I had to go to the local high school to change names and numbers on a track and filed record board.
The board hangs on a wall in near the front entrance and where students can lounge, snack machines, couches and soft chairs...etc.
So I can over hear what the students are talking about over this 3 hour on site job. Students come and go, they talk, and I take it all in.
SEX is all these kids were talking about. Who they made it with last night, what they did on their dates, and to their dates was all that flowed out of their mouths with no shame.
AND THESE WERE THE GIRLS! (The boys were bragging about how they could beat the record holders of the events on the board!
If you got teenage daughters...you got trouble these days!
and thats all I got to say about that!
[ February 01, 2006, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Dave, There are nights I go into my young daughter's room and watch her while she's sleeping like an angel. All I can think is - What on earth are you going to put us through????? Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
if they're like out here, they probably all dress like rock chicks or porn stars too... not that there's anything wrong with that. (long as it ain't my daughter )
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
Thank Heaven for three boys.....
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
While in high school I wored for the custodial staff.
While working on the plumbing in the tunnerls under teh school we had the pleasure of over hearing teh girls bathroom chatter.
I nearly peed myself listening to what they were saying. Sounded like a pron novel to the details and how to's and what happened next.
Nutin' new here... Been going on since time imemorial..
C'mon laides ... Fessup!!!
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Bear in mind that puberty is natural and school is artificial. Many, many historic deeds were done by teenagers. Until the 20th centruy, a 40-year old man normally was an Elder or even in his final year. High School is a forced, extended adolescence. It will take some serious genetic engineering for education to overcome hormones.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
My wife homeschools our kids and they are pretty much always with us. If they did go to anyone's house it was usually my sister's (she has all girls) or their grandparents'. They have been occasionally allowed to go over to another "church kid's" house but not for sleepovers and even if I'm just suspicious that one of the other church kids is delving into anything that I wouldn't want my kids into...I make it my business to find out before letting my kids go over to their house. I've done that several times and, once again, visits have been very limited. I wasn't born yesterday and it wasn't that long ago that I was a teenager myself. They are not allowed to be alone with any kid or adult who I feel uneasy about at all.
My youngest kid doesn't know it yet but another certain kid's house is now off limits. If a kid's Dad has to take the computer phone cord to work with him, it tells me the've given Dad reason for mistrust.
Here lately, since they are all teenagers, we have given them a little more free rein. The Mrs. and I went on a date Friday night and the kids went bowling...with the Pastor's Family and some friends.
They have not had any "sex education" courses or watched any of the nice films in gymnclass. But they know where babies come from because we live on a farm. Nuff said.
We have done without quite a few times and the the extra income generated by my wife working a paying job would have been nice. But we have never regretted homeschooling our kids.. They learn much more than just reading, writing and arithmetic at school...and it ain't all good.
[ February 01, 2006, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Ken Henry (Member # 598) on :
One thing that I've always wondered about is this:
Why is it that so often it's the minister's son or daughter, who has the reputation of being "the wild one"? I've even heard this from adults who were raised by ministers, and felt some sort of need to acknowledge their behaviour during their teen years. Is this some sort of "urban myth", or is there some truth to this ? I realize that it's somewhat unfair to paint all with the same brush, but it's something thats been around for more than a few generations.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
OK, C'utis . . . (and Dave)
'Fession . . . here it is . . . ready?
Teenage girls are just like teenage boys.
They lie and brag a lot.
There's virtually no way to completely sheild kids from such talk, and you can only hope to focus on the primary thing: To instill enough self-esteem in the to help them avoid 'talkin' or actually doin' any 'trash'.
I always talk openly with my girls and they know they can ask me anything.
The most hilarious 'myths' are put to rest, and facts are shared.
Giving them knowledge is power... and most particularly, knowledge from 'the top' is a valuable tool for them when caught in the midst of braggin' low-self-esteem girls.
Even with home-schooling, which I hope to do with Em', they still have activities with other kids in other home school groups or in the neighborhood. Who knows what others teach/model for their kids.
I'm still old fashioned enough to believe, based on my oldest daughter, if you raise a LADY, she won't be a whore.
This is totally limited to the parent being the role model in all behavior, and creatively enforcing, in positive ways manners of dress and attitude. You certainly can not and should never expect anyone else to do it. Grandparents or other family members who are on board with you are just bless'ed icing on the cake.
LOL...this is signed; "Kind'a Proodish and PROUD of it"
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Ken, you've never met any catholic school girls? You poor, poor man.
Nobody's been to college to see what happens when you put socially and sexually repressed teenagers into one area then remove all parental supervision?
Be glad you're not there to witness it yourself. Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I was basically raised in a closet. Certain cousins I wasn't suppost to be allowed to hang out with, certain things weren't discussed, etc.
Yeah well, I still have picts of the toga party at the 1 cousin's house. (I just KNOW that someday those will be worth lots of money). I remember well those conversations in the locker room too.
I think the closet did a huge disservice to me. The minute I could get out of there, I left at warp speed. Granted I never experiemented with drugs but that was my choice. I also was so sheltered from drugs & other stuff that I wasn't aware of others I was hanging out with or was involved with that were doing it. I didn't know enough about it to spot it. There were other things as well that had I not been living in a vacuum I would've known about and saved myself a lot of problems. I learned alot about the real world, the world I wasn't allowed to know about, the hard way.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Ya don't have to go to college to 'get' how wild it is, or how wild a million other areas of life can be . . .
But, first of all, it's a mistake to assume or believe ALL students are wild, and secondly, to assume or isinuate that modeling or teaching a not-wild lifestyle is somehow socially and sexually 'repressive'.
I think of it quite the opposite way. A kid with a 'loose' mind-set is gonna be a prisoner to some perverted ideas and experience much worse results of 'fun' associated with the 'wild' side, while parent-involved and educated kids tend to be more mature, and have the ability to make reasonable and wise choices.
All kids will experiment to some small degree at some time in their lives. . . but, believe it or not, any kid CAN, and so some actually DO learn to avoid certain behaviours without personal in-depth experience.
Never say never, all, or always.
PS: This is signed; "Nine year party-animal veteran -age 11-20"
[ February 01, 2006, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Michael Berry (Member # 2604) on :
Sure glad we have boys......
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sheila Ferrell: ......it's a mistake to assume or believe ALL students are wild, and secondly, to assume or isinuate that modeling or teaching a not-wild lifestyle is somehow socially and sexually 'repressive'........a 'loose' mindset......parent-involved and educated kids tend to be more mature, and have the ability to make reasonable and wise choices.
I agree....simply sheltering or "repressing" certain behaviours is not going to do the job. When you deny or take something away, you have to put something in its place. Keep them busy.
You have to take the time, make the time, to spend lots of time with them. They grow up too fast and you can never spend enough time.
[ February 01, 2006, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
I've had 'the talk" with all three of my boys....why so young? because of SCHOOL. I want 'em to learn it from me, not MIS-learn it from some kid in the hall.
We've had numerous incidents of trouble with kids in the bathroom at school and the throwing around of all kinds of loose sexual terms--in FOURTH grade.
ya gotta ask--what do these kids SEE at HOME???
School is trouble, yes, but some of these children's home life has to be worse!
[ February 01, 2006, 03:16 PM: Message edited by: Barry Branscum ]
Posted by Dana Blair (Member # 951) on :
My daughter is 7 going on 13 it seems with the attitudes sometimes. I already have the shotgun loaded. If the boy blows the horn, he better be making a delivery because he sure ain't picking anything up!
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Dana, What if its another girl? You still are thinking way too inside the box. Kids these days!
----"If the boy blows the horn....(or girl).....
Posted by Jill Marie Welsh (Member # 1912) on :
Some of the things I've heard Rachael tell me have been very upsetting. Kids these days really are exposed to so much from many sources. I am glad that she has always been able to talk to me about anything. I had lots of things "hidden" from me growing up strict Catholic...it only served to make me curious. My kids have been told the truth about the birds and bees from early on. They know they can come to me if need be, for any reason. Rachael does tell me the escapades of her friends, thank God she thinks they are all foolish. Love.....Jill
Posted by Tim Whitcher (Member # 685) on :
Birds of a feather flock together. Sounds like you overheard the type that my daughters avoid like the plague. I don't shelter my kids, but tell it to them like it is. They have a little thing called self respect and dignity that gets them through the day at school. Did I say that they're both on the honor roll (and that my oldest daughter has a 4.7 GPA)? O.k., enough bragging.
Posted by Katie Gillen (Member # 5843) on :
As a recent teenager, I must say, no matter what you do it's going to be there. Teens have to make that choice if they're going to hang with the "experimenting" crowd. It's not just sex either--it goes the same for drugs and alcohol. If you're clear with them early, let them know you're aware of the temptations, know where they're at, and have raised them with good values..that's all a parent can do. When a teen makes that choice though, you still have to follow through. If they are hanging out with the wrong crowd, snooping, I hate to say it, is justified...but only with a warrant! Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Hmmmmm interesting takes....
I look at my six young adults and say What The Heck did I do right.
Our society is not condusive to raising kids. Violence, sex and foul language are a part of most Television shows - and they banned Bugs Bunny????????
But I believe the human race is a pretty resiliant one...although my children can easily watch the some of the TV that I can't, I have no qualms about their morals and compassion. Ultimitely I think we as parents have the most influence on them, and that has to be enough. Use it wisely.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
There is a Strip Club in my area, & a young man who worked there has gone into the local high school, flashing a BIG wad of money, telling the girls that they can make that much in a single nite.
How would you handle that in your area??? Would any of you step up & try to get the place closed down?
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Over here, he could be prosecuted for being on the grounds, period. All schools have notices at all gates tec (if they get read) that you may only enter on 'school' business, or with an appointment, and in both cases, you have to sign in... or else you may expect the wrath of the state govt after you...
That's awful, Bobbie.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Mercy Bobbie . . . I do believe that's called several illegal things-
Sexual harrassment, and contributing to the deliquence of minors comes to mind for starters.
As for the school, don't all schools require visitors sign in at the office, state purpose for visiting, recieve some sort of pass if the visit is deemed necessary, and sometimes even escorted to and from their purpose for bein' there??
Where is the school security? If some guy can go into a school and approach young people, what's next?? Flashers? Baby rapers?? Kidnappers?
Report the situation immediately to the principle and see if immediate action is taken. If there's no immediate action to prevent, or oversee visitors on campus, go straight to the school board.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I'm just as scared for my son as I would be for a daughter. It takes two! IMO if they have questions, no matter at what age, they deserve age appropriate answers.
Those that are not informed will experiment to find out. I'd rather have Cody make choices loaded with knowledge myself. And hopefully sway him to make the right ones! Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Bobbie.
I wouldn't try to shut it down, just my opinion but it's a person's choice if they want to go to a strip club or not. Yeah, the guy worked there, didn't mean he was told to trespass on school property like that. Be no different than someone wanting to shut down your business because 1 of your employees did something stupid on his own time.
As for this guy going to the school, well Ian is right. He should not have been allowed on school property. Good luck getting in the door at the schools here without a good reason, escort, ID, full body cavity search....
Don't you have to be at least 18 or 21 to work at a strip club?
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Kelly said "Our society is not condusive to raising kids" --------------------------- That's true. It's because our society doesn't really have any use for kids. Most parents don't need them to help on the job, so they essentially abandon them for most of the day. Granted, there are many "adult" occupations that a 9-year old couldn't screw up any worse than the "adults" do. But the adults need the jobs -- to afford kids! It doesn't take the kids long to realize that they're being baby-sat -- for a long time, too. Then after 12 formal years of this, they're not equipped to earn a living.
The 3 principal institutions that make parenting such a hassle, I think, are Junk Food, Kiddie Advertising and Public School.
Junk food is one reason that Medicare officially declared obesity a "disease." No kidding: September of 2004. We're a society of Victims!
Kiddie Advertising, of course, is subversive. It's not their money; it's yours. Do you want me hustling your children for your money? Or your authority? Or for anything? If you're not a student of Adversing, then google "nag factor" and see what you think about that.
Public School could function a whole lot better than it does. But it's very expensive, and the result (a high-school diploma) doesn't justify the cost. I can predict tomorrow's headline: "Schools don't have enough money." Heard it for half a century, and it hasn't stopped. The other one that hasn't stopped is "Today's Grads Not Prepared for Today's Jobs." Jeez. I think I know a way to save a lot of time and money.
So, we have 3 titanic hassles that are totally man-made and totally unnecessary. They're roadblocks. If our society really wanted more kids, these boondoggles would not exist. And adoption wouldn't be such a problem.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
The kid at the high school ATTENDS that high school.
I know a couple of the young girls who work there. It is VERY sad. THEY are very sad, as a matter of fact. The owner owns many such places all over the country & is making BIG bucks on these girls, & it is sickening.
Many of the girls are just BARELY 18, & for you guys out there, try to imagine your little girl who just graduated being offered a job at one of these places. Once you do this kind of work, you can't take it back, & the people who see you do not forget you easily. My heart goes out to these girls.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
There was a time when a feller like that would've been tied up behind a horse and dragged through the nettle patch. Probably about the nicest thing that could happen to him. And yes, I am old fashioned.
My first thought about the overheard conversation was said well by Sheila: could be bragging, could be they were aware of your presence, and trying to shock.
Kids 'come from the factory' quite selfish, that's why you don't have to teach them how to lie, steal, disregard authority, etc. Your job is to teach them the opposite. What gets me is how most parents turn them over to things that undermine what you're trying to do. I mean hey, the job's already hard enough.
We severely limit their contact with what others consider normal. But that in no way means they're unaware. In fact, that's just one of 8 reasons why I don't send them to public school, that they aren't made aware of current events and trends, and the cause and effect relationships of those events.
One of the common remarks people make about homeschooling children is that "they won't learn how to socialize". My take is:That's their best shot??? They're obviously aware of how well homeschooled children do at academics. I heard a perfect response anyway, it goes something like this: "Well, if I wanted my children to have the same social interaction, I'll just be sure to give my son a wedgie every Monday, then on Wednesdays I'll steal his lunch money and call him names. My wife will be sure to belittle every sort of physical feature on my daughters, so they can feel like schoolgirls"
The following is a piece I wrote to post on a homeschool group:
Why we don't send our children to public school:
Abomination: A strong term, to be sure, but let me put this in perspective. Let's imagine that I disagree with the local school on the precise time that George Washington crossed the Delaware. I was certain that it was 6 PM, but the school taught that it was 6:30 PM. That is a disagreement that I could live with. But to teach that there IS NO GOD? In a word, abomination. This is the sort of thing that is a foundation to all our other knowledge and discernment. If I differ with someone else on this issue, we obviously will reach different conclusions on other issues of the day.
Authority: The need to conform to other children's opinions can be so strong that it becomes a real but not blatant shift in authority. The parent's authority is diminished, while 'peer pressure' gains authority.
Homogenous: This is related to 'authority' above. This country, indeed the world, is becoming homogenous in it's ideas, fashion, trends, etc. The desire to be 'hip' can be a strong one, for some people, even adults, this can be very strong. If the trend was only about fashion, style, and physical things, that would be one thing. But the trend is in attitudes and ideas too. I don't need to expound on where it's going, that's obvious, but why people don't care to think for themselves is interesting at best. Since the people that are hip have the same mindset as what the media at large is teaching, this is what your children will be pressured into becoming, and the country will be homogenized. In ancient Rome, there were slaves that had been slaves so long that they were put in charge of buying other slaves. So it is with bullies and those that are vocal in their efforts to make others conform. They are working to insure that all are slaves.
Work/Business: I want my children to learn what work is. Not just a chore, but sustained work that can take a few hours. Setting in a chair all day is not what I want for them. 'Physical education' classes get them active, but don't show the results of a job well done. Working for sustained times causes them to have mastery over their selves and work to a specific goal. Watching their parents deal with the trials and rewards of work prepares them for the day when they will do it themselves, and aquaints them with concepts like the volume of money it takes to contract a job, dealing with buyer's desires, tool upgrades, and self education to learn the new equipment or software. This was quite foreign to me when I finished school.
Current Events: I want my children to have not only some knowledge of history, but current political and spiritual trends as well. The cause and effect relationships between religion and politics, economics, corruption, etc.
Mind Structure: I want to make their minds operate in a cross reference manner. It starts at a very early age, and is taught mainly during morning bible study. Here is a brief overview of how we do it: There is a sign I made on the wall, a poster will do nicely. The sign has different words or ideas on it. These are the ideas that are on it now, they may change later, you do what you think is important: Cause & effect. Omission. Letter of the law & spirit of the law. Self. Chain reaction. De facto. Make yourself into. Implication. Warning. There are different levels of rewards. I have a plywood box-like control panel I set in my lap while I'm reading It is wide enough to hold an open large print bible, a score sheet, and a few buttons that are mounted to it. One of the buttons activates a buzzer from a dryer.Real cheap and effective. That button is for those that were not listening, or playing. When I sound the buzzer, that child gets a sad face on the score card that I'm keeping. Three sad faces and you get no treat at the end of bible study. The levels of reward are according to the importance or difficulty of the question asked. Actually, the highest rewards are not for questions, but for observations that the children make. The smallest reward is a cinnamon imperial, you know, the little round 'cinnamon hot' candy. The next level is one or two skittles, another type of candy that's a little bigger. The biggest reward is three skittles, this for being able to tell me a bible verse that means the same thing as the one I just read, but has completely different words. Level one (one imperial) is the reward for being able to correctly repeat back to me the verse I just read. All these questions and rewards are adjusted according to ability. The tiniest children are asked one word. I want it to be an important word, and it usually is one they need to work on as far as pronunciation goes. So this morning it was Judgment, and righteouSneSS, for those needing to work on 'j' and 's' sounds. The middle children will often get a skittle for a more difficult verse, because they're still working on being able to tell me another verse, or a category off the sign. Which brings us to level two, the sign. If any of the children can tell me a category from the sign that is very relevant to the verse I just read, they get two skittles. If it's somewhat related, I'll lower the reward to one skittle. Level three is the highest level of reward, three skittles, this for being able to tell me a different bible verse with the same meaning. On level one and two, when they have a category or verse they want to say, they must raise their hand until I call on them. Keep observant, so you know who put their hand up first. Make the older children wait a little on easy categories like cause & effect, so the little ones have a chance. For added effect, maybe just good ol' dad's wierd preferences, there are gongs hanging from the ceiling where I sit. The lowest pitch gong is for level two reward, and the highest pitch gong is for the bible verse reward. I strike the lightly with a wooden stick. Level one answers get a beep from a different buzzer mounted to the control panel, along with a burst from a strobe light. Sound, light, candy, it's a big deal when you they get these questions right. After the study we pray, and the children are usually reminded not to play while we pray. Those that didn't get three sad faces or pray while we were praying get the final reward, which is like a cookie or something. OK, that wasn't so breif, but I didn't want to leave you with questions, it is alot simpler than it sounds above. You adjust it how you want. Stop the study to explain how a verse or idea relates to current events.The rewards for the parents are immense, seeing them look for the 'bones' of a verse.
My duty: If you send your children to someone else to teach them, it's very easy to let those people decide the direction and the priorities of the children's education.
Individual direction: As a child gets older, they start to exibit abilities in certain areas that I prefer to strengthen. For example, we have a son, age 12 that is quite good with mechanical things. People pay him to repair things. We of course make him stay in and do a certain amount of academic learning, but his mechanical skills are encouraged.
Thank you for reading this, and please pass it on, if you feel others can benefit.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bobbie Rochow: The kid at the high school ATTENDS that high school.
Oy, how do you handle that? I would think you'd have to be 21 to work in strip clubs. At least here in the Commonwealth of Prohibition, I'd think you had to be 21. Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
. . . kids prolly all looks and no brain . . . failed who-knows how many years . . . now he's nothin but an exploited body . . . what will he do when he's all wrinkles??
lol
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
James said "But to teach that there IS NO GOD? In a word, abomination." -------------------- It would be, but that's not what's going on in public education factories, or not going on. You're closer to the fiasco in your reply to people who fear that home-schooling won't teach kids to "socialize." Socialize? What? Where peer-pressure is Law? That would be like the plants running the greenhouse. The examples you give are sufficient.
What I hear from teachers who think about these things is that so many kids are being raised on entertainment, and it's hard to keep their attention longer than the 8 minutes between commercials. An enormous portion of Marketing has zeroed in on children. It has to appeal to the lowest common denominator of education and emotional development. And now it's everywhere, and if the kids think it's cool, then the hustlers think it's cool, and the parents must think it's cool if they buy into it, and here we are.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Well, I still say the best way to influence your kids is by example. If they see you cheating and "making up stories" vs. being a loving and thoughtful mate, that is what they imitate. I think your kids learn much more about you by what they SEE than what they hear you say! ....just my two cents... We still tell our boys..."You can't control what other kids do, just what YOU do. Do you want to be a leader or a follower?"
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
The allegation, or misguided notion that home schooled kids have no socialization is absolutely ridiculous and totally unfounded anyway.
Home schoolers have:
Family neighborhood kids Home-school group feild trips/activities YMCA public activities/sports
and any other number of community activities available to participate in.
And I'm of the opinion some of the very best education a child can recieve is from extensive traveling with their family.
And, the public school systems which beg the government for monetary support, are given dollars at the high price of becoming governemt robots, told what to teach, when it will be taught, and by whom.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
More than anything,,,,in a nutshell....is how YOU raise your kids and the habits your kids see YOU involved in.
For instance, if your kids see you having multiple partners staying over night doing the deed over the years....you think they don't take that as a green light to behave the same way? Even if you tell them different? Get real. They're going to act the way you act.
Same goes with boozing it up and drugs....you can warn them about the dangers all you want, but if their world involves seeing YOU over drinking, etc.....well, you just trained them to be the same way.
Love your kids. Spend time with them. Resist the tempatation to drag some guy or chick home for the weekend. Don't be getting hammered in front of them.
If you do, they will....and then you have no one to blame but yourself. It's all about the example you are. Communication - honest communication - is a must.....in all matters moral, sexual, & otherwise.
Raise a child in the way they should go, and they will never depart from it. Sermon over.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Re homeschooling- my sister did it for nine years- and their oldest son spent his second last year at a gov't school. At the end of that year, school kids get together to elect the school captain for the last year, and he was it.
Some will do well in spite of you, and some won't, in spite of all you try!
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
When we first started homeschooling our kids in 1991 (they have never been to public school), I heard "they won't be able to function normally in society" til I was sick of it. My kids are in 4-H and get along with all the other kids, they socialize just fine with all the kids at church. We take them to jam sessions and they get along fine...without all the junk.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Kids don't socialize in school! Anyone that doesn't fit into the mold is cast aside like a piece of maggot-laiden rotting cow tongue.
I guess if you consider socialization to include using headphones and ipods to shun public contact, talking on cell phones to distant people instead of talking to the ones right next to you, using class time to send text messages over a cell phone to someone across the country that you met through an internet forum, spending time at a computer on internet forums or IM services, well I guess they are socializing.
For schools to be effective this is what's gotta happen...
The states need to take control of the money used for each student's education each year. ie: If a school district boasts they spend $7000 per student per year, that money needs to be linked TO THE STUDENT and give the PARENTS control of where their kids go to school, not just base it on which district they live in. When the money is tied to the student and the parents can make the decision where the student (thus the money) goes, the schools will snap into shape so they get their money. If the school isn't effective at educating the student, he or she can be moved to another school and the money goes with them.
Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
We have a nine year old daughter...sure, I'm worried. But, things today aren't really that different than they were in the past...you just hear about it all damn day. Really the only difference is the clothes and the music...the hormones are same.
It's all about communication. Teach your kids respect for themselves and others. And they need to understand the difference between reality and fiction. In my opinion, kids need to be exposed to the negative aspects of society. Many of the choices I have made over the years have been because I saw what the wrong decision did to someone I knew. Kids need to learn from mistakes...and if they can learn from someone elses...it's that much better.
I went to what is considered one of the worst schools in the area. I never got involved in the crap because I wasn't interested in it...It is possible to avoid most of it.
We have one kid, and we both work full-time. She goes to daycare before and after school. Do I feel guilty? No. She loves it. Loves hanging out with the kids. Even if we didn't both have to work, we probably would. Daycare isn't just a glorified babysitter...it can be the same as the socializing kids get at the YMCA or 4H clubs. Building social skills with their peers.
We have a huge Christian Academy here in town...I'm sure they are not all the same as this one, but this place has no windows. Even the college kids at this place are chaperoned. Girls can't have cars, and must walk to the store in groups no less than three. Best I can tell...they either come out so screwed up, and unable to converse with society, or they do all the same crap as the other kids, they just have to be done drinking in time to sober up and get back in the gate by 10.
I love my kid...she's smart, beautiful, has a great sense of humor, and best of all, she has the ability to think for herself. And she is VERY opinionated...in a good way. I'm confident that she will be a good teenager and a fine adult, in spite of the public school system and daycare.
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
Mike said "I guess if you consider socialization to include using headphones and ipods to shun public contact, talking on cell phones to distant people instead of talking to the ones right next to you ..." -------------------- Gawd bless! I believe you're not kidding! This is definitely not getting any better.
I thought it was bad 4 decades ago. "Socialization" then entalied social cliques, racial prejudice, bullies, fashion & dress codes and fanatical over-emphasis on sports. In my highschool there were fraternities and sororities. College prep, eh? I used to tell those kids "You're not a social organization. You're based on exclusion, not inclusion. You're anti-social." How old do you have to be to figure that out? 15?
Apparently it takes some kids a lot longer, because they're running the public schools today.
Reminds me: _Growing Up Absurd_ and other books by by Paul Goodman on "education"in the Sicksties. So billions of dollars and trillions of hours later, where are we?
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Oh...I just read Jane's post....and that's pretty much perfect.
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Some of the worst kids I ever met were the sons and daughters of clergy, cops and went to Catholic school.
Kids are no different today than they were when I was a kid. Some are destined to destroy their lives and others will turn out just fine even if they do make a few mistakes along the way.
And no matter how good a parent you are and how good an example you set, some children will still make some bad choices. All you can hope for as a parent is that yours "might" turn out ok.
Do your best and hope for the best. Its not easy growing up in the world we live in today. And I doubt that will ever change even in the future.
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
"Raise a child in the way they should go, and they will never depart from it. Sermon over." Todd Gill....quoting a Biblical idea ------------
-------yeah, right Todd. That is a Bible truth, however, the Bible indicates 1/3 of the angels became disobedient and are now demons. So is GOD a bad parent? Did GOD do a bad job setting an example or not talking to his "kids" about the birds and the bees?
Free moral agents is what all intellegent creatures are they are going to do what is in their hearts... no matter what.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Ah yes.. the paranoid Cop dad.. I have one. Total pain in the butt to live with but I got lucky, most cops go to bars after their shifts then come home drunk and beat their kids. My dad never went to bars, he just came home completely sober and ready to give lectures. Very long lectures.
My parents made it pretty clear to both me and my sister, we had to earn our freedom. We did have more freedom than the other kids but if we ever screwed up, it was taken away. Groundings were never part of it though, the consequences were more severe than that and often included humiliation. That includes if the police picked us up for anything and called our parents to come get us, we'd be spending the night in a cell. If we screwed up, Mom and Dad simply would not come to bat for us.
Live and learn!
Knowing we didn't have that parental "Safety Net" to rescue us pretty much kept us on the straight and narrow. We had to think into the future of what consequences may come and that determined if we did anything. Yeah, we both had a couple youthful indiscretions but we learned from it and moved on.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Cops beating their kids after the shift is done? A little of an exaggeration don't you think Mike?
Of course, speaking as an uncaged Catholic what would I know. Lots of lost sinning time to make up for after being so repressed and protected. Not to mention, not being "socialized" in the correct manner.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Lecturing is usually not the way to go. Talking works better. Think about when someone is condescending and "lectures" you...how do YOU feel? You get what you give to your kids. Be honest and frank, but be in charge. My kids misbehaved ...but usually they know right after they did it, it was not a good choice. We pointed that out to them. If you are mean-spirited and condescending, that's what you will get back from them. They KNOW when they are wrong, don't think they don't. Kids are smart and they know when you are being "real" with them. I saw a great saying a while back..."Be nice to your kids. They will choose your nursing home." Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Dave - sorry, I kind of misquoted that verse you mentioned.
It really goes like this:
Proverbs 22:6 - Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.
It doesn't say a kid will not stray in the "wild oats years - or that he won't do anything bad when young....but I think the idea here is that if you're a good parent, a good example, and teach your kids what they need to know in regards to personal responsibility, morals, religious values, etc......
then even though they might falter for a time, they will eventually return to the moral compass they were presented as young people.....
Isn't this how you see many, many people play out their lives: They were taught good values, they rebel for a time as young, inexperienced individuals - preferring to try things their "own" way.....and then discover that their once stupid, but now wise parents had it right with the training and guidance they provided in their youth.
They then throw off the old, silly, frivolous way of living and return to the basic tenets taught by their parents - and become very responsible, respectful and honorable adults.
Much like the parable of the prodigal son.
I cannot answer your question about God's rebellious angels....only to say that it seems God gives everyone a "free will." Maybe this was true of his angels as well. My thoughts are that God wants all his creatures to consciously choose Him as their God by their own free will. End of sermon number 2.
Edit: I should say that this is my own opinion on training kids - and my view on life's journey....I don't want to get too preachy here...so I'll sort of stay mellow and let this ride. I'd be happy to discuss this in a neighborly way if you'd like. I certainly don't claim to have all the answers...but do have my opinions on this subject. Have an awesome day - and a successful one too.
[ February 03, 2006, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
"...however, the Bible indicates 1/3 of the angels became disobedient and are now demons. So is GOD a bad parent? Did GOD do a bad job setting an example or not talking to his "kids" about the birds and the bees?" -------------------- Dave, don't you know that angels are without gender? Some have masculine names like Michael and Gabriel, instead of Michaela and Gabriella, but they don't reproduce, or get sick or get shot or anything. Those fat little baby angels you see in Renaissance art are only cartoons, not portraits. Lots of folks back then must have been tutti-frutti over cutti putti butti.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by David Wright: Cops beating their kids after the shift is done? A little of an exaggeration don't you think Mike?
Maybe, maybe not. Lots of cops do drown their sorrows at the bar after their shifts and a drunk is a drunk regardless of profession.
Cops can be pretty tough to live with because dealing with the trash all day long does make them paranoid, mistrusting, negative, depressed, etc. They get lit up like a Christmas tree there's no telling who they're going to let loose on. Especially when they work in a larger city with lots of trash.
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
Many good points and opinions in this post. I think commenting on this post is just as difficult as maybe choosing a career as a cop, just maybe. Forgiveness of other's mistakes and deep retrospect of my own actions does help me to clear out my head so that I can be an example for my kids... and coming to the bb to let my hair hang down and gather ideas, surely makes parenting a bit easier. btw, I believe the Good Lord did give all free wills, therefore, a choice of which roads to race, trod, skip or stumble upon; and I'm glad there are fields on the sides of the roads to just take a break on.
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)