I was wondering if any of you could give me a quick price comparison on a couple of signs, please.
I am manugacturing and installing two signs... one is for a repeat customer and one is for his acquaintence. The signs are 3mil DiBond, measuring 7 feet high by 18 feet in length and have 4 colors each, using high performance vinyl, no doubt. They have a lift on site for me to use, also, so I do not need to rent one.
To cut to the chase, I am charging $1550.57 for one and $1365.87(for the repeat customer). These prices include materials,tax + installation.
Just out of curiosity... I am asking too much?? I figured that $600 above the material costs to manufacture and install both signs to a metal building with self tapping screws at a height of 16 feet is quite reasonable.
What do ya'll think?? Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Craig
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Craig, You need to get a copy of the signmaker pricing guide. It's available here... http://www.letterhead.com/bookshop/index.html Also, check out... http://estimatesoftware.com/ and download the free ProfitWatch software. These will be 2 great tools to get you on track to proper pricing. Your prices seem low to me, but our shop has a lot of overhead. If I was quoting the job using 1/2" MDO, which is a cheaper substrate, I would estimate the job to be about $1650 per sign. I would outsource the installation to reduce the liability factor and have the client pay the installer directly.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
p.s. The banner looked great!
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Let's see... 7'x18' is 126 square feet, and will require five sheets of dibond (minus the drops). At $1550 that's $12.30/square foot. You're figuring $600 for vinyl (four colors), and labor (layout, application, and installation.) Since these are fairly big, I'm guessing the graphics on them are rather large also, which will probably require paneling, not to mention lining up the graphics on each panel to match when you put them up. All of this is going to eat up a lot of time, not to mention the hassle of carting them to the site and installing them.
Do yourself a favor. Seriously. Triple your price on these; if they don't take it, walk away. This kind of job will burn you badly with how long it will take and how much it will cost, in labor, to get done.
And it's not just that. These people expect these signs to identify and advertise for them - in other words, make them money. Doing them at the price you are suggesting is subsidizing their business at the expense of your own. Why???????
Posted by Craig Shaub (Member # 3119) on :
Thanks for you input Checkers!
I figured that I was being pretty fair.
The reason I chose to use DiBond is because it is lighter than MDO and I don't need to worry about it weathering....
I do have a sign Signwriters Pricing Guide and Estimate software. I tend to adjust the Signwriters prices since they are based on national averages. And as far as Estimate goes I have not had time enough to input all the data, but I suppose that I need to do that sometime soon.
Thanks again.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Craig,
Taking into account different areas and such it seems very low to me. You state 600 bucks above material cost, is tht your cost from the supplier or your company cost which is the actual cost plus your mark up on the materials?
Is that also 600 bucks over and above all labor to "sell" the sign, install the lettering, and load them up and handle them?
and is that 600 bucks over and above the time it will take to install them, not to mention the risk of being 16' above ground, I dont care if they supply the lift or not.
oh and one more question, is that 600 bucks over and above the material cost for BOTH signs? ie 300 bucks a piece?
It sounds to me like you have left a lot of money on the table, but I may be wrong.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
oh btw if you are talking $600 net profit after ALL expenses per sign then I say good job!
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
seems a little low to me but it's hard to say without seeing the copy....if it's nice big easy letters and a silhouette i'd say as long as you can do them both in less than 20 hours....start to finish...with installation extra. i think alot depends on location also.
Posted by Robert Thomas (Member # 1356) on :
Craig, In your heading you have "Cost Of Installations" Then going on about the whole job. If you are asking strictly about the installation charge then you are high. Great if you can get that much though!
Maybe some people misread your question? Was that the total for the whole job or just the install???
Cheers
Posted by Craig Shaub (Member # 3119) on :
Thanks for all of your input friends!!
To answer some of the questions....
The $600 is my profit for manufacturing and installing the signs. My material cost is marked up 10%... I have not been charging to make the signs, actually... especially when I install them. I figure that I will make my money on the install so I can beat the price of Giants in the area like MICHEAL'S SIGNS....I have adopted this philosophy so I can get my foot in the door and help my business to grow, but if I do not start turning a large enough profit then I won't make it.
I priced them out in the Signwriters Priceguide and found that each sign is worth about $2000... without installation. I told my clients that this is what I would normally charge, but since they were repeat clients and supplying the lift. I was willing to cut my costs to installation. they seemed to agree and are not bickering any more.
My business is starting to catch on and take an upswing, so, I feel that it would be wise to stop manufacturing the signs for 10% above material costs... and charge a little more.
My girlfriend is a Corporate Executive at Bombardier Recreational Products(Sea Doo/Ski Doo, Johnson/Evinrude) and she thinks that I have given the signs away for long enough and that I won't last if I continue.
I agree with her, but I don't want to be greedy... I love what I do... that is the fun part, but she does have a valid point.
... Anyone need a snowmobile or personal water craft??? Posted by Mike Kelly (Member # 2037) on :
quote:The $600 is my profit for manufacturing and installing the signs. My material cost is marked up 10%... I have not been charging to make the signs, actually... especially when I install them. I figure that I will make my money on the install so I can beat the price of Giants in the area like MICHEAL'S SIGNS....
Wow! I don't know what to say. Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
Craig, don't take this wrong, but the way you are doing business, next year at this time you will be a "greeter" at Wal-Mart!
Posted by Craig Shaub (Member # 3119) on :
Tony,
No offense taken... I know that I need to earn more than I am currently.
I just have been trying to get established and get work, but now I feel that I should move the bar up a couple of notches because I do not want to end up greeting at Walmart.... Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Craig.....what you are doing is establishing yourself as a cheap sign shop! Once you get that reputation, it will be very hard to get the good jobs that pay well!
As far as doing the signs for the love of the craft...Bulls***! You MUST make a good profit, or: "See ya at WalMart"!!!
Read Monte's Post "Evereyone needs this"
[ February 21, 2004, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Craig Shaub (Member # 3119) on :
Si,
I agree with you completely... I have been replying on Monte's post, too.
At first, I felt that I needed to get a start somewhere... Now, I am at the point where I have an outstanding reputation for Quality, Service and Design and I am getting lots of work because of it.
I have recently established relationships with a Wisconsin State University, James Cape & Sons Construction, Johnsons Wax, Realty Co's, and two Boat Dealers/Marinas....
I feel that the time has come where I no longer should sacrifice my income to get work... I am not a greedy person, but yet, I think that All of Us should be paid for our services.
You said it plain as day... when you said, " If you are getting more than 50% of your bids then you are not charging enough!" How true.
It's like...""when the Sky turned yellow and the Sun was Blue..." "
I try to compare myself to a friend of mine in Santa Monica... Jim Scott at Night Nerwerk Productions, Digital Artwork and Graphic Design. www.nightnerwerk.com
You may be familiar with him or his work seeing how you are in the area. Anyway, when I look at his Client List and I feel that I am as accomplished, then I would feel more comfortable charging the higher prices. I am confident in my skills and abilities, so I guess it is time to move the bar....
Thanks for all of your input!
ps- Do you play Disc Golf?? LaMirada Regional Park(Directions: From I-5, Beach Blvd (Rt. 39) north (past Discovering the World on right) to a left on Rosecrans, to a right on Adelfa (shopping center), to the park (just past Alicante Rd. on the left). 13701 Adelfa Dr.)
and Morley Field, in SanDiego, are sweet courses if you do.
ShaBU
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Used to play golf there many years ago, in fact, played most of the courses in the area ... but my back says no more golf!
[ February 21, 2004, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Craig, please go read Monte jumper's post: "Everyone here need's this"
Posted by Craig Shaub (Member # 3119) on :
Thanks Amy...
I have been back and forth since the weekend. Posted by Craig Shaub (Member # 3119) on :
OOOOOOOps,
My bad... I meant Sheila... sorry about that. Posted by Barb Schilling (Member # 13) on :
10 percent material markup?????
We are in a RETAIL business folks. RETAIL meaning we sell directly to the end user. The RETAIL industry has a 100-500% markup. Take your pick. You should be at lease double the cost on your basic substrate for the sign. Therefore a sheet of MDO sells for $50-60.00, you have to figure it costs $100-120.00 in your pricing.
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