I don’t know if something like this has been done, but I was wondering if anyone else would be interested.
As most know...a “typical” Letterhead meet is based on the “traditional” way of lettering and sign making...not that there hasn’t been any vinyl stuff at any meets I’ve been to...but in some cases it almost seems like taboo to bring up vinyl.
A few of my thoughts are this:
Although many of us bitch about vinyl...a lot of us use it everyday to make a living...would a meet based on vinyl...tips...tricks...how to’s...short cuts and such be of interest?
I for one would like to see some design programs (other than what I use) operated by knowledgeable sign people...kind of a head to head type thing. I hate going to tradeshow’s and having a salesperson that couldn’t design their way out of contest judged by blind people show me a program.
I envision having several computers with different programs...multiple brands of plotters...vinyls...substrates...and other day to day products used by “vinyl sign makers” on hand and used the way we do day to day.
Maybe some head to head contests of sorts to take a job from start to finish with different systems.
What’cha think?
Would any of you equipment/product venders out there be interested in something like this?
Jeff Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
That make alot of sense Jeff, since it is the way the majority of us make a living. Those are the subjects that I am the most interested at a meet. I take all the design classes, corel/program tips and tricks, and am interested in the "how to make money in the signbusiness" classes. Of course I drool over the "real" handletterers and beat myself up that I haven't taken the time to learn it better. I always vow to practice more, but real life hits and I'm just busy crankin out the work and raising a family. If I could learn how to crank the work out faster or more effeciently, make more money with less work, maybe I'd have more free time to spend....okay, now I'm just babbling. I know you just have to MAKE time to learn new skills.
Doug Downey puts on a great class. He's a great designer and a whiz with Corel. I always try to absorb something from him. Dave Butler did a great session on photoshop in moncton, And Nancy and Noella do a great presentation about designing. Superfrog has been sharing vinyl tips for years. I hear what you are saying about seeing different programs and products in action...thank god for letterville!
Suelynn
Posted by Mike O'Neill (Member # 470) on :
I've thought about that as well, Laptop comes with me to next meet I get to; there's a bunch of stuff we could share with using corel, printing with corel, photoshop tips & tricks, using romcat and file organization in general...
It would be easy for an Omega user or a Flexi user to install the program on their laptops and they just have to remember the dongles... Only problem I see is sharing info on versaworks the dongle is a bit big ... it's the printer
Posted by Artisan Signs (Member # 3146) on :
I would love to see something like this happen.
Lettering and striping is such is a gift. It is a "given", and "learned" talent through lots of practice.
The same goes with computer design, software knowledge, and how it is applied to the end product.
A meet centered around the initial design on a paper tablet, to the computer, and the end product, (vinyl, carved, lettered, airbrush etc) would be great.
Peace out, Bob
Posted by Catharine C. Kennedy (Member # 4459) on :
One of the fellows at Mass Mayhem had his laptop with him & was showing SEVERAL of us about Flexi- absolutely fascinating!
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I e-mailed Jill about this exact thing just yesterday. I'll be taking my laptop to her meet, and even without power I am good to go for about 4 hrs.
I know that I learned a heck of a lot from Gail in too short a time when she and Dave were at Steve and Barb's a while back, and I hope I was able to give some guidance at a couple of meets, to which I have taken my laptop.
I think it is a heck of an idea Jeff!! Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
[ June 02, 2005, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Doug Fielder (Member # 803) on :
Just think of all the waste that can be produced at such a meet! All the scrap vinyl, used transfer tape, backing paper, weeded out stuff. What techniques are there to know that haven't been in seminars? The Painting meets have people of different specialties sharing their experiences and know-how, spreading the interest in the craft. Just think of the glue chipping, acid etching, angel gilding, water gilding, engine turning, matte centers, plaid burnishing, murals, airbrushing, pinstriping.... you all know. Since everyone already does the sticky stuff, the paint meets are to introduce them to another way and keeps the craft alive.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Bob, there's a huge difference between seminars and trade shows..and Letterhead MEETS.
The idea of a meet is to exchange information and techniques, not sit and listen to a speaker or stand there and listen to a sales pitch. Meets are more of an exchange of ideas one on one. I know that I learn a lot more when dealing with one other person that I can interrupt and ask questions as we go along.
I think what Jeff is suggesting is a meet that embodies the same principles as a traditional meet, but geared more to one on one sharing of computer based techniques.
Just like at a traditional meet, where an old pro will sit with a newbie and teach, encourage, correct and advise about the nuances of brush lettering, this type of meet could involve the same "mentoring", if you will.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...Calling it a "LETTERHEAD" meet may be the wrong idea for this viable concept. In fact, the Letterheads were originally formed (by seven Denver SIGNPAINTERS) to preserve TRADITIONAL sign making techniques. Sorry y'all but, (as much as we love 'em) VINYL and COMPUTERS just ain't traditional.
...Maybe this "new" meet thing could be called STICKERHEADS.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I think you should have any kind of meet you want, anytime, anywhere, with any focus on any theme you want...so...whatever that theme is . . .just have letterhead meets.
And if you're a person who's not into that particular meet theme, go anyway . . .you might actually have fun, meet some new people, and get some kind of inspirational vibe from some cool colour combo or type you see.
Creativity is not locked up in a can of paint, or the tip of a brush.
Regardless of what traditional-minded heads may think, using the computer for paint masks, pattern drawing, or actually cutting the letters, is NOT a sin, and a meet of letterheads who employ those particular tools would only increase the computer skills of all who us their computer in this business . . .even if you only use it on this BB, not to mention how lay-out skills, and presentational printed art can be used to set these letterheads apart in their business from the 'fast-food' franchise types.
To veiw the use of the computer as 'untraditional' and those who use it as not qualifying as letterheads, even thought they wish to increase their skills and make beautiful signs in the same spirit as traditionalists, is to have an utterly closed mind to the extensive use of new tools, and, seemingly, to have lost the spirit of being a letterhead oneself.
And Ro, I ain't sure about 'seminars' . . .but trade shows can't hold a candle to a Letterhead meet, in my humbley-limited, personal experience of attending two of each of these different events in sign biz.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
"I LIKE IT!!!"
Seminars and shows don't provide the personal touch that meets do. Nature of the beast really, shows and such have a business to promote and nurture, which is a good thing, because the best of the best are nothing w/o supplies and tools.
Meets on the other hand, don't rely on funding past expenses and are geared more towards the weekend party theme. It's in this atmosphere that the personal touch is exposed and allowed to flourish. Hence, souls at ease, seem to absorb more, envision in greater detail, craft from love(as opposed to meeting a deadline), and for the most part, allow themselves to "let" their hair down for a few moments and have some fun.
For a novice, this situation provides a bastion of safety and learning comes so much easier when relaxed and safe. The same can be said of the teachers too, the quality of the lesson is enhanced in the atmosphere created at a "meet". I believe Dave referred to it as mentoring, a good term to use when trying to explain meet nuance.
While at Jill's, maybe w/Dave bringn' his laptop, this idea could go thru a research stage, eh? Catalin and possibly one more Corel guru, will be with me, as Catalin doesn't do anything w/brushes, this would be an excellent ave. for him to also fellowship, vs; trying to fit in all weekend. Other party isn't a commitment at this time, so no hard plans are being made for them at this moment. Hopefully this party can make it as they are highly proficient in both worlds, a joy to watch work.
So lets vote !!!....tacos...
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Actually, Bill, I hate to differ with you on the origins but to quote a well respected Letterhead, Mike Jackson, who has a fairly simple explanation of the movement on his website at...
"It all started about 30 years ago, when a small group of apprentices in Denver got together to learn more about the craft of making signs. While the organization has grown larger than any of them could have imagined, the simple spirit behind their original needs lives on and EVOLVES. The keystone of that spirit is EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION."
"leaning more about the craft" does not mean restricting one's self to the "Old, Traditional Ways", it means learning about aspects of the craft that one has had an opportunity to in the past.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Mr. Pickett, If we are keepers of the craft as you suggest, then maybe we should go back to drawing on cave walls or chiseling into limestone. As much as the original concept is a noble one, you can't make time stand still.
Ask Kent Smith where to find some of the ingredients mentioned in the original gilding books. Everything evolves, including our "craft". I am well versed in the hand-lettering arts as well as the new-fangled computers - gotta be.
I don't think you use a sharp nail to pounce parchment to make your patterns, do you... would you? You probably use a projector, if you are at that stage of lettering. What would you have used in 1920? Do you want to keep THAT particular craft?
I think it is imperative that we as "craftsmen/women" keep the process of designing, creating, and fabricating signs, an ART in the purest sense of the word. Good design is good design, good layout will always beat a bad one. The CRAFT isn't necessarily in the method, but in the result.
Seems to me that I purchased a CD from Mike Jackson, and it wasn't produced in OneShot!
Learn from the past, but embrace the future.
Posted by Nevman (Member # 332) on :
Good points Sheila - making signs with a computer WILL be traditional 20 years from now; we are laying the groundwork now. All of the basics, layout, design, negative space, color choices, typefaces etc, will still be in effect and improved upon. Imagine if we still ground up clay and drew on walls with sticks.
On topic, we are planning to have a digital printing class at the Mazeppa Muster. I will be demonstrating the benefits and profit potential for this type of work. I have been in contact with the folks at Roland and they will have a VersaCamm there for me to demonstrate. I won't be getting into the technical things like RIPs or color calibration but more like the output possibilities and profit potential. I will be posting a topic in the next few days to see what the response would be to this type of class.
We'll see ya there...
Posted by Nevman (Member # 332) on :
Gene - you beat me to the "caveman" reference.
We must have been typing at the same time...
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
Jeff, I am trying to have the Vynull part of our everyday work at my meet here in Mazeppa.......I understand what you are trying to say and do.....Like many meetings I have been to...I think that a person like yourself that bring up the question of such a nature, he or she should do something about it! I have no problem mixing it with an orginal "Letterhead Meet."
There are other factors to consider...
These are not negative but important......
Computers
Computers with SOFTWARE installed(How many sign making software companies are there?)
Digital Projectors
Vynull to cut
Digital Media
This can be set-up and done...there's no question...and it has been to a limited amount at BIGGER "trade Shows"
But to do it "Letterhead Wise' has not been done....Step up to the plate Jeff and be the leader of this....If I can do a Letterhead Meet anyone can.
It will take some work, phone calls, letters, sponsorship, but you won't know unless you try.
Good Luck, I'm pulling for you!
i'll have another Winter Muster some day and I'd help you get a workshop going......
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...Indeed...Letterheads IS a mindset, regardless of the tools used. 99 percent of us use modern technology daily to make our sign products. It's a given at all meets that most attendees home/shop lives are fully immersed in tech stuff. But, it's the traditional stuff that is rarely seen today that still facinates and drives many of us.
.. It looks like the old ways are a dying art. (Howmany sign "painters" do you know?)
..The whole point OF the Letterheads is to bring focus to, and celebrate our businesses history.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
[ June 02, 2005, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
Thanks for all of the feedback so far!
It seems there is some interest in this concept...so I will step up to the plate and go on record to say I would like to host a meet of this type. Obviously there are tons of logistics to work out and I appreciate and welcome any and all input.
Jeff
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
[ June 02, 2005, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Mike's suggestion of having at least one digital projector is huge. Half a dozen people looking over someone's shoulder to try to see what's happening on his/her laptop sounds about as exciting as watching paint dry, if not less. You'll need to make sure you have plenty of chairs to go around, too.
I just had a mental picture of Rick Glawson's last Conclave. And instead of all those people working on gilded glass projects, ya have 40 people hunched over their laptops. Oh well.
Go for it....I'm sure you'll have a great turnout from this site. I wouldn't worry too much about negative views, either.
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Such a project does hold interest for me. After all these years working with Signlab5, there are still areas that are a struggle for me. Node editing---especially with trying to clean up scanned artwork for starters.
The instructional CDs are fine up to a point, but, miss some critical step along the way and it's backtrack time.
Hotkey shortcuts are another area I find difficult.
Bottom line---I'd be interested, except for the distance involved.
bill preston
Posted by Steve Racz (Member # 4376) on :
Jeff,
I like the idea.
A few minutes with a Corel wizard like Dave Grundy would be better than many hours / days trying to discover on your own.
I would gladly pay money to watch Stevo do one of his designs in Corel!
Thanks, Steve
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Sounds like it's shaping up to be a corelheads meet. y'all have fun.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
I think Mike touched upon an important point. Setting up something like this as a smaller meet would pose some unique difficulties, mostly based on the wide variety of equipment, materials and programs out there..
Example: Dave Grundy is adept Corel and I would enjoy spending time learning from him, but that means certain equipment and software would be needed. If only Illustrator is set up...well, you can load Corel, the needed fonts, clip art, etc. Multiply this a few more times for each lesson and you'll need a helluva powerful computer with loads of available memory...or two...or three.
Next, which cutters will be compatable to the programs, which features are included, are you going to have blades for cutting Signgold and sandblast masks?
Don't misunderstand me, I think it would be great if it could be done, but I'd just as soon attend a class by David Butler or a manufacturer's workshop .
There's just way too many variables, IMHO. Rapid
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
I just couldn't see driving 10 miles to watch a room full of people using corel on their laptops. That's just me. I don't in any way say that to encourage anyone to feel the same way. I doubt that you'll have any problem filling a dance ticket with those who would enjoy this.
And I doubt anybody's going to cry over me not bein at a meet, and most here would likely consider that a good reason TO attend. lol
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Oh stop it Don . . .what...do you think this is YOUR birthday or somethin'??
QUOTE (Ro) ----------------------------------------------- "Originally posted by Dave Grundy: Bob, there's a huge difference between seminars and trade shows...and Letterhead MEETS.
------------------------------------------------
Yes Dave you are correct, there is. I wonder why?" ________________________________________________
Ro, besides what MrMc so well explained, I would like to add more specifically, it seems that in the instance of seminars, more info is given as 'in-the-box' techniques, and also is more often a promotional tool or demo to push certain tools/materials. And in the case of trade shows, they more specifically demo/push selling materials tools. They very often could care less what you do with what you buy. Just buy.
Of course a letterhead meet can be more one-on-one, though you may have a looser seminar which allows freedom to think outside the box, and no one really cares who's materials & tools you use, just wanna know what all can be created.
Since many letterheads already have learned that nothing impossible to do with almost any medium, there's a lot of creativity to be tapped into and explored . . .those cave dudes literally just scratched the surface for us . . .
So, who cares about who cares if you have a corel-draw meet? I know zilch about it. I would love to attend one sometime. I've just scratched the surface of gilding. Reckon I'll ever know too much to be 'above' attending a meet focused on gold-leaf? . . .I been slingin' a brush for 15 years. So. MABEY in another 15 I'll 'know it all' and can avoid a 'silly' brush meet.
Nah.
I'll never know it all . . .but I'll never stop tryin' too . . . .
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
I certainly don’t have a “real” plan yet. I would like to say some of my first thoughts based on what I’m personally after are as follows.
I have Signlab5 expert (no printing capability) that I use daily and think I’m fairly proficient with it. I have Signlab7 but I won’t go into why I don’t use it now. I have Adobe Illustrator 9, Adobe Photoshop CS, and Corel draw 12 all of which I can do virtually nothing with. I don’t print although I’ve been out sourcing more and more of it and know it’s more of what the future holds.
I would like to step up to designing stuff on a computer that I see others doing with all the fades, beveled edges, different “eye candy” things and such. I would like to watch someone proficient in “any program” so I can try to make an educated decision as to what program I would most like to try to learn.
I also like to think I’m fairly proficient in the way I go about my vinyl production and application...NOT FOR A MINUTE am I saying there’s nothing for me to learn! But if I can help someone with an easier way to do something I’m all about that as well!
While doing the above I think it would be great to have a verity of other aspects of vinyl type sign work available for all to learn from and about.
I think I have a few resources that would be very helpful in pulling a meet of this nature off.
I’m not sure I personally am after it being so much a “training” type meet as much as a some what head to head thing as to which program or equipment may or may not appear to be what each individual might want to pursue. Again not to say that someone teaching a particular aspect of any of this stuff is out of the question.
I’m all ears as far as input about the logistics of putting a meet together other than needing my head examined!
We (Fred & I) were discussing possibly limiting the size of a meet of this nature.
This whole idea was brought up here without much if any forethought.
We are very open minded about the direction of this meet.
Again WE welcome any input!!!!!
Jeff , Fred , Luke , and Lisa
p.s. Lisa wants to have weeding races. Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Jeff
I am game for a meet of that sort. We do both paint & vinyl, but, a "First Ever Dark Side Vinyl Jam" would be a riot! Specially in Illinois, (short trip for me).
I am adept with Omega, am at 50% with Illustrator, and well, I own a Corel, So, a meet would be in order. As much time as we spent "discussing" the incredible shrinking Avery, maybe they could redeem themselves, and sponsor it. Let me know Jeff, I can help roping in sponsors.
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
I recently attended a small gathering of 6 guys over to Dave Correll's shop in Faribault Minnesota.....these are guys that have computers but do not use them for signs......yet.
Dave and I introduced them to the Signmaking software that we use...Flexisign 7.5
It was hard to concentrate on sitting at a coupla machines to do the "Eye Candy" because we have all been to each others shops hosting meets, painting, carving, drinking, dancing etc.....It's got to be whole nuther realm to be in the "Nerd Mode" All we were after was getting the basics down....this can be a BIG big, push for someone to get over the hurdle of hating the computer.... I have been to both ends....I first hated them and despeised them altogether, then I woke up to the fact that I could make MONEY with them and still make the signage look like I wanted to!
This is a delicate line with some folks...others could give a s**t less. I know painters that have NO computers..they still do just fine. yet there are a majority of shops that Do Not PAINT and make out just fine.
Is the art Dead? No. Never will be. It might be pushed to the wayside and set-up like a Threshing show at the County Fair, but it will never die.
I do agree with Don Coplen...I feel it would be boring to hunch over a laptop too, BUT..we are creative people..are we not? never say never, for every move there is a counter move. Can this be made fun and NON boring? You damn right it can. I also agree with Wicked Billy Pickett, where the original Letterheads Fill-os-o-fee should always remain in tact...LETTERHEADS is FOR THE NOVICE..Afterall, we ALL are NOVICE..you never stop learning...so here is something new to learn.......a machine that makes letters.
I say give Jeff a chance and make it fun, open, creative. Every 20 minutes you have to go all together to a room and Jazzersize to Jane Fonda or Jay Allen to stay awake, and keep the Blood Flowing, then go back to TOTAL GEEKDOM.
End result.....you learned something to take back to your shop and........(All together now) MAKE MONEY....and be happy.......
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Hey!
Watch whayt you say about cave painting! I seem to remember that is how i started in my dim dark past! Fur on a stick was a revolution, just like computers!
Correct? Bill and Jordo??
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
And then FIRE came along !!
What a revolution?!!
What a revelation !!!
Paint ANYTIME !!!
New technology!!
And stay warm whilst painting----what more could a body ask for?
Progress----ain't it wunnerful?
bill preston
Posted by Carole Bersin (Member # 5710) on :
After saying for years that I didn't want to do work on the computer because the learning curve is tooooo big and I'd rather spend the little time I have learning to be a better painter I broke down and got one.
So far mostly what I've learned is that this is a really fun way to communicate with all the cool people I meet at Letterhead meets and I have absolutely no patience trying to learn this darn computer gizmo stuff. Today my 11 year old showed me how to make a folder for e-mails. Woo Ha! At least this time I wrote it down so I might remember.
A Dark Side Letterhead Meet seems like a great idea but you'll probably still find me in some corner with a brush babbling about the ^%@$&*)&&%&%$&* computer.
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
I find myself relating to this post and Suelyn and Sheila's take on it familiar to my situation along with others that make very good points and refreshing to see all sides.
It's great to see the candid opinions in this ever changing world. Now, I find it absolutely wonderful that anyone offers to teach any facet of the trade. Especially when it goes so well together for some folks, as each to his own, right?
I haven't been practicing my hand lettering for about 10 years now since I had to work to hustle the buck to feed my kids; only with the pictorials or handpainted cartooning, etc, where the customer actually wanted and appreciated it.
It was simply a matter of speed and energy for me. Things were difficult with my personal life for years as I had to compete to get working space as we had a few talented people to share space with. I usually had to go six months out of the year squeezing between and around vintage motorcycles and autos in a one car garage. So, many of the choices were to fit into other's lifestyles and time was always at an essence.
Slinging a brush and keeping the handcrafts are what brought me into letterheads. When I heard about the group years ago, I didn't have a computer. Never wanted one. I did finally break down and get an old refurbished Gerber 4B which I still have and it makes great patterns for multiple signs. Still, I am never happy as I am when I am with the brush and mixing and splashing colors.
When I discovered there was lettering life outside of my little world,(letterheads in Denver), it was a shocking surprise, as I just knew a few stripers around the country, and just a handful of gold leafers and lettering old timers.This was too cool, as it turned out that what I thought was dying out was actually alive and kicking!
Not everyone wanted hand painting in the 90's as my competitors were pushing the vinyl to be better. Neither were better, I explained. Whatever floats your boat was my motto. I did the larger signs that were larger than my plotter size (about 12 in.) hand painted and the smaller in vinyl. No one worried about the difference, and I was versatile with getting the job done in the most efficient way for me. That's good business to me. Plus I was starting to have breathing problems, and decided to let go of some of the chemicals of paint and thinners. Not to say vinyl was good either, but made some changes and feel much, much better.
All in all, I have to say, seeing Stevo's and many other's designs and knowing Jill's hand painting enthusiasm and skill, we can see this is a marriage of the minds, for sure. I bet there's no issue about the differences there! What a classic example of lettering love! Hugs to you guys!
Jeff, I should come over to see you sometime; you're just 15 min from me, but it's been so busy! A meet sounds great.
[ June 02, 2005, 02:13 AM: Message edited by: Deb Fowler ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
This kinda "discussion" comes up every time a meet is announced or suggested.....bottom line...as long as youre having a meet to share information and get a few people together and youre not naming it after somebody or whoring out someones name to try to present it as something its not........DO IT. If you wanna have it,its YOUR meet so do it your way and have it on any topic you want,trust me people will still show up and you'll still learn something....half of this bunch couldnt sign a friggin name on a banner and remail it without some kinda major drama over the course of 2yrs,thinking everyone is gonna conceptually get together on a principal like this,well prob easier to get a bear to stop crappin in the woods than make that happen....... the bitchers will still bitch about how they coulda done it better,the topic sucked or what was wrong with the tshirts....... or some other broken record ego mantra just to hear themselves make a noise and they'll still be the ones sitting on their a$$es doing nothing about it or contributing nothing to it....forgetting that put up or shut up is a simple concept to live by. Decide on a time,place,topic,announce it and pimp it a little and it will be a good time.....they dont like it they dont have to come,f'em cuz they're gonna complain anyway......or post the meet details & directions in a .pdf file that they print out and fold in a shape of an arrow so its easier to slip up their rectorals. Is it a good idea for a meet? ya,esp since the ones who continously make jokes about vinyl and otherwise whine the loudest are more than likely the ones using it more than anyone else.
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
quote:Originally posted by mike meyer: I have been to both ends....I first hated them and despeised them altogether, then I woke up to the fact that I could make MONEY with them and still make the signage look like I wanted to!
I know that statement holds true for me and I would suspect for others as well.
I HATED vinyl with a passion not so many years ago..or so I thought..turns out I only hated what people that didn’t know what they were doing with it were doing!
I’m not sure I agree with the "Nerd Mode" thought...I’m anything but a computer nerd. I’m a person that likes to be creative and it just so happens that our ever evolving world has taken me to the adventure of using a computer as a “tool” to do so.
I don’t think you meant that in a derogatory way Mike but unfortunately that’s sometimes the sentiment of the general public...I doubt I’m the only one that has had someone say “I used to know a guy that did lettering by hand...not have a computer do it for you”.
Bottom line with regard to this meet idea is...it just seems like were missing the boat when it comes to sharing the same concept of getting together to learn and keep the “traditional” ways of sign making alive with teaching and learning how to make our current ways easier and more efficient.
For me the day I quit learning is the day I stop breathing...and who really knows if ya quit then.
Thanks for your support on this Mike and others…as I said before...I will certainly welcome any thoughts or ideas the subject...especially with all the logistics of putting a meet together!
THANKS Jeff Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
Don't give up on it jeff...I support you and I think Computer Corporations will also support such a meet. No, I did not intend to use the "Nerd" labels derogatory...I know I look like one when I am stooped in front of mine! I do enjoy working on these things.....The speed of making sketches is incredible compared to the "old Days"...but the old days still live or me.......for these are the GOOD OL DAYS!
GO JEFF GO! You must have the Jazzersize with Jay!
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Using the computer as a tool, not a crutch, is a very important issue. Putting an airbrush fade onto a line of copy in Gerber Omega, Corel, or Adobe Photoshop is just another, more accessible, cleaner way of producing art. Better or worse? It depends on who is handling the tool. As Jeff alluded to, what we are tired of seeing are jobs done by people who don't CARE enough to learn how to use the computer creatively. Gerber probably set the world back a few years by installing Helvetica on the 4B and charging hundreds for each additional font. That, in and of itself, limited creativity to the extreme. To this day, I will NOT use Helvetica Medium unless it is a spec for a job. I'm just now getting to the point where I can look at Clarendon and Optima again . As far as computer "tools" goes, I for one would be lost without my Wacom tablet. Like an airbrush or a paintbrush, it is a vital tool when working with bits and bytes. Sure it also takes a bit of a learning curve, but so did your first Langnickel.
The first time I watched a person at the keyboard, using Omega, I was astounded. I had been using it for a few months and familiarizing myself with it. I went to a show in Las Vegas and asked the guy a question. He showed me how to do some simple procedure. WHILE doing that, he hit a few keys. Shift, F5, Alt, F10, SpaceBar, F11, Alt, Select... My head was spinning and I was hooked. I had him repeat a step, tell me why he did this or that, literally bugged the hell out of him. He wanted to sell the program, not teach me the tricks (he was patient though)! Let's face it, most of us like to show off our skills a little bit.
Jeff, that's why your concept for your meet will work. None of us use this computer in the same manner, just as most of us don't hold a brush the same way. Even something as simple as hitting Alt 0189 to get the ½ character might be as important to someone as the first time they realized that someone uses TAPE to make that perfect line at the bottom of the letters!
Go for it!
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Go for it Jeff & Co.! And if you have any needs, there are lots on this board who are willing to help, I'm sure. I'm sure there are lots of questions out there. When you get closer to the actual day, you could have people post here or e-mail direct to you with questions. "I have always wondered about how to get true colors on my screen." or "What are some ways to get layers of vinyl registered on top of each other?" or whatever....everything from the novice to the advanced. Then you could figure out how to address those issues with each system. Maybe have different systems demonstrated to do the same task (sort of like design and cost workshop in SignCraft) and see how they compare that way. I know we have been thinking about expanding into other areas and would not only like to compare, but just see what different systems can do, pros and cons, etc. and here it from REAL sign people, not salesmen on a mission to "sign you up". I think it's a great idea! You have the ball, now run with it!! Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Jeff...go for it!!!!
I think many people don't go to Letterhead meets because they are intimidated by the "brush People" and gigure that there is nothing for them there! So a Computer heavy meet will get them started.
Even dyed in the wool brush guys like me would love to learn more tricks with Corel, PhotoShop, Illustrator, etc.
Posted by Jay Allen (Member # 195) on :
Hey how did I get dragged into this? And the only people who know about me, Jane Fonda and my Jazzercise must be those peeking in the window (Mike Meyer). How do I look in a leotard, Meyer?
Jeff, I have 6,500 square feet of building (as you well know) if you want to co-op this 'thing' you want to do. You may need it if the crowd gets too big. With the router here at the shop AND the vinyl AND the access to paint, it could be a very good learning experience for many - and the chance to score a few tips for those of us who've learned ALL the disciplines of signmaking but are still hungry for more knowledge.
If you want to do it all yourself, I'll help that way also. (It's a lot of work - so be prepared to be down for about two weeks of labor just to get ready!!)
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
Wink! You look FAB Jay, Justh Fab!
Instaed of Letterhead t-shirts for this meet...PINK SHORTS so we got something stylish to wear at a Computer! It's SPECIAL.
Posted by John Meeks (Member # 5081) on :
Jeff, As someone who works for a manufacturer who resently hosted a meet, given the right vendor, you could pull this off with great success. JSI for instance in Atlanta has most brands of plotters, printers and routers. As well as the more popular programs to run them. They have demos on the floor for use and can answer any questions that came up. There should be a distributor close to you that has a similar scope of equipment. You would just have to set the tone of the meet up front with the vendor to keep the purity of it intact. You would also have plenty of product sent to you by manfacturers to use as well. Good Luck! John M. P.S. If you ever want to see how dependent most of us are on our computers, just upplug them for 1 week.
Posted by Ricky Jackson (Member # 5082) on :
I remember showing off Signlab v 2.2 to the guys at a Letterheads meet. I vividly remember those in attendance that busted my chops the most, Mike Sheehan and John Cox being two of them. I had recently written an article for Sign Biz with the theme "Sign Designers of the Future" and it was based on the prediction that the best designers now would soon be using computers to do the same type of work. I got beat up pretty bad but I was right. I told you so! neh neh neh neh neh neh. Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
"Bump" for more input/thoughts...please
Jeff
Posted by Matthew Rolli (Member # 4089) on :
Jeff,
Glad to hear of your interest. I'm certain we'll all gain from your meet. I'd like to offer out help in anyway I can. besides I just found out my brother is the new Monsanto Sales guru out of Dekalb. Ooohh. Dad's going be ****ed he's going to have a flatlander for a son...haha just kidding of course Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Jeff, I think it's a great idea too. But the logistics can be challenging. From a letterhead point of view, I could see a meet like this being focused on a program or 2 like Corel and Illustrator and perhaps touch a little on plotters. The rest of the event can be geared towards large format installations, using vinyl as paint masks, or airbrush cool vinyl effects using spray bombs, etc. At the same time, you can offer an introduction to brush basics and things to encourage us vinyl jockies to pick up a brush and learn about proper selection, use and care of a brush. A full weekend of vinyl would get boring to me. So I would like to see a nice mix of both and top it off with some digital printing basics too
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Steve Luck (Member # 5292) on :
HI Jeff, Where in Illinois is Belvidere? Sounds like a Chicago suburb! Hey I think a Techno-meet would be great!! I too would love to learn more ways to use the computer that would help me make signs more efficently and creatively. I have painted signs, airbrushed and constructed before the computer and as most of us, use the computer as our main tool now. When I saw my first graduated fade on a sign layout on the computer I thought "How cool is that!?!" Now with digital printing, I can get the same effect like my airbrush and do it a lot faster! I still love my airbrush, but hey, this is business.
There is a place for every tool in the sign business and the computer is a great tool. I would like to see anyone who is using SignLab 7 show me their tricks and shortcuts. I used to sell sign-making software in St. Louis when it first took off around 1990. Flexisign, SignLab, and Casmate were the big guns and I learned them all. I am still learning everyday. Name the place and time and you will be amazed how many of us here in the midwest will show up! I am down here 30 miles northeast of St. Louis so let me know if you need any help. Looking forward to my first meet... How about Labor Day weekend? Just a suggestion. Sign-cerely, Steve
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
We’re already getting cranked up about this meet!
This is a for what it’s worth message.
The building that housed our local news paper for several years is being sold. The day before I asked about the interest in a meet of this kind I went to look and some of the remaining stuff left after an auction there...and bought a few things.
The day after bringing up this meet I went back and talked to the owner and he has donated any of the stuff left in the building that could possibly be of use for this meet. There are desks, tables, chairs, (office type and others) all kinds of computers (PC & Mac) and miscellaneous computer accessories (granted the puters are probably obsolete but some of it I can see as useful!)
I then contacted a u-store facility that we do work for and he has donated a place to store any of this stuff until needed!
The thing that I’m most cranked up about is I get to brag about my nephew (Mike) that is going to be a TREMENDOUS help on this whole thing.
I’m admittedly not very computer literate. He tolerates me well!
I want to give you a little background because he’s going to be instrumental in pulling off the technical part of this meet.
Mike just finished his junior year at MSOE (Milwaukee School of Engineering is ranked 5th in the country for CE)
He is majoring in both computer engineering and software engineering, (which from what I understand isn’t all that common) and will have at least one minor. (Mathematics)
This past year he earned 19 credits in each of the three semesters. While school is in session he also works as a UNIX administrator in IT maintaining the schools 31 servers. He’s only the second student to hold that position in the schools history.
Needless to say this is one computer smart kid! Just a little more insight...if you come to this meet...don’t be looking for the “nerd” with a pocket protector...when he was 16 he set (the then) world record for bench pressing and was a standout fullback in high school!
Ok I’ll take a break now from bragging/praising. Other than to say Mike was here over the weekend and has his gears turning...he brought in some switch thing that would enable us to have up to 144 computers connect so everyone could see what was going on on there own monitor. He said he can make all the Ethernet cables we would need.
I know it’s too early to know what the exact setup will be but it’s going to be VERY nice having Mike on the team!
THANKS MIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Jeff Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Sounds GREAT, Jeff! We will all be waiting to hear more as you progress. Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
The other post on here with the vintage signs reminded me....THAT would be a field trip I think EVERYONE would like to see. See if you can convince that guy to give a few guided tours of that place!! And SIGN US UP!
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So, a meet would be in order. As much time as we spent "discussing" the incredible shrinking Avery, maybe they could redeem themselves, and sponsor it. Let me know Jeff, I can help roping in sponsors.![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
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