i have been reading here about the inkjets printers(versacam) and other and how they require laminating, long drying times. you buy the printer, the laminator, the rip soft ware ect. then you are only given a short limmited exter. life span. the solvent inks are still reqireing laminate and the printers are a health hazards.
i have been looking at the Summa DC Plus and it comes with the rip @20k no laminate or top coating and it prints up to 36" on their small machine. the prints are ready for aplication right away..transfer tape and apply...no wait. you can print on a mulitude of material and you get a 5-7 year out doorlife on vehicles and signs. i have been out soursing from a local company that has this equiptment and am in aw at the quality and durability.
i'm interested in some pros and cons in this topic and why shops would chose ink jet over thermal.
chris
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Chris -
If you choose thermal, I'd consider the Gerber Edge...even with it's smaller output (height-wise). There are far more color choices in thermal ribbons not to mention other consumables....and paneling is achieved easily to create larger graphics.
My buddy recently sold his Edge 2 and bought the Soljet EX Pro 540...(similar to the Versacamm) and yeah, there are some tradeoffs....ideally, It would be great to have both.
But the ability to simply design your graphics in Photoshop, or illustrator or whatever...and just rip and print knowing they'll come out looking great is awesome. No screwing around with making sure element #1 of 1,000 is in the right layer order or knocking out this-or-that, or has the right trap line...blah, blah, blah.....
Design wise - - far less time involved in inkjet. No switching multiple foils in and out of the machine.
Inkjets can be slower to produce output though and yes you do have to laminate in some fashion. I think they might last longer than you might guess, although probably not 5-7 years.
However, regardless of what any of the mfgs say....you DO have to laminate Thermal prints if you don't want them to fade prematurely. I'll argue that one to the death - because I've seen it happen many times. Unlaminated, you'll be lucky to get 3 years out of an Edge print without visible fading. I'm not bashing thermal, because I sincerely like the Edge and would love to have that puppy back for certain jobs. It's a great machine.
The inkjet is proving to be pretty darn easy to work with. Had a few banding issues initially due mostly to using materials which weren't "profiled" for the machine...but that has mostly cleared up.
Health issues with inkjet? That's a new one on me....I thought the ecosol don't produce harmful fumes.....but I have noticed this funny twitch lately. Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
you are going to have to laminate a thermal print especially if going on a vehicle...so don't kid yourself...i love these salesman that say anything. the versacamm is a awesome machine...it comes with a great rip...personally i don't find it bothersome to just take it off my machine and tack it to my wall for a day...its not like they are wet...they are delicate...meaning you can scratch them but i have long chimp arms so i can handle 54" media without a problem. i'm also loving the print and cut in one unit.
everyone is going to have different needs. if you use rolands products and profiles they have a 60 month guarantee on the ink and media...i take that with a grain of salt but its nice to have that to fall back on...so i still tell people 3-4 yrs depending on where it is. if they want the bling bling then you sacrifice longevity. i must admit most of my customers get new vehicles every 3-4 years anyway. as long as you are up front with them then thats all you can do. its not been an issue yet when i tell people 3 yrs. and as far as banners go...they are temporary...i would never tell someone their banner will last for years left outside in the elements.
i guess you need to figure out what market you wish to target and go from there. there are a number of different medias this will print on. i haven't even stratched the surface of its abilities.
[ August 13, 2005, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: KARYN BUSH ]
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
Laminating doesn't necessarily mean having a laminator. We Frog Juice our Edge prints and have had few problems, including vehicle graphics. We also apply laminate to panels just like you were applying vinyl.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Show your customers a thermal print, then show them a solvent inkjet print. You don't have to guess which one they'll pick, inkjet hands down, although in most instances having photo quality prints or smooth gradations from a 6" viewing distance isn't an issue for signs.
Of course there are things that inkjets cannot do.. like printing white on clear or colored films and there's no metallic inks.
It all depends on what you need though.
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
The 6 color rolands actually do print white. They revamped the software to create essentially a 4 color process plus white. The color gamut is wider than the 6 color process using c,m,y,k,lc,lm.
Still no metallic inks or spot colors .... YET
[ August 13, 2005, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: Mike O'Neill ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
now that I have both, I can wholeheartedly agree that the ideal is both. I could never imagine giving up my edge... & the fussing with layers is not really that big a deal when you get used to it. As Mike said... a 720x720 dpi inkjet print sitting next to 300x600 thermal print makes the inkjet output an immediate preference for many from a first glance perspective.
What hasn't been mentioned much yet is the cost difference. On small orders of print/cut decals the cost difference won't add up as fast, but look at banners & you can pay over $3 a foot for panels of full color thermal output & then go buy a banner, & pay someone to weed, tape register & apply the panels to the banner... or you can go with inkjet & just load the banner in the machine & print wall to wall photographic images for under $1 per sq. ft.
I won't try to plays salesman on the inkjet side too much because I've only had mine 2 weeks & have way more to learn then what I've learned already... but I'll take Todd up on his offer to argue till death the need for lamination on thermal. I've sold over $200,000 worth of thermal prints in the last 6 years here in tropical sunshine conditions & NEVER laminated anything! NEVER had any fading complaints, NEVER had any abraision failure complaints. My own sign is over 6 years old because I had it printed by the guy who I subbed out my edge work to before I got my own 6 years ago. I'm not saying it hasn't faded, or wouldn't look brighter today if it was frog juiced... but don't use someones claim the thermal HAS to be laminated to base your decisions on.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
i agree that having both would be great. I have two digital printers and have a blast with them. Some work must be lammed. Some doesn't. I used to move vinyl jobs every week. Now I hardly ever move vinyl..
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
I have both... If I had to recommend just one for a smaller shop It would be the inkjet. BTW the rip software is included with the Versacamm, works fine straight from Corel or other softwares.
I think inkjet vs thermal has been well discussed, a 'search' will bring lots of ideas.
[ August 13, 2005, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Mike O'Neill ]
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
I know that the difference in the 2 printers in a close up veiw is hands down but most exterior signs are not veiwed that close.
the Summa has a double dot funtion that in my opinon makes up for that. i just had some decal made with images of food made for a menu board for the mall and wow just like a photograph.
i guess in my needs i don't do alot of interior work but in my case short run decals in place of silkscreen printing is going to be a big time and money saver here.
i know there are many different application for both. this is good stuff for me to see everones opion on how you are useing in each situation.
there is a company here that is going to a Flat bed UV printer and printing directly on coraplast, PVC, Banners ect. wow but the start up cost!!!
chris
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
I have both too and wouldn't give up either for anything. They both serve different purposes.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Chris,
Don't let the mass hype tell you thermal is dead. Thermal is alive and an extremely versatile medium. In many cases Thermal can do where ink can only dream.
I would have to agree with those who said both is the ideal, but hearing your posts DPI doesnt seem to be a selling factor here. You won't regret thermal, It has a proven track record to boot. How nice would it be to offer a lifespan that has actually been tested in the field and not in some lab.
Consistant vibrant colors every time with no drying or lamination needed. No waiting for drying if you need to replace a panel on a job in the shop. The only problem I have with a print and cut in one machine, whether it is ink or thermal is like having 2 workers on the payroll but only one desk to work on at a time. So while one is working the other is standing around.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
The only one not to get is the one that won't make you any money.
Yeah, I know. Its a stupid answer. The problem is that its true.
The question you need to research is "What does your market want and what is the best tool for the job?"
For me, its the Edge. For a competitor of mine, its been the inkjet. And while we are both sign shops with similar abilities, we are targeting different markets.
Also, Bob is exactly right. If you develop a good clientele, the "print'n'cut" combo machines can hinder productivity. I like having mine seperate.
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
i Have not heard anything about the issue of print and cut on one machine slowing things up. it seems to me the cutting is the part that would take the least amount of time.
though my market is outdoor graphics. i know there is a market for point of purchase, but it seem to me this market is flooded, in my opion.
i have to remind my self that this is a tool. a good tool in the right hands is a beautifull thing. thanks for all the imput.
chris
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
I think the printer cutter thing must be for those that have only ONE cutter (?) maybe...
Don't most have a cutter already? If you don't I DEFINITELY reccommend having a standalone cutter for the non-print work.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Actually Barry you will find situations where you will want to print and cut at the same time on long runs or if you have multiple print jobs.
There are many many days where I am printing and cutting at the same time.
This has nothing to do with cutting straight vinyl, I have a seperate pplotter for that. But long runs are better served to be broken down in sections so while another section is printing the previous one is cutting.
It's called doing 2 jobs at once Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
sorry bob...my newbie-ness is showing. Hope I get that kinda busy problem soon...
Actually no I don't we are busier than a...(insert witty John deaton hillbilly saying here)!!
Seriously...at the moment I am employeeless and covered UP. Busy, and not griping, but man it's a lot of work!!
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bob Rochon: Actually Barry you will find situations where you will want to print and cut at the same time on long runs or if you have multiple print jobs.
There are many many days where I am printing and cutting at the same time.
This has nothing to do with cutting straight vinyl, I have a seperate pplotter for that. But long runs are better served to be broken down in sections so while another section is printing the previous one is cutting.
It's called doing 2 jobs at once
That only matters if you have the volume that requires cutting printed stuff on a different machine. ie: if the printer is printing constantly 10 hours a day every day of the week. If the printer has "downtime" in between jobs you obviously don't need a whole other plotter to cut the stuff.
Hey Ro, I don't think yer doing much printing at all these days, huh? Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Chris, As you are well aware, both mediums have pros and cons. If you expect either to last for more than a couple of years, lamination will be required.
If given only one choice of the two, I would probably go thermal if, all I was doing is outdoor work on vehicles and signs.
I’ve found that thermal technology is a lot more reliable and a lot less fussy as compared to inkjet. Like you already mentioned, when you’re done printing, the graphic is nearly ready to be applied. Thermal printers are relatively easy to maintain too. You don’t have any clogged lines or heads to worry about, ink spills to clean up and environmental conditions have little if any effect on print quality of the finished product.
On the flip side with thermal, when things go wrong they go wrong in a big way. To fix a problem with a thermal printer probably will cost a lot of money if you’re not on a support contract.
With inkjets, when a print head goes bad you don’t have to send it back to the manufacturer. You throw it out and install a new one yourself. A lot of the other parts can be easy to replace on your own too.
Printers are slow when you compare them to cutters. Higher resolution equals slower print speeds. Thermal can be considered quicker because it does not print at the higher resolution that inkjet is capable of producing.
If you plan on doing a lot of printing, separate print and cut machines is the way to go. A 30" wide x 8' inkjet print at 600+ DPI, will take about 30 minutes to rip and print on a good machine. A 20' box truck could take a full day to print. Can you go that long without a cutter?
Finally, don’t turn your nose up at point of purchase, it is not dead. It's a market that we've decided to put more energy into selling and it is doing quite well too. Our last two orders were large and quite profitable.
Good luck with your decision and let us know how you make out.
Havin’ fun,
Checkers
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
NO Mike I haven't been printing a whole lot these past 2 days. Watch it now or I'll get drunk and mistake your garage for a Drive-Thru Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
Checkers, Thanks for the experence. i think what i was refering to in my market area, the market is flooded. as an example: a high volume shop doing majority banner work i cannot compete with there prices on banners. my work is very diverce. i lost a large beer disributors work here in town to a digital printer that printed right on to the banner. they had a short life...when the sale ended they through them away.
i think my entry will be in the digital printing a thermal printer. as as things grow in this area i will probably look towards inkjet and laminating.
i have seen and it has been proven to me that thermal does last out doors un-laminated exept were hars kemicals are used or abrasion is present.
chris
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Just two things....
1) Sold 10 2.5"x48" 2 spot color decals.
Materials cost: $14.70 Shop time spent (office & production): 20 minutes ($60 per hour shop rate)- $$20.00 Total Sale: $81.80 Net Profit: $47.40
2) 500 2"x3.75" 10mil Lexan cards 2 spot color print with VHB adhesive.
Materials costs: $112.00 Shop time spent (O&P): 1hr 30min. - $90.00 Total Sale:$360.00 Net Profit: $158.00
And that was before 10am this morning.
I just luv my Edge.
.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Ok...another case to prove that thermal REQUIRES lamination:
Beyond samples of fading we've already seen posted here in earlier threads, I just went down to my neighbors house who is a well known building contractor in the area.
The last logo I did for him was on my buddies Gerber Edge 2, which was far easier to apply than the multi-layer vinyls I used to do.
Well, he has had the Edge prints on his trucks for slightly over two years and guess what???
F-A-D-E O-R-A-M-A!!!!!
This was printing black, red, orange and white spot foils on silver metallic vinyl. The silver metallic portions of the vinyl itself look fine.
The thermal printing looks like crap.
3-5 years unlaminated my a$$.
So what's so different about this scenario than the Avery debacle? Like in the Avery cases, I still have to replace the graphics.
Michigan climate...nothing too unusual. Truck is well maintained.
Like Karyn said...don't listen to all the sales BS - - you HAVE to laminate if you want it to look pretty for over 3 years.
I refuse to believe anybody that says their unlaminated Edge prints aren't significantly faded in constant outdoor exposure within two years.
Luckily, my neighbor is easy going...he didn't really care if I replaced it or not...I'm doing it because I care.
Now, will I get the same support as those who got screwed by Avery? I wonder.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Welllllll.....
All I can say is that on "vertical" surfaces where there has been no abrasion (washing and such) I've not had any problems.
However....
On slightly curved surfaces that are as little as 5 degrees from vertical, you can see a dramatic difference in fading. In fact, the further from vertical the print is, the faster it fades.
I know this because I've been doing some testing because of a complaint a customer made about some magnetics I had done a few years earlier. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the center crease line that goes down the side of a Dodge van. Well, she had installed the mags over the crease. Two years later, you could tell by looking at the magnetics where the crease was by the more intense fading in that area. Where the magnetics were on a completely vertical surface of the door, there was no appreciable fading.
Because she had spent so much money with us in the past, I replaced the mags free of charge and I clearcoated the prints with Frog Juice. Its been just over a 18 months and so far everything still looks new. Just a side note, we found that laminating Tedlar vinyl on magnetics doesn't do very well. The overlaminate developed wrinkles all over it after a couple years.
I also had an issue with some Edge-printed door decals that I had made for a company. They had ordered about 50 pairs. I found out later that some had gone onto field trucks (F150s) and some on cement trucks.
The field trucks looked fine but the ones on the cement trucks horrible. While the Sapphire Blue color still looked fine, the Tomato Red was completely shot. Long story short, we found that certain spot colors did not take pressure washing with a mild acid solution (for removing cement splatters) as well as others.
Since we now know that they are putting the decals on cement trucks (we didn't know before), we are laminating them with Tedlar (Frog Juice couldn't handle the chemicals and would soften and become cloudy).
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
Does anyone have any thoughts on Gerber Abrasion Guard Foil? Does it extend the UV protection as well as protecting against Abrasion? It sure is a simple step if it helps longevity.
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
I've been told by someone at Gerber that it does have some UV inhibitive properties, but not enough for them to promote it as such.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:Ok...another case to prove that thermal REQUIRES lamination:
freeekintweakers dude... WTF makes you such an authority to attempt to be so dang universally imposing with your own measly opinion!!! I mean, hey yer a nice guy & I respect your usual debatability... but come on... "proves"?... "requires"?... I meanmutterfrikkin "REQUIRES"? ...lamination...
it's not like YOU were EVER a full time sign guy... (edit: OOPS, Ok, scratch that dis, forgot you were one) or YOU were EVER a full time signshop owner... (DOH!.. OK, my bad, guess you were one of them too) or YOU were EVER the owner of a single piece of expensive digital sign printing equipment... so you printed some crap on yer buddies stuff & yer the be-all, end-all authority on the topic, spewing your beliefs into the fray of meaningfull discussions among signshop owners who are actually considering making huge business related equipment purchases...
before I strain myself re-typing stuff for the future digital printers out there...
quote:Originally posted by Doug Allan: I'll take Todd up on his offer to argue till death the need for lamination on thermal. I've sold over $200,000 worth of thermal prints in the last 6 years here in tropical sunshine conditions & NEVER laminated anything! NEVER had any fading complaints, NEVER had any abraision failure complaints. My own sign is over 6 years old because I had it printed by the guy who I subbed out my edge work to before I got my own 6 years ago. I'm not saying it hasn't faded, or wouldn't look brighter today if it was frog juiced... but don't use someones claim the thermal HAS to be laminated to base your decisions on.
anyway, I really should be cranking out more money on my EDGE (& my inkjet) tonight... but instead I'm out shooting digital pics just so I can play devils advocate with myself & agree with Todd on something. Here was my sign about 7 years ago.
...lo & behold, Todd is right... Thermal DOES fade, (although after 7 years, it's enough to bug me... but here is "somebody who says their unlaminated Edge prints aren't significantly faded in constant outdoor exposure within two years", in fact 3 - 4 years later I was using that sign to brag about thermal printing longevity, & that sign is still helping SELL thermal printing based on how it looks today. & you can take THAT to the BANK!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
...well OK, it does look kinda Schitty now... but the new one is almost done!
...here's a sneak peek at the new one...
the signfoam islands will be painted the primary & secondary colors after being carved to represent the topographic lay of the land as they sloap into the sea of my teakwood vinyl palette. The lettering is edgeprinted on reflective (without lamination of course)
[ August 19, 2005, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Be careful Doug. Someone might confuse you with a real signmaker. I like it!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
nah... just another quicky-sticky with a few cool tools & the occassional ambition to copy things I see here Thanks!
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
i have been a hand lettering old school painter for about 20 years now and i find that even one shot lettering fades and oxidizes after only 2-3 years. washing it with bleach will remove the mildue and oxidation but the luster of new lettering it will never be. the harse cemicals that truck driver use is ruff on anything you put on it even vinyl decal lettering.
i would like to say this.... i am open to everyones opinion and would hope that egos and resentment would not creap its way in. what is the old saying " if you haven't anything nice to say...".
the weather and temp are important factors in an out door product wether you are in hawaii or minisota or N.carolina. is important to know how the weather factors affect these products and what experiance each person had. i thank all who have shared here!
chris
P.S oh buy the way.. what i'm hering here is experiance with the edge, not anyone has mention the Summa DC10. also printing on different materials like silver i understand will wear differently and my not be recomended by the manufacture.
[ August 19, 2005, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Chris Lovelady ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
quote:but adding your praise among so many others regret serves what purpose? Changing the minds of folks losing annual contracts, long-term customers, general integrity in the business community ??
From a recent post.
quote: it's not like YOU were EVER a full time sign guy... or YOU were EVER a full time signshop owner... or YOU were EVER the owner of a single piece of expensive digital sign printing equipment... so you printed some crap on yer buddies stuff & yer the be-all, end-all authority on the topic, spewing your beliefs into the fray of meaningfull discussions among signshop owners who are actually considering making huge business related equipment purchases...
Actually Doug, I was a full time sign guy for about 2 years and did own my own "shop" if you want to call it that. I just decided I could make a lot more money doing what I love (design) and still enjoy doing vehicle/ fleet graphics on the side to satisfy that creative urge.
No, I never personally owned an edge...but I originally gained my experience on the Edge years ago when a company I worked for bought the Gerber Edge upon it's introduction....
My buddy purchased his Edge 2 upon my recommendation....which served us fairly well until he purchased the Soljet upon my recommendation. To me....that's a smart move on my part. My buddy fronts the money and equipment, and I trade some design time to him for the opportunity to have free access to his equipment, materials, inks, foils, etc. Gosh, maybe I've got some good business sense after-all.
In both cases, it was I that designed and output ALL complex jobs through each piece of the aforementioned equipment. We're not talking simple fades and clipart here.
While I freely admit that there are many nuances that Glenn or you or other Edge owners are aware of in terms of function, I think it is a bit of a slam to stereotype me as some kind of *Calvin clipart* grade part-time hack...
Now about the fading....the thing with thermal/digital in regards to your posted sign pics is this: When you see the same sign every day, as you do (and most customers do) it can be very difficult to notice the change in color intensity because it happens over time...and the mind doesn't necessarily pick it up. It's not like it changes from red to pink overnight, therefore sending up immediate red flags.
It's gradual - yet a consistent degradation.
And after 2 years, and not being up close and personal viewing my neighbors truck graphic....it was quickly eveident to me the major shift/and fade in color from when I originally put it on.
My guess is that your sign faded LONG before you really consciously perceived it...which doesn't surprise me since like I mentioned above...you saw it every day and it was gradual enough a change that it didn't set off immediate warning signals.
And....selling digital based upon your sign doesn't mean much either, because your prospective customer doesn't know what the original, day 1 sign looked like in comparison. He sees a nice sign that was probably in his unartistic eye designed with a lot of blue colors in it...and it's hanging far enough away that the chalkiness of it isn't all that apparant. It still looks cool to him, although he doesn't realize it's not in the way it was originally intended.
My neighbor didn't really have a gripe about his truck graphics, but like I said....I was embarrassed knowing what it looked like originally. And I don't think a "part-time" hack would really care - but I do.
I see no difference between this failure and Avery's failure - - either way, I can almost guarantee that Gerber isn't going to go out of it's way to replace my foils, time, and labor to replace it.
Since the Gerber is now gone, I am going to replace his graphics with a new digital SolJet print - laminated with Rollaguard - which should last him a couple years at which time I know he'll be replacing the vehicle.
My friendship and reputation as a guy that stands behind his products regardless of whether the customer complains will remain intact.
By the way, I consider this a debate and defending my honor...but don't hold a grudge against you Doug. We've had many debates..and something good always comes out of them...and we might be like oil and water at times..but I still like you and hope to meet you some day.
And in conclusion (finally) I really like your new sign...everything you do takes on a new dimension and you challenge yourself consistantly....
Edited to add the word "part-time" above.
[ August 19, 2005, 09:53 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
Is it the full moon or what??
What's with ye guys???
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
AAh - Wooooooooooooo! AR AR Awooooooooooo!
Nah, Mike....Doug and I are buds....we just love to debate details.....I think we both have this unsuppressable need to right every wrong as we see it from our "unique" viewpoints.
[ August 19, 2005, 10:55 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Paul Luszcz (Member # 4042) on :
I have been an Edge owner for over nine years and a "sign shop" owner for three.
I have changed my opinion of Edge durability. I used to say they would last three to five years, (I've never laminated an Edge graphic) now we ask many more questions before stating a time frame from one to four years.
Now that we are a sign shop, many more of our prints are used outdoors, and some on boats and trucks in addition to signs.
Glenn described the difference very well. I've only had to replace a few vertical graphics (some window decals come to mind) but I'm done using them on boats or trucks without lamination.
Wherever the graphic leans toward horizontal, and it doesn't take much, the color disappears in as little as a year.
We just redid a boat that was Edge printed with three colors of tribal graphics just a year ago. This time I used three colors of high performance vinyl.
One year? That's a temporary graphic.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Thanks for that input Paul...many, not all of the Edge graphics I did were on vehicles...vehicles have curved door profiles...however, I've done some vertically flat signs that faded as well.
Good machine, but had I done it over I would have cleared/laminated it in some fashion.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Oops, I stand corrected... I could swear I thought it was you that preceeded so many posts with, "hey I'm just a *Calvin clipart* grade part-time hack ...can you guys help me decide what my buddy is doing wrong messin' up my prints, or what my buddy should buy now?
...well, I got you down from "F-A-D-E O-R-A-M-A!!!!!" to "It's gradual - yet a consistent degradation." I can concede on that point.
(OK, plenty other good points too... but 'nuff groveling, I'm goin' back to printin' again) Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Chris, I love my Summa DC3. I always frog juice it. I never had one go bad yet. Push one button to print all colors and contour cut!
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Anybody for Chinese food?
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
I was gonna have grilled salmon but dang Chinese actually sounds better right now.
Posted by Sharon O'Brien-Lykins (Member # 5723) on :
Summa has ScratchGuard™, billed as an "abrasion and solvent protection without lamination." I would use that before going to the hassle, space and time-delay of laminating thermal prints by the DC3-Plus.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Is it just me, or has ANYONE else ever had Frog Juice or OneShot UV Clear turn their 4 color process Edge Prints GREENISH?
It's not a gradual thing either, it happens as soon as I brush OR spray it. I've stopped using it.
[ August 22, 2005, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Gene Golden ]
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
yup
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Yup, it's happened to you too, or Yup it's just me???
Also, I just noticed bird crap eats through the FrogSkin AND the Edge Print on my truck!!!
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
yup
Posted by Glenn Taylor (Member # 162) on :
Of course you realize that the birds are trained pigeons sent over by a competitor of yours.
[ August 22, 2005, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: Glenn Taylor ]
Posted by Bill Lynch (Member # 3815) on :
The only time I have an issue with frog juice on a print is on full color/process/half tone type prints. There is a "dust" of color that doesn't bond. I remove this with some transfer tape before applying the frog juice.If you don't do this it kinda smears. Other than that I find that frog juice really "pops" the colors in an edge print.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
yup, I avoid frog juice because it will lift the ink on my prints. But now, I beleive it is the unbonded ink too.. Because, it is the black color that smears and black is made up from all the colors. It might be a heavier coat..
Posted by Chris Lovelady (Member # 2540) on :
well,...i glad to say that i put my order in for the Summa DC3 Plus with the cleaning system. I can't wait to put it to work. thanks for all who offered their experiances.
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