewhere they could react to the market, reduce costs, sell vehicles, let employees go. Make the company leaner and faster to change. Hey, these fortune 500 companies are always letting people go. If a company that makes millions in profit every year has to cut employees to stay afloat, why does anyone think their job is secure with a smaller operation of 10, 20, 30 employees?
People need to take responsibility for themselves and quit looking to someone else or the government every time the road gets rough. Yeah, the Pres might make some consessions to try and lower gas prices but whatever he does, it's only temporary. Somewhere down the line whatever moves they make will have to be overcorrected, probably in the form of increased taxes, because the difference HAS to be made up somewhere. When roads go unrepaired or highway expansions don't happen because of temporary decreased funding through taxation, congestion will be even worse. Who will people blame then? Certainly not themselves, oh no. First the people blame the gov't for the prices so the gov't lowers them.. then the roads go to hell then the people blame the gov't for that.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -- Ronald Reagan (1986)
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Hope you hit em hard for it, Did you get em good?, Not enough, charge them more. These are all recent comments from recent on our prices. What's the difference other than it's those guys.
Rick, did you see the latest prices for Chinese?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Glenn - that distributor's explanation would make sense to me, actually, as you describe it....except for this: When oil prices go up and gas takes a jump - it is immediate and large....when the price of oil goes down, gas prices go down slowly and a little at a time.
I guarantee you that if oil today was, say, $75 a barrel and it fell tomorrow to $67....the price wouldn't go down nearly as quickly or reflect as large a decrease as if the scenario was reversed.
Plus I would bet that your local distributor has a reasonably good pulse on market forcasting and he would buy cheap and fill his storage tanks to capacity when the price was low and hold out as long as he could as prices rise before replentishing his supply.
He knows how much fuel his storage tanks output in a given week/month. I don't believe they are quite as "at the mercy" of their suppliers as he might suggest.
It's a little like asking the Fox what happened in the henhouse....don't you think?
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Sure is Todd...if you see Government as the fox and private enterprise as the chickens.
Actually Todd, I lived about 6 months without buying gas. I rode my bike or walked to work everyday. Granted, I didn't live but a mile from the shop. But you know, I live five miles from it now, and if gas gets too high I'll dust off the Cannondale and ride it again. Right now I'll pay the $3.00 a gallon convenience charge. If Exxon wants to make 8 cents profit per gallon off me being to lazy to ride my bike to work why should the government be there to stop them? I'm too lazy to haul my own garbage to the dump and I'm pretty sure the government isn't telling the dumpster company they have to lower their prices for it.
Gas is not life critical. Trust me, I've never run out of gas in my truck and thought "****, if I don't get to a gas station quick I'll die!" I have pushed it up the road and thought I'd die from embarassment, maybe that's what you meant.
By the way Todd, I'm pretty sure that the revolution won't be a North vs. South thing. I'm thinking a whole different kind of division...lol.
[ April 26, 2006, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by old paint: so this got nothing to do with either party....DUH!!!!!!! READ THIS AGAIN GLENN...... or get youre eyes examined ..old man....boy talk about hard headed people
OP,
I have read it and you have convinced me beyond a doubt of your economic illiteracy. Perhaps you can educate us on last year's energy bill; its connection to farmers; who authored it; and, who pushed it.
Next, who filibustered the bill in the Senate to open ANWR?
Who in Congress required the use of MTBE in gasoline and then who said Big Oil should be sued for using it?
Who required that different formulations of gasoline be used to help fight regional air polution even though doing so pushed up the price of gas with no evidence that the reformulations worked in the first place?
Here's a primer for you on why gasoline prices have jumped so high.
First, you must understand that oil is a product whose price is set by the global commodities market, and the price fluctuates every day. Worldwide demand for oil is skyrocketing due to increased economic growth in developing nations, particularly India and China. India’s annual growth rate is 7 percent; China is growing at 9 percent annually. Each country has over a billion people.
Secondly, U.S. oil refineries presently are not operating at full capacity. Not all of the Gulf Coast refineries damaged by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita are fully operational, but should be back online in a few more months. Also, many of refineries in the Gulf are undergoing routine maintenance that was either scheduled for this spring or put off following the hurricanes to keep the nation supplied with as much gas as possible during that critical time.
Third, contributing to increased oil and gas prices is market uncertainty, caused by the silly rhetoric from Iranian President Ahmadinejad and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. Then there are the militant attacks by the Ijaw tribe in Niger.
Now, you tell me how you would fix these things since you know so much.
.
Posted by Steve Purcell (Member # 1140) on :
$3.00 gas still seems pretty reasonable to me.
Frankly, I'm a lot more p.o.'d about $5.00 for a box of cereal... Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Glenn, buddy, calm down.
Proving something about politics on a post on a sign website ain't that important.
It's not life critical, like gasoline. Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
You guys get to work now! Too much time spent here on nothin'. I'm gonna have to borrow some money for gas from ya later on. So get back to work an' quit jawwn'.
CrazyJack
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
quote:Originally posted by Steve Purcell: Frankly, I'm a lot more p.o.'d about $5.00 for a box of cereal...
Priceless Dude!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Steve - you go through 20 boxes of cereal a week? Maybe Kennedy needs to rethink those offshore windmills....hehehehe.
I'll tell you what's life critical: Sex. If man cannot afford to drive to Walmart 20 miles from his house and buy condoms.....this country is going to have problems like we've never seen before.
Glenn - It's obvious you are more studied than most on such matters. And that I will concede. But if you think there isn't widespread corruption, greed, and gouging going on in the oil industry...you need to turn the page and keep reading.
It even goes on at the local level. There is a "club" here where I live that all the stations within a given area belong. They have banded together and they all raise their prices to the same amount on the same day each week (Thursday, because that's the day of and day before the State employees and GM employees get paid) and then lower it back down on Tuesday.
A few of the smaller outlying towns aren't in the "club" and they are often a nickel to sometimes 15 cents a gallon cheaper.
Although that is tightening up now too....they may be forming their own "club."
However, I have discovered a new source of energy that if exploitable and refined could solve our energy problems. I'm going to call it LBS....Letterville Bull $heet.
I alone contribute enough to help solve our energy woes....and with the 2 or 3 other windbags in this post - we could all become millionaires overnight.
what do you say? Let's see if this can be converted into a viable energy source. Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
Glenn...I don't know what anything you've said means, but it sure is impressive.
One thing I don't understand is how this could be a political party issue when the problem is world wide. Surely, the democrats or the republicans don't control the whole world.
There is one thing that I DO know and that is...the problem is still going to be there no matter what I think about it.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Todd, I just remembered that Bullhead City comment. Give them another call and ask about gas prices now, you'll get a very different story. Through the winter the gas prices did stabilize but we're in boating season now so the prices will now jump 6 cents every Thursday or Friday, then drop 3 cents on Monday.
The gas prices certainly are not stopping people from bringing their boats out to play.. then again, when they all live in California, have a $300,000 summer home in the desert, drive a $70,000 SUV to tow a $400,000 powerboat which will consume $2,000 in fuel over the weekend, they're not worried about it.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Todd....I hate to disillusion you, but....the guy in the gas station does not stock up anticipating a jump in price! The gasoline in his tanks is not his! (Unless he is an independant.)It belongs to the rfinery, and is there on consignment.
If he has the new pumps that take credit or debit cards, he doesn't even control the prices. It is all done by sattelite link, and controlled by the mainframe computer, at the oil company. The average gas tation is making a whopping 6¢ per gallon! Then figure in $3000 to $6000 per month rent, and all the other overhead...no one is getting rich.
How do I know all this? I have a cousin that runs one and many customers that I service.
[ April 26, 2006, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Chapman:
Surely, the democrats or the republicans don't control the whole world.
Raymond, Raymond, Raymond...don't you know that the entire world is controlled by the Illuminati, who are in turn controlled by the shape-shifting lizard men. It's true, you can find out all about it on the same sites Todds been gathering the rest of his "facts" from.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
GLENN YOU STILL DIDNT READ IT RIGHT...1 more time..."this got nothing to do with either party"!!!!!! thats what i said....i dont know what the reason is for youre rant....youre confussed ...........as for someone bein not to intelligent here......it aint me.....but keep goin glenn....maybe you can take scott meclands place......hehehehehehehehehe
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Patrick Whatley:
quote:Originally posted by Raymond Chapman:
]
Raymond, Raymond, Raymond...don't you know that the entire world is controlled by the Illuminati, who are in turn controlled by the shape-shifting lizard men.
Oh no, not another one that believes Earth has a hollow core.. Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
"as for someone bein not to intelligent here......it aint me"
Of course not, OP...what would give us that idea?
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
OP,
The problem is that on the domestic level, I beg to differ.
Without naming names here on the BB, ask yourself the following.....
Which has been opposed to building new refineries on US soil?
Which has been opposed to drilling for oil on US soil?
Which has been opposed to off-shore drilling off the coasts of California, North Carolina and the Gulf of Mexico?
Which has successfully filibustered a bill in the Senate thereby preventing the drilling in ANWR?
Which has lobbied and successfully mandated increased use of ethanol - a more expensive, less effective transportation fuel additive?
Which originally mandated the use of MTBE as an additive in gasoline and now has suggested that the oil industry be sued for using it as required?
Which has historically opposed a temporary reduction in the federal gas tax as a means of lessoning the burden?
Posted by Tracie Johnson (Member # 6117) on :
So much for the post not turning political, huh?
Don, I'd like some more info on buying "Small Oil" too. That's the ticket! If enough people stop buying from Exxon/Mobile, their prices have to come down; it's a supply and demand thing.
Now what really bugs me is I just bought a 2002 Dodge Caravan that will run on ethanol which I think is really cool. The problem? No Ethanol! Not a drop to be found around these parts, at least not in California. I think there's one station in San Francisco and one in San Diego, only they don't sell to the public. What's up with that?
Posted by jake snow (Member # 5889) on :
I didn't take the time to read every ones post. This is just to funny. We can bitch all we want. Blame this and blame them, but in the end your bitchin at the pump while you fuel up. If you really think you can make a difference, buy a horse and buggy. Or a bike. If not, you can bitch until your blue in the face and until the powers that be can't make money off of oil we are buying' for our rides, they aint gonna get back to what it was.
The world sucks, get used to it. Or become a world saver. Last one I heard of was Jesus....
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
One point of clarification Si:
I was talking about the distributors stocking up...not the gas stations....in rebuttal to Glenn. Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
here's the way I figger' on this deal from all sides.......... If ya have to put a silk dress, some lace and a gob of eye shadow on a pig, at the end of the day this content is still a pig. Way too much info about nuthin' when it's simply about a case of counting the chickens before they hatch.
Futures Brokers, period........... The corp, sells to itself from initial purchase of oil at the crude end, the corp then refines, then sells itself the end product, the corp then puts it on the market, (futures) buyers go nuts and then corp sells to end user thru gas station. There is about 4 or more spikes before it hits the gas tank. It's still a Pig. You still pay, so shut up.
CrazyJack
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: A few of the smaller outlying towns aren't in the "club" and they are often a nickel to sometimes 15 cents a gallon cheaper.
That's not a "club". It's attributable simply to the difference in local gas taxes. For example, Ft.Myers is ALWAYS 15¢ higher than St.Petersburg. Always. Because of a 15¢ difference in local gasoline tax.
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
In NJ, gas stations must charge at least as much as they paid for their last delivery. Its the law.
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Start a post bitching about bitching and it trails off into more bitching ... gee, go figure
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Aint it a Bitch?
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Ro, did you just call the Majik Man a bitch?!?!?! Now, THAT'S a bitch! Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Oh good grief. Leave the President's dog out of this.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
buncha bastages in this town... Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
glenn...YOU ARE THE ONE BRINGING IN POLITICS..SO.. YOU BELIVE MR. 32% JOB APPROVAL IS doing a better job then all who opposed all the things you listed? hahahahahahahahahahaha yep youre ready to take scott meclanands job....defending total incompetence....i could list all the DUMB THINGS that SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN DONE...maybe we would be in a better place to deal with the ones we need to.....DUH!!!!!!!you voted for all hes done .....I DIDNT!!! iam done.
[ April 27, 2006, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
i think its like everything else in the us....corruption. someone is gettting their pockets fed. i think alot of people are getting their pockets fed. the world is going to hell in a ahand basket.
well thats my cheery thought for the day
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by old paint: glenn...YOU ARE THE ONE BRINGING IN POLITICS..SO.. YOU BELIVE MR. 32% JOB APPROVAL IS doing a better job then all who opposed all the things you listed? hahahahahahahahahahaha yep youre ready to take scott meclanands job....defending total incompetence....i could list all the DUMB THINGS that SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN DONE...maybe we would be in a better place to deal with the ones we need to.....DUH!!!!!!!you voted for all hes done .....I DIDNT!!! iam done.
OP,
There are two arena's at play where the price of fuel is concerned - Domestic and International.
There is little that we can do on the International level as long as oil prices continue to be subject to market forces which is as it should be.
On the Domestic level, there is a lot that can be done. Unfortunately, it has a lot more to do with politics than reality. Poll numbers are what they are. So are principles. What bothers me is the lack of people's knowledge of how things work. And unfortunately, we have politicians willing to take advantage of that.
Lets go back to Patrick's original comment about the CEO getting a $400m retirement package. An idiot (politician) from California suggested last night that a 50% windfall profits tax be imposed on him. Well, excuse me but the CEO is already going to be paying over 40% in taxes so what is the idiot whining about?
Anytime someone gets more than another person think he deserves there is always someone demanding something be done about it.
The reason why we are paying such high prices in gasoline is because we refuse to let capitalism and free enterprise reign. Sure, we pay lip service to it but we don't really mean it. If we did, we wouldn't begrudge the CEO for what he got.
Then we whine about how much profit the oil companies make. Have you or anyone else thought about the profit the government is making on oil? Government makes nearly 4 times as much profit! Why aren't we protesting about that?
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Here is a "visual" to grasp the enormity of the money that is being made and spent. It will help you wrap your brain around the figures for the quarterly profits about to be released today for the Oil companies.
Remember it also when you try to grasp how much of our money has gone and will go to the war in Iraq.
If a dollar were a second then 1 million would be 11.6 days 1 billion would be 31.7 years and one trillion 16.8 centuries.
Look at the national debt as of last night: $ 8 363 547 954 276,35 - that's 8 trillion, and it increases at 2.06 billion a day.
Sobering, and most definitely political, unless nobody we elected is watching or responsible for anything. =============================== I second Joe's motion for Glenn becoming the White House Press Secretary, I laughed out loud about it because it had occurred to me as well. No way, even with all the preparation and practice he had at Fox news, could Tony Snow do half the job that could be done by our own Glenn Taylor.
Maybe next time. We still have 1000 days til regime change, as of today. ==============================
(It's possible that I am a day, a dollar, a second or a million off in my figures. Everything is fluid. The meat of what I am saying is still rancid. So don't flame me over trivia or get persomal to make it smell better, it won't work)
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
I admit to not reading the majority of this thread - hell, I know most of you well enough to know your POV, and most of this is just the same-old same-old.
Look. It's like this. If gas had risen 15 to 20 cents a year for the past ten years - a few cents a month - it would be four bucks a gallon by now with nobody hollering, because it's STILL cheaper than what most of the world pays.
That, and there's a big upside to this that no one ever mentions. When prices get this high, a lot of clever people start thinking about how to make a buck by coming up with alternate sources. Notice I didn't say "thinking about how to save humanity/the planet/etc", I said "make a buck". Because whether you and your political beliefs like it or not, the only way we are not dependent on petroleum is if somebody, somewhere, figures out how to make a profit on something other means of making things go.
Don't expect the corporate flacks at the oil companies or the guvmint slugwads to do it - the really bright, creative, risk-taking people it takes to change the world aren't working there, and never will. As soon as another source of motive power becomes cheaper and more reliable than petroleum, oil will be done for, and the only people looking back will be the dopes that didn't see it coming.
As for who is making obscene profits now, I could give a rat's a$$. Lot's of people might think making $1200 for four hours work (which I did yesterday - by hand lettering) is obscene profit, too. Come around and tell me I can't, and all you will get is a war. Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
WHY HAVE YOU MORONS GOTTEN THIS SO FAR OFF TRACK YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE WHERE YOU STARTED?!
Come on, is there nothing out there that makes you happy Glenn? Why the hell are you in here preaching with four page long piles of crap that nobody is going to read? You want me to go copy and paste the Monroe Doctrine for you? OP I understand because I think half of what he posts is just poking at you with a stick to see what kind or rant you'll offer up next.
Then Myra, for some reason you felt the need to drag the defecit and the war in Iraq into what was started off as a discussion about whether a company should have the right to make a profit. And to bring up a comment about how much the war is costing but only offer up figures about something else entirely is ridiculous.
The very fact this thing has made it over 70 posts is bad enough, but hey, lets all turn it into a political football and see how high we can get! Ready, here we go...George Bush is actually shape shifting alien who's not a Christian, he's secretly the child of Muslim and Jewish parents, who firmly believes that we should be a socialist country and that it's his Buddah given right to lead the charge against the evil democrats all while raping us for all the tax dollars he can collect and funnel to Halliburton. There you go, have at it.
Amen.
Edited to say: Thanks Cam, that's what I hoped this was gonna be a discussion of.
[ April 27, 2006, 08:58 AM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Myra - I agree about the War in Iraq costing too much.
Here's how it should have gone:
Day 1 of conflict - US drops 3 well placed hydrogen bombs on Iraq. No more Iraqi's. We take over their oil.
Day 2 of conflict - Iran, Syria, etc all call for Holy Jihad against the US and it's allies.
Day 3 of conflict - US drops 20 Hydrogen bombs on the rest of those Bastids. No more overseas whackos. Again, we take over their oil.
Day 4 of conflict - Whacko imigrants domestically begin ranting and raving and declare holy domestic terror.
Day 5 of conflict- Every red blooded american grabs their AR-15 off the rack above their fireplace and seek out the bastids. (you do have an AR_15 handy right? If not-shame on you.) The peaceful ones are sent to Mexico....the rest, well....you know the rest of the story.
Problem solved in less than one work week.
We have the oil, and I am pleased as punch to pay 28 cents per gallon of gas for the next 50 years.
If you reply to this in complete outrage - your chain has been effectively yanked. My job is done.
And let me call myself a Moron before you do....sorry to assurp your satisfaction.
What does this post have to do with making signs anyway? Now let's all get back to using our talents to make signs.
I've solved the oil/gas problem. No animals were hurt. We can all settle down and focus on that funny squeel our cheap plotters are making. Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Patrick:
Good points - yet-
I am of a mind to think that the war, (many think it was started to secure a source of oil for our dependency), the difficulty in paying for a tank of gas right now which prompted your post, and the deficit (partly made up of the two billion or so we spend a week on this war)
are related.
I'm sorry I did not make that clear.
And Todd: YO! I'm proud of you. You thought this thing through. Goforitalready.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
just be glad your car doesn't run on "Aftershave" or worse...Perfume!
Posted by Brian Snyder (Member # 41) on :
quote:Originally posted by Patrick Whatley: WHY HAVE YOU MORONS GOTTEN THIS SO FAR OFF TRACK YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE WHERE YOU STARTED?!
You started the thread...so I guess you feel you're the only one who's allowed to stand on the soapbox? Everyone here has just as much right to express their thoughts and opinions.
Name calling ("morons") works great too...help others realize the level of education and professionalism the writer is working with.
Glenn- Keep posting those 4 page long piles... some of us do read them.
[ April 27, 2006, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Brian Snyder ]
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
This is such a funny thread. In the time it took me to read it, I made a $hit load of money. I can pay for my gas even if it goes up to $10.00 gal.
Who gives a rats a$$ how much money everyone else makes. People should mind their own business when it comes to other peoples money. We live in the land of opportunity to make as much as we want. Im here for the money and little else. You're either in the top 20% with all the money or the bottom 80% wishing you had the 20% money. I plan to be in the 20% if I can help it. I'm no hipocryte nor do I care what anybody else really thinks.
You people get so bent out of shape pretty easy. What really amazes me is why Steve hasnt locked this puppy away. Its the same old rhetoric as before.
[ April 27, 2006, 12:36 PM: Message edited by: Bob Stephens ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
You're right Brian, I probably shouldn't have said moron. I just get annoyed that the same 6 people turn everything they discuss into some political conspiracy/religious/****ing contest.
I did start a post about capitalism and free market economics. I also asked in the very first line to not discuss the political side of it. Anyone is welcome to stand on their soapbox as far as I'm concerned. This particular soapbox had PROFITS painted on the front of it.
Now I'm off to more important things...like my 11:30 tee time...err....sign installation I've gotta go do.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by Patrick Whatley:
Come on, is there nothing out there that makes you happy Glenn?
Actually, I'm one of the happiest most upbeat people you'll ever meet. But, a good steak would make me happier at the moment.
quote:Why the hell are you in here preaching with four page long piles of crap that nobody is going to read?
Because some do read.
But, why am I so wordy? Well, sometimes that is what it takes to clear up a lot of misconceptions and misinformation.
quote:You want me to go copy and paste the Monroe Doctrine for you?
Why? Does it have something to do with the price of gas?
quote:OP I understand because I think half of what he posts is just poking at you with a stick to see what kind or rant you'll offer up next.
Do you think that I don't know that? I'm just having fun with him. He's a good guy with a good sense of humor and a tinfoil hat that would make some people envious. The tinfoil underwear.... well..... I don't think Joe Boxer will have much to do with that.
.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
pat and i thought you was only a plumber.....TEA TIME...dude you got COOTH!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Posted by John Deaton (Member # 925) on :
Im just reallllly glad my Ford Ranger is a four cylinder. Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Can you unhook alternate plug wires on a Chevy V8 and turn it into a smooth running 4? Maybe that will make me happy.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:Why are people raising hell that gas companies made record profits? Or that government isn't stepping in and putting a cap on gas prices?
*Government* sounds like an awfully political start to a post to me.
[ April 27, 2006, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
quote:Originally posted by John Deaton: Im just reallllly glad my Ford Ranger is a four cylinder.
John,
What kind of MPG are you getting? I'm driving a 1994 4cyl with 5 on the floor. I've never got anything better than about 16mpg around town. My mom's '96 Caddy with a V8 is getting better mpg than I am.
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
I like the higher gas prices. Gives me a good excuse to ride my motocycle everywhere. Customers seem to "get it" when they see me pull up on it. I tell them I can keep my prices lower for them, yeah right!
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
I like the way Bob thinks, I think I need a bike.
Posted by Mark M. Kottwitz (Member # 1764) on :
quote:Originally posted by Todd Gill: Myra - I agree about the War in Iraq costing too much.
Here's how it should have gone:
Day 1 of conflict - US drops 3 well placed hydrogen bombs on Iraq. No more Iraqi's. We take over their oil.
Day 2 of conflict - Iran, Syria, etc all call for Holy Jihad against the US and it's allies.
Day 3 of conflict - US drops 20 Hydrogen bombs on the rest of those Bastids. No more overseas whackos. Again, we take over their oil.
Day 4 of conflict - Whacko imigrants domestically begin ranting and raving and declare holy domestic terror.
Day 5 of conflict- Every red blooded american grabs their AR-15 off the rack above their fireplace and seek out the bastids. (you do have an AR_15 handy right? If not-shame on you.) The peaceful ones are sent to Mexico....the rest, well....you know the rest of the story.
Problem solved in less than one work week.
We have the oil, and I am pleased as punch to pay 28 cents per gallon of gas for the next 50 years.
You know, I thought like that, but I have a much better idea. Total Isolationism. Close the borders, if your not a citizen, GET OUT! If you don't want to leave, then you will have to take a test (based on our history). If you pass the test, you get to stay, you fail, see ya' . No more foreign aide. The money that we are sending to Lord knows where to help their starving and homeless, keep it here. We have too many hungry children and homeless in this country. Why do we have to be the savior of the world? The rest of the world hates us, so why do we have to help them. Why rebuild schools and facilities in Iraq when they are just going to blow it up?
I saw on the news that the Iraqis have a 48% approval for attacks on American Troops, and a 3% approval for attacks on their own security forces. What does that tell you?
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Taylor:
quote:Originally posted by John Deaton: Im just reallllly glad my Ford Ranger is a four cylinder.
John,
What kind of MPG are you getting? I'm driving a 1994 4cyl with 5 on the floor. I've never got anything better than about 16mpg around town. My mom's '96 Caddy with a V8 is getting better mpg than I am.
Glenn I have the same truck as John, mine's a '97 2.3L 4cyl and I get about 23MPG, around town and highway miles combined because our highway really isn't much of one with all the signals they've added over the last few years. I also use a bit of a heavy foot because the engine's so gutless it's gotta rev to 3500 RPM to get any cajones out of it for the hills around here. Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
When will you people begin to post as Letterheads instead as Democrats and Rebublicans, Liberals and Conservatives, Christians and Moslems? Seems like it's always the same old gang that just cannot resist turning every post into a head banging contest.
I saw this as a good opportunity to do some creative thinking, to try and fix the problem instead of the blame. I believe most of us realize that we cannot continue to risk our Children's futures because of our dependance on oil. More words are not the answer. Don't count on Government to save the day. It's time for each of us to take action and start to reduce our oil habit.
More important! Letterville is the one place for many of us where we can gather as Letterheads without fear of having to defend, or feeling a sence of duty, to promote all the other issues that divide us.
If only one person reading this BB concludes that they are not welcome in Letterville because of their Nationality, Political Beliefs, Race, Sexuality, Religion, etc., this has been a complete waste of our time.
Change the tone of this post, or it will disappear.
[ April 27, 2006, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
My wife's Park Avenue averages 29.7 hwy and has gotten as much as 32. I kid you not. Trouble is, I can't haul a sign in it.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Rick,
That is something I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it for me. Why do trucks with smaller engines such as a Ford Ranger get lower MPG than a lot of luxury cars with V8's?
BTW Patrick, I have to agree with Todd about what he said about the "Government" thing. Unfortunately, "Politics" is part of capitalism and free enterprise since they are the one's who regulate it. That said, I ran across the following which I thought was interesting.....
quote:Qatar: Price of oil would drop $15 if politicians shut up
Qatar plans to invest $5 billion through 2010 in an attempt to increase the production of crude oil.
Qatari Energy Minister Abdullah Bin Hamad Al Attiyah said the price of oil would drop by $15 should politicians end their expressions of concern over a halt in supplies.
Al Attiyah said the record oil prices of more than $75 per barrel was the result of fears and speculation within the market.
I wonder how many here would agree with that sentiment?
.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
"We still have 1000 days til regime change, as of today."
Myra...are you making a prediction? Anybody we know?
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Glenn Taylor: I wonder how many here would agree with that sentiment?
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I've said the same thing many times. It's the market, not the government or oil companies setting the prices. Because oil is traded, any time some moron gets on TV and says something like "Gas prices may hit $5/gallon this summer" they're willing it into reality. Wonder if there would be any affect to some muckity muck getting on TV and saying it's gonna drop to 50 cents a gallon. Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Myra and some of the other dOPes here using this post to quack about their political issues? What a surprise. Funny, I never see Ms. Grozinger comment on sign-related threads, so I have no idea how she edge-seals MDO, or what gold size she prefers, or how she deals with annoying clients with idiotic design concepts.
Just an observation, for what its worth.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Ray: It's 1000 more days of this administration - as of right about now, until inauguration day in 2009. ========================= Mr. Cam Bortz: I suggest you chill, and go back to where you were when you left me alone.
First of all you are wrong in what you are saying, and secondly you have no visible call to single me out in an attempted attack. ======================== Steve: I am very glad you spoke up. What you said was really needed. When there are no objections to the unacceptable, then we are condoning it through silence.
Which is often, but not always, why I courteously post on some of these threads.
[ April 27, 2006, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: Myra Grozinger ]
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Tomorrow I head to a job about 60 miles each way. It will probably cost me around $25 in gasoline to get there and back.
I will be paying for that fuel..BUT who is going to reimburse me for my fuel?
I sure know it isn't gonna be George Bush or Stephen Harper (He would be OUR head of government by the way).
My client is going to reimburse me, of course.
The funny thing is..last year the same trip would have cost me maybe $20..What's $5 between client and service provider? Clients are accustomed to price increases, whether it is Rice Krispies or beer.
I'm not preaching or complaining or anything. I just think it is strange to complain about anything that we CAN solve.
It is simple..raise prices or add "fuel surcharge" to invoices. I know that my suppliers do that very visibly. If they can charge me extra then why can't I?
I trust that this comes across as a positive post..it is intended as such.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Supply & Demand
Mike, I'd love to see the ripple effect from some "expert" saying prices were going to drop 50 cents. I'll bet you'd see empty gas pumps with people just waiting like hawks for the price to drop before they fill up, afraid that if they buy gas today, the price will drop 2 cents tomorrow & they woulda been cheated out of 50 cents.
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Antiques Road Show! That's the solution to the worlds problems. You people should watch more educational TV...
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Awwwwww ... poor Myra...she goes around poking bears and wonders why she gets bitten!
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
"That is something I don't understand. Maybe someone can explain it for me. Why do trucks with smaller engines such as a Ford Ranger get lower MPG than a lot of luxury cars with V8's?"
Glenn, it's the power to weight ratio. A lot of small trucks are just too underpowered. The engine is way too small for all the weight it has to haul around. Four cylinder cars get good milage because they are usually light. The small trucks are usually pretty heavy. I've owned two S-10's. The first one I had was a short wheelbase standard cab with a 2.5 four cylinder, standard shift. It got 20-22 mpg. It was always working hard. The second one was an extended cab with a big 4.3 V-6 with an automatic. This engine put out a TON of torque. It never worked hard. Even though it was a heavier truck with a bigger engine, the power to weight ratio was much better and it got 28-30 on the highway.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Bob, I watched the Antiques Road Show on the golf course today. The two groups ahead of us must have averaged 75 years old.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Thanks George. Looks like I may need to look into driving something else!
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Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Well, all I know is I have a popcorn husk stuck between my tooth and gum....so this has become my latest forlorn subject to ponder.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I love to poke grumpy old bears too. You'll often find their bark far worse than your bite. It would be a scary place if the average person allows themselves to be bullied and silenced by bears.
I'm still seeing the bears attacking those who think different instead of shaking off their long winter hibrination, and doing some creative thinking of their own.
How about something on estimating or running a shop Myra? I know you have lots of experience in those areas to pass on. Remember people. Attack the problem and stop the personal attacks.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Can I still make cracks about OP's tinfoil undies?
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Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Thanks Glenn for the early mornign visual Posted by bruce ward (Member # 1289) on :
so basically with this new bio deisel crap coming out soon can i like shove a cantelope or honeydew melon in the duallie? Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
An observation is not a personal attack, Myra. If you are offended by what's been observed, that's not my problem. Having said that, I'll repeat: If you have ever, on this forum, commented on a sign-related, as opposed to political/OT thread, I have not been aware of it. Yes, there are other people who comment somewhat obsessively on OT threads - Glenn comes to mind - but they don't limit their commentary exclusively to political issues. I don't question your right to your opinions and how you express them; my comment is that you apparently don't choose to comment on any threads that don't offer you some sort of political soapbox.
I'm in no particular mood for an argument, with you or anyone else, but I WILL continue to make observations, and comment on them, as I see fit, with or without your permission, thank you very much.
Posted by Linda Silver Eagle (Member # 274) on :
So, uhm, like what I did to make it work FOR me was to plant a garden so I could cut down my trips to town and save some money. I imagine food costs are gonna be perty ugly come fall.
I also toyed with the idea of making a profit and have planted more than my family could eat. I'm putting up a sign when the grub comes up and was laughing with my hubby that by fall I could list the merchandise for sale at half of what W******'s daily price would list and still make a profit LOL. I think we sunk in $300.oo of hay, seed and what not...and hopefully by fall sompn' good will happen LOL.
Just think, I used to do signs for produce stands and wonder what it would be like to produce food instead. I saw some serious coin run through those hands. My guess is it's gonna be yummy!
I just read this thread and realized that in the time it took y'all to bicker over the sky falling, we've dropped 600 romaine lettuce, 250 brussell sprout, 124 strawberries, the place came with a dozen blueberry plants but we didn't find 'em till after we coddled 4 we bought and dropped in the garden. Root veggies, peppers (yes, even habanero) over 2 hundred tomato (cherry and big-boy, melons of every kind we could get seeds for and spinache! I am so excited!
...ok sorry to high jack here but the point is, we just have to adjust the best we can with what we've got. It could always be worse.
Shouldn't we think about Frank. Talk about being at the mercy of the pump. He is losing his house and having to hit the road. Maybe if we are all so "gracious" with our time on this thread, what about donating it instead to helping him with gas costs?
(I'm just attempting to bring things into perspective so the energy we spend will be productive.)
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Cam:
You are polite this time, which I appreciate, but you are still wrong. Your entitlement to your observations and comments is only curtailed when my name is in it, and when the tone is critical and sarcastic.
When, if needed, you go through the search archives you will find plenty of answers to the questions you posed to me about edge preparation of MDO, gold size, or the handling of difficult customers. Some will be by me .
What you won't find is a topical thread on the unprecedented cost of gasoline which is affecting everyone here and everyone we deal with.
That, at this time, is priceless.
Posted by Kelsey Dum (Member # 6101) on :
I WOULD buy a horse but I don't think they'll let me take it out on the freeway!!!
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
If it makes anyone feel any better about $3 a gallon gas ......... the fuel I use in my Corvette just went up to $6.99 per gallon!
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Hey Tony, nobody who owns a Corvette gets to complain.
I guess I don't know much about cars, what does the Corvette take and why?
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
I'm not objecting to this thread, Myra. I am bothered, as I said, by people who have nothing much to say unless they can attach a political opinion to it.
In the interests of being fair, I actually DID do three searches, with your name attached: Gold Size, MDO preparation, and hand lettering. Two of those searches came up zero, and one with five results in four years.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
corvette owners are weird!!!!! thats why!!!! hahahaha dave all cars nowadays have low compression motors that run good on 86 octane fuel. older vets and some of the special run models need 100-110 octane, racing fuel. next jump up in the octane rating is for radial engine aircraft and its rated at 115-145!!!!
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lay off OP, he's makin' ALOT of sense ![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
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Priceless Dude!![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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