Since I'm no longer in the sign business I don't have a shop to work in. I do have a nice two storey detached garage but it isn't insulated yet. The only space I have to do any sign work is my laundry room that also houses the natural gas furnace and the hot water heater that is also natural gas.
There is a sticker on the hot water heater warning of "Storage or use of gasoline or other flammable vapours in the vicinity of this or other appliances can result in serious injury or death". The label on the paint thinner says to keep from open flame or spark.
(As I'm typing this, I'm thinking this is a really stupid question!)
Is there really that much risk in doing a little bit of painting with One Shot and plain old paint thinner about 6' from my furnace and water heater?
I'd really prefer not to blow up my house, just wondering if anyone else has any experience with painting and pilot lights.
[ February 04, 2006, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: Terry Whynott ]
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
I spent 18 years painting along side of an oil fired heating system in the basement of my house and never had one explosion. I even spray painted lacquer based thiners too but would turn off the switch if the fumes became really heavy. I was probably just very lucky but it was always in the back of my mind.
[ February 04, 2006, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Bob Stephens ]
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
I wouldn't worry too much either. Like Bob, I used to heat my 24x36 shop with an old leaky wood stove, and back then I painted all the time.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Then again, a good friend of mine lost his whole sign business because the neighbor was working with gasoline in the same building as a gas fired water heater(in-floor heat).
Neighbor just last a couple hundred grand in motorcycles?
Lesson.....don't let flammable fumes collect near floor when gas fired heaters are near by!
Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
Terry ask your insurance agent after the house is burnt down about this.
My wife is in the business..
Straight up answer is ....Don't play with fire!!! Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
boy i got a story for you!!!!!! july 1998 we moved here to pcola from sarasota fl. the house in sarasota had a laundry/utility room that i used asa work shop and did most of my paintin in the 10' entryway with the laundry room off to one side. never hada problem there the dryer/washer/hot water heater was all electric. here we havea 12'x20' 2 side open carport and a utility/laundry room 8'x12' at the end of the carport...which housed the dryer and the OLD FLOOR MOUNTED(1961)GAS HOT WATER HEATER WITH PILOT LIGHT!!! now we just moved in and since i had all my paint/cans/spraycans in the utility room beofre so why not here!!! welll bout 2 weeks later after gettin settled in...i went int o utility room to look for something. i picked up a box of packed stuff and sat it ON TOP OF A BOX WITH SPRAY CANS in it WITHOUT THE CAPS!!!! some how or other the top box fell onto the spray cans and got a couple sprayin paint....i left room shut the door...went in the house....wife was washin clothes(washer was in bathroom, dryer wasd in utility room)she was gona check on the dryer and she saw flames in the utility room!!!! i said DONT OPEN...(the door) she didnt hear me and when the door opened it just went up more!!! told her to get the water hose, and get away from the door cause the paint cans would blow up when it got so hot...i came in the house to grab 5lb fire ex..and headed back in there...BOOOOOOM!!! THE cans blew.....and i went at with the extingisher....she had the water hose and was on the phone to fire dept.....the fire burnt the phone line....we knocked it down, the fire dept showed up and finished killin the fire and got fans outa there trucks to clear the smoke...and they went up in the attic to make she it wasnt burnin up there. i lost 20-25 cans of KRYLON, and WEATHERHEAD small parts cabinet(like they have in the parts stores, and ALL MY PAINT BRUSHES AND KIT!!!!!! this happened on sept 4th,98...i called in my labor day COOKIN!!!!! DO NOT HAVE PAINT OR VOLITILE CHEMICALS NEAR A PILOT LIGHTED GAS HOT WATER HEATER... i was lucky i didn burn the house down.......and we didnt have insuance on contents.....then...
Posted by Terry Whynott (Member # 1622) on :
Yup, it was a stupid question!
I don't think I'll risk it. Hopefully this post might make some others think twice about it as well.
Thanks for the input everyone.
OP, glad nobody got hurt. When I was a teenager, I worked at a small town grocery store. We used to take all the cardboard boxes over to a huge burn barrel every Saturday afternoon. For kicks we'd often toss in a can of Pledge or air freshener and wait for it to blow! Stupid, stupid, stupid.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Edit: After replying, I re-read your post. You're right, I wouldn't either as it sounds like the space is too confined to be completely safe. But for those that are wondering about a basement shop.... read on.
Gasoline as well as spray paint which contains flammable gas to start with are the most dangerous.
What you have to consider is the flash point and the ignition temperature. (FLASH POINT is the minimum temperature at which a liquid gives off vapor in sufficient concentrations to allow the substance to ignite.)
Below are some common flammables followed by it's flash point and ignition temp.
As you can see, paint thinner needs to reach 104 degrees F before it can vaporize into an explosive gas where gasoline will vaporize at -45 degrees. Xylene which is in One Shot will vaporize at 29 degrees but I have a feeling that the flammable chemicals in oil paint are at such a minimum that it takes massive amounts or be contained in a very small space to become explosive. Federal law allows a maximum of 10 gallons of flammable liquid to be in an open container before special precautions are necessary.
So basically, a few 4x8's painted with One Shot are not going to pose a hazard with an open flame in the building as long as the paint is not spilled right at the flame source or the space is extremely confined with no ventilation. You also have to remember that all of these vapors have a fairly narrow range of the proper ratio of vapor to air to be able to ignite. This is why warnings always state to have a reasonable amount of fresh air, open space, or ventilation to prevent explosion.
[ February 06, 2006, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Dave Sherby ]
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Thanks Dave, I have been doing a bit of basement painting. But the warmest my basement gets is only about 60 degrees, so I guess I'm OK. Love.....Jill
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Does your furnace have a pilot light? Here there is a heat element that glows red when the gas is supposed to light.
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
Curtis you have one of those super efficient heaters in your place if there is no pilot light. Its probably one of those ones with the PVC pipe for a vent, right?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
its metal.. but it don't get hot either,, the code here don't allow plastic vents
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
curt its old time stuff that has pilot lights. our new gas stove is electric pilot for burners and oven. new gas furnace we have is like what youre talkin bout also. the old stuff has pilot lites...
Posted by Jack Davis (Member # 1408) on :
Terry, I'll tell this horror story. I have a neighbor that got fired from his job because of this one. He was given some lacquer thinner to use in the aid of removing some tile flooring. He poured out about half a cup on the tile and the fumes chased across the floor and went up into the pilot area with a draft of air on the floor. Quite a mess when the fire came right back to the main container that he had poured from. I would be worried about spilling a container near the appliance more than anything.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Anyone else besides me who has been on fire? Even the slightest chance is more chance than I'd consider. Burning clothes are one thing, but I think it's the smell of your own burning hair that stays with you the longest. No, thank you, on the painting around gas question.
Posted by Terry Whynott (Member # 1622) on :
I had pretty much made up my mind about not risking it as I was typing out the origianl question but all these horror stories have made me certain I won't do it. Especially with a 2 year old in the house.
I got this message sent to me today by a retired police officer-
"Few years before I retired we received a call of an explosion at a residence. Arrived and found the garage door blown off the house and a man laying in the driveway, burned and most of his clothes torn off. He had been in the garage with the doors closed and he was spray painting a halloween costume for one of his kids. There was a kerosene heater in the garage and when the fumes built up enough it exploded. He lived but was lucky. I never would have thought there would have been that much damage or force, it was like a bomb went off, which it was. Just wanted to relate this to you."
I hope more people reading this will think twice about doing that small job in the garage, or wherever there is any chance of fire or explosion.
Play safe.
Edit- Something I had completely forgot about...Back in highschool I had a small screenprinting business. We used to heat the room with a kerosene heater. I remember the fumes from the vinyl inks and the laquer thinners were enought to send anyone backing out of the room real fast! The thought of the heater igniting the fumes didn't even cross our minds. I never thought about it until just now. Yikes!
[ February 07, 2006, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Terry Whynott ]
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
I always hated the smell produced by the vapors of the thinners mixing with the fumes from the furnace/water heater pilot light or clothes dryer.
If we had clothes drying in the dryer, they took on a horrible smell from the mix.
If you don't blow yourself up, it still has to be unhealthy to breath those fumes...if they smell bad, they must be bad, right?
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